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Thread: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

  1. #31

    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    Namaste,

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalicharan Tuvij View Post
    ... The Battle Of Ten Kings (dasa-rajanya-yuddha) - a battle far greater than even the MahabhArata in import and in scale - where the great Hindu ancestor Sudas Paijavana (think of him as a dhoti-clad Justice Dredd, lol) led from the side of Dharma and won it for us even against great odds...
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaskaran Singh View Post


    Not really...
    kurukShetra army-
    etayA saMkhyayAhyAsan kurupANDavasenayoH
    akShauhiNyo dvijashreShThAH piNDenAShTAdashaiva tAH||1.2.24||

    dAsharAj~na army-
    n� gavy�v� anavo druhy�vashca ShaShT�H shat� suSupuH Sh�Tsah�srA
    ShaShT�r vIr�so �dhi Sh�Dduvoy� v�shv�d�ndrasya vIry� kRt�ni||7.18.14||
    Take it from me, fellas. That battle was of diabolical proportions. Trust me, I was there.

    *watch Jaskaran now complain to his email buddies, "omg, guys, like, omg - I can't believe HDF-Sudas thinks he's the actual Sudas, like, omg, so egotistical, like, omg, guys, like, omg, fo' real, guys, like, omg, like remember what nArada said?...like, omg, guys, like, omg!"

  2. #32
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    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sudas Paijavana View Post
    *watch Jaskaran now complain to his email buddies, "omg, guys, like, omg - I can't believe HDF-Sudas thinks he's the actual Sudas, like, omg, so egotistical, like, omg, guys, like, omg, fo' real, guys, like, omg, like remember what nArada said?...like, omg, guys, like, omg!"
    Yes, like OMG...
    *Warning: bad language
    Shoes
    படைபோர் புக்கு முழங்கும்அப் பாஞ்சசன்னியமும் பல்லாண்டே
    May your pA~nchajanya shankha which reverberates on the battlefield, last thousands upon thousands of years...
    http://archives.mirroroftomorrow.org...anchajanya.jpg

  3. #33

    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaskaran Singh View Post
    namaste,
    I just did some research and found a page which suggests that you apparently may not be completely incorrect in your assumptions.
    This is how the mleccha invaders (Turks, Persians, etc.) used the term Hindu:
    They borrowed Zoros' (mostly their own ancestors) word and added their own little, devious, twist to it. So this abuse of the word "Hindu" by them is plain envy, and frustration of their inability to conquer and destroy Hindus. I'd say, this is how our enemies abused the word "Hindu", rather than saying this is how "Hindu" is abusive of us. Why? Because "Hindu" has roots in Sanskrit "Indu" utilising an aspirated "i".
    Devoid of Zoroastrianism and civilisation, apparently dudes lost their self-respect there as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaskaran Singh View Post
    praNAm,
    Not really...
    kurukShetra army (18 akShauhiNI-s, or around 2,755,620 people)
    etayA saMkhyayAhyAsan kurupANDavasenayoH
    akShauhiNyo dvijashreShThAH piNDenAShTAdashaiva tAH||1.2.24||

    dAsharAj~na army (6,666 people)-
    ní gavyávó anavo druhyávashca ShaShTíH shatÁ suSupuH SháTsahásrA
    ShaShTír vIrÁso ádhi SháDduvoyú víshvédíndrasya vIryÀ kRtÁni||7.18.14|||
    Thank you for pointing this out, I stand corrected on this (the head count scales of these two wars). Even if we question these figures (25 L, really?) no doubt some estimate of scale is indeed apparent.

    ***********
    ***********
    "Indu" went under some other morphisms too. One example is "Bindu".
    Bindu: drop, point, ajna chakra, soma.
    Yet another is: "Bindi" which women folk put on their foreheads (again, the 3rd eye, ajna chakra).
    That Bindu and Bindi are sound morphisms becomes evident from their non-derivation from any sandhi or other rules in Sanskrit.

    ***********
    ***********
    "Indu" is obviously a less understood word and its significance is not grasped fully even by pundits of Hindu Dharma. So, I will not be surprised if it still takes many decades before Hindus themselves are able to understand and visualise this word Hindu/ Indu properly in its full light.

    I also talked about dangers on the existence of Dharma, Hinduism, and India. But I feel ultimately, both- the Eastern Hindu, and the Western Hindu - will have to settle on only one of these three denominations for themselves.

    For Indians, the only choice is: India. Even if it means the silence of atheism reigning supreme at some moment.

    For only then the lost genius of India, the Asura, will rise and devour all Asat, not distinguishing between friend and foe, this and that.

    And once again Man will become God.




    P.S.: Sudas, 'tis called, soma-high
    Greetings in advance for RamNavami. Jai Shri Ram.
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

  4. #34
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    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    Namaste JS ji and Sudas ji

    Kindly stict to the discussion. I am following this thread to learn.

    K T has praised parsi's and has pesented his views while Jaskaran is not rulling out the hidden negativity in the word Hindu

    After reading K T, I wonder why should we have to stick on o loan word "Hindu" than the original word Indu.

    We can always argue, what's there in the name. But isn't pronoiciation very important in Sanskrit.

    Agreed, we might not change things over night but accepting to the fate without any try means we aren't proud of our History.
    Anirudh...

  5. #35
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    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalicharan Tuvij View Post
    Zoroastrianism (the religion of pArsis) and Vedanta (of us) are nothing but siblings having the Vedic Dharma as their common Father and Mother.
    praNAm,

    You do realize that the majUsI creed begins with "naismi daevo" which means that they give shrAp to the deva-s, right? You consider that to be "siblings" with vedAntI-s?
    படைபோர் புக்கு முழங்கும்அப் பாஞ்சசன்னியமும் பல்லாண்டே
    May your pA~nchajanya shankha which reverberates on the battlefield, last thousands upon thousands of years...
    http://archives.mirroroftomorrow.org...anchajanya.jpg

  6. #36

    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    Namaste,

    One of my posts is scheduled to appear after post#32, where I've dealt with some of these issues. In this, I will further expand on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    After reading K T, I wonder why should we have to stick on o loan word "Hindu" than the original word Indu.
    It's merely one aspirated "i" brother. Sanskrit has seen far greater changes.
    We can always argue, what's there in the name. But isn't pronoiciation very important in Sanskrit.
    As I said in my last post, "Bindu" also comes from a sound change in "Indu" (and not from any rule in Sanskrit), so will you ban this word also. Or may be not, simply because the sound change is "proved to have happened" in India only?
    Agreed, we might not change things over night but accepting to the fate without any try means we aren't proud of our History.
    Better conserve our energies for things fruitful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaskaran Singh View Post

    praNAm,

    You do realize that the majUsI creed begins with "naismi daevo" which means that they give shrAp to the deva-s, right? You consider that to be "siblings" with vedAntI-s?
    "naismi daevo", as I explained it briefly in an earlier post, has the import:
    "Destroy harmony of existence with things that cannot coexist with you", if you can see beyond being just literal (and a bit polemical?).

    Brahma of Vedanta, however, is present in everyone and everywhere, even inside our enemies.

    Both these standpoints are completely true in isolation, this is the Vedic understanding. Therefore, we need both.

    I will keep repeating this point, don't worry, till someone gets it in the end.

    Meanwhile, if I missed saying this:
    Hindu is given to us by pArsis who were(are) another (post)Vedic people, and pArsis should not be confused with fArsis who came to India as Mughals, and thus continued calling us Hindus.

    Pranam.
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

  7. #37
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    Smile Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    Jaskaran ji and K T ji,

    Apparently aren't we doing a reverse hypothesis here.

    We dont seem to have any reference of the word Hindu in our ancient Sanskrit scripts. Also it has a Persian origin. No matter who Persians are, when we have the very word Indu in Sanskrit scriptures why do we care about the loaned / forced word.

    I get a feeling we try exonerate Persians to accommodatte Hindu into the folds of our religion. But why ?


    Indu or Sanatana is the way to go than relying on Hindu.
    Anirudh...

  8. #38

    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    Namaste.

    There are many, many, things that I am not willing to share right now, for I believe the time is not ripe yet.

    Ultimately, however, I do see the point of having the freedom to choose ones own name, instead of relying on terms given by others no matter however much Vedic in origin or not.

    So, the focal point is this word, "Indu". Why should we accept it?

    Why should we, of all Devatā-s in our pantheon, relate ourselves, for the denomination, to Indra only?

    Where is the evidence, if there at all, that our Rishis called themselves as Indu-s?

    However, we know that we have always used BhArata and BhArati for self-identity.

    But, who is this BhArata and this BhArati?

    Well, there have been illustrious kings, chakravartins, going by that name. There was a Vedic tribe, a very prominent one, also of name BhArata.

    But ultimately it is our spirituality, our worldview, that gives us a meaningful insight into the meaning of these two words.

    Though I have touched on this earlier, briefly, I will rather avoid dwelling on it right now. Except, emphasising on that there is a point where BhArata meets BhArati. That point is to be understood (again, IMO) as Indu.

    In Indu, both BhArata and BhArati are simultaneously present.

    Then, it might be asked here: why the hell we don't remember all this?

    Because, this was a real, long, long time ago.

    Another hint that I will leave here is, the whole world was dominated and in a way controlled by Aryan armies from India. India, therefore, when seen through the eyes of the world, was an icon, murthy, of Lord Indra.

    On my side, I will confess here:
    1) I am not being an apologetic for the Hindu word. I am a free person.
    2) There is a duplication in having both Hindu and Indian, when both mean the same Indu thing. Rather, I have slightly inclined on the side of doing away with Hindu altogether and keeping only Indian (and BhAratiya in Sanskrit). So there is no question of being apologetic or anything.
    3) There could be an opposition from anti-Vedic quarters, as I see, regarding my readings. Well, I have no sympathies with them. And no, not a chance of "Sanatana Dharma", for me.


    Shri Ram.
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

  9. #39
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    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalicharan Tuvij View Post
    Namaste.

    There are many, many, things that I am not willing to share right now, for I believe the time is not ripe yet.

    Ultimately, however, I do see the point of having the freedom to choose ones own name, instead of relying on terms given by others no matter however much Vedic in origin or not.

    So, the focal point is this word, "Indu". Why should we accept it?

    Why should we, of all Devatā-s in our pantheon, relate ourselves, for the denomination, to Indra only?

    Where is the evidence, if there at all, that our Rishis called themselves as Indu-s?

    However, we know that we have always used BhArata and BhArati for self-identity.

    But, who is this BhArata and this BhArati?

    Well, there have been illustrious kings, chakravartins, going by that name. There was a Vedic tribe, a very prominent one, also of name BhArata.

    But ultimately it is our spirituality, our worldview, that gives us a meaningful insight into the meaning of these two words.

    Though I have touched on this earlier, briefly, I will rather avoid dwelling on it right now. Except, emphasising on that there is a point where BhArata meets BhArati. That point is to be understood (again, IMO) as Indu.

    In Indu, both BhArata and BhArati are simultaneously present.

    Then, it might be asked here: why the hell we don't remember all this?

    Because, this was a real, long, long time ago.

    Another hint that I will leave here is, the whole world was dominated and in a way controlled by Aryan armies from India. India, therefore, when seen through the eyes of the world, was an icon, murthy, of Lord Indra.

    On my side, I will confess here:
    1) I am not being an apologetic for the Hindu word. I am a free person.
    2) There is a duplication in having both Hindu and Indian, when both mean the same Indu thing. Rather, I have slightly inclined on the side of doing away with Hindu altogether and keeping only Indian (and BhAratiya in Sanskrit). So there is no question of being apologetic or anything.
    3) There could be an opposition from anti-Vedic quarters, as I see, regarding my readings. Well, I have no sympathies with them. And no, not a chance of "Sanatana Dharma", for me.


    Shri Ram.
    What's funny is that even in Urdu we use bhArat for India, like in the following map (بھارت is written in huge print):
    படைபோர் புக்கு முழங்கும்அப் பாஞ்சசன்னியமும் பல்லாண்டே
    May your pA~nchajanya shankha which reverberates on the battlefield, last thousands upon thousands of years...
    http://archives.mirroroftomorrow.org...anchajanya.jpg

  10. #40
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    Thumbs Up Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    In Indu, both BhArata and BhArati are simultaneously present.
    Namaste K T ji,

    Thank you very much for the informative post. When ever you feel the time has arrived, kindly explain how Indu encompasses BhArata and BhArati. Better yet, you can guide us to figure it out by ourselves.

    As of now, I term our nation as Bharat and our Dharma as Indu / Sanaatana (but definitely not Hindu ) Dharma.

    Namaste Jaskaran ji,

    Urdu has no place in the discussion as it is an off shoot rather something which reminds us how we are still slaves to our regrettable past.

    No offense intended or taken.
    Anirudh...

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