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Thread: Let's collect not ISKCON-related VAISHNAVA sites here, pls.

  1. #11
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    Re: Let's collect not ISKCON-related VAISHNAVA sites here, pls.

    Why only Iskcon?
    Gaudiya Mat and all its braches, not only Iskcon, are also no traditional Gaudiya Vaishnavism.


    As a raganuga bhakti sadhaka Bhaktisiddhanta should have gotten something very important from Gaurakisora Das Babaji, if he were his disciple,namely the chain of gurus - guru-parampara - whichshould lead him in Caitanya lila to an associate of Sri Caitanya,
    instead of saying that Gaurakisora Das Babaji was the disciple of Bhaktivinoda.
    Rather, Bhaktivinoda worshipped Gaura Kisora and approached him for bhekha (initiation in the renounced order).
    Gaurakisora took bhekha from Bhagavat das Baba, the bhekh-chela of Siddha Jagannatha das Baba.
    Regarding Bhaktisiddhanta's version of his so called guru-parampara, here it is his version:

    1.Sanatana Gosvami was actually the disciple of Vidyavacaspati.

    2. Rupa Gosvami was a disciple of Sanatana Gosvami.

    3. Jiva Gosvami was a disciple of Rupa Gosvami.

    4. Raghunatha das Gosvami was a disciple of Yadunandana Acarya (not of Jiva Gosvami).

    5. Narottama Das Thakura was a disciple of Lokanatha Gosvami, (neither of Raghunatha das Gosvami, nor of Krsna das Kaviraja as Bhaktisidhanta Sarasvati pretends.

    6. Visvanatha Cakravarti was a disciple of Radha Ramana Cakravarti and never met his would-be guru Narottama, for they lived a century apart.

    7. Baladeva Vidyabhusana was a disciple of Radha Damodara Gosvami, not of Visvanatha Cakravarti.

    8. Jagannatha das Babaji lived 150 years after his would-be guru Baladeva Vidyabhusana.

    9. Bhaktivinoda was a disciple of Vipin Bihari Gosvami, not of Jagannath das Babaji.
    10. Gaurakisora Das Babaji was not the disciple of Bhaktivinoda.

    This invented parampara of Bhaktissidhanta is a forgery in the history of Gaudiya Vaishnavism, which was later proclaimed as "bhagavat" parampara - a chain of realized souls - bhagavats.
    Any authentic chain is "bhagavat" parampara and this chain is given by the real guru in the siddha pranali ceremony.
    This ceremony is unknown, and even insulted, in all the branches of Gaudiya math (especially by "Narayan Maharaja") including Iskcon.

  2. #12
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    Re: Let's collect not ISKCON-related VAISHNAVA sites here, pls.

    Another website that is about another Gaudiya Organization is: http://scsmath.com

    I am trying to get into contact with them for initiation.
    sarva-dharman parityajya
    mam ekam saranam vraja
    aham tvam sarva-papebhyo
    moksayisyami ma sucah

    Hare Krsna!

  3. #13

    Re: Let's collect not ISKCON-related VAISHNAVA sites here, pls.

    Quote Originally Posted by anadi View Post
    NONSENSE
    That you for that load of blasphamy. Rascal No.1...

  4. #14
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    Re: Let's collect not ISKCON-related VAISHNAVA sites here, pls.

    Quote Originally Posted by atmarama108 View Post
    That you for that load of blasphamy. Rascal No.1...
    This is a typical argument for new indoctrinated Christian followers, when one presents the forgeries in Christianity.

    It is nice that is a growing awareness about the ISKcon deviation from Gaudiya Vaishnavism, and is still sad that there is but little awareness about the deviation of Gaudiya Mat and all its braches (not only Iskcon) from Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

    This deviation, hat its roots, as previously stated, in the founder of Gaudiya Mat, Bhaktissidhanta Saraswati.

    Let see some other forgeries linked to the founder of Gaudiya Mat, to understand why his followers deviate from the traditional Gaudiya Vaishnavism:

    5) Why do all Gaudiya Matha-chronicles give different dates and places of Bhaktisiddhanta's supposed initiation, some saying that he received Nrsimha mantra, as if Gaura Kisora dasa Babaji was a worshipper of Nrsimha?

    6) Where did Bhaktisiddhanta get his brahmana-thread from?
    Gaura Kisora das Babaji did not wear it (as the photos show), for he was born a vaisya.

    The proof that brahmana-initiation does not exist in reality is that there is a separate 10-syllable Gopala Mantra for brahmanas and an 18-syllable mantra for non-brahmanas.
    This means that 2nd initiation is not a so called brahmana-initiation.
    And if you do become a brahmana through such initiation, then why not receive the 10-syllable mantra for the brahmanas, instead of the 18-syllable mantra they now receive?

    Who is a brahmana?
    a) In ISKCON and other Gaudiya Matha branches, we see almost everyone ultimately receiving brahmana-initiation.
    But which varnasrama-society (as they preach to reinstate) has only brahmanas?
    Even from their viewpoint "we judge people on their qualities and not on their birth," most of Bhaktivedanta's followers are not qualified brahmanas. ISKCON/Gaudiya Math "brahmana"-women leave their husbands, have children from different men (this is lower than a sweeper's wife in India), and, what to speak of knowing Sanskrit, the men don't even know Hindi or Bengali, or even what the weather is like in India. No one knows even basic sadacara, the practices of cleanliness and chastity.
    90% of western members are businessmen (" some kind of vaisyas" perhaps?).

    Quality and birth are anyway non-different:

    karanam gunasango 'sya sadasadyonijanmasu (Gita, 13.22).

    "The cause of birth in either a good or a bad species is one's attachment to a certain psychological quality (culture, habit)."

    If you are born as a brahmana, it means you have attachement for this way of life, and you also deserved to attain it.

    In this connection the most of Bhaktisiddhanta's Western followers are not so called brahmanas by quality.

    The brahmana campaign of Bhaktissidhanta Saraswati, to present himself as a brahmana, although he was not one of them, and later to produce brahmanas industrially, must have had as background a certain envy against the brahmanas, as well as the wish of social recognition.
    Otherwise a Vaishanva should have no interest in social status. The attitude of Bhaktissidhanta was in this case a disrespect for the instruction of Sri Caitanya regarding the self identification of a Vaishnava with any social status of the Varana-ashram system:

    naham vipro na ca nara-patir napi vaisyo na sudro
    naham varni na ca grha-patir no vanastho yatir va
    kintu prodyan-nikhila-paramananda-purnamrtabdher
    gopi-bhartuh pada-kamalayor dasa-dasanudasah

    I am no learned Brahmana - naham vipro
    I am no leader, warrior (kshatria) - na ca nara-patir
    neither merchant (vaishya) - napi vaisyo neither labourer - na sudro

    Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu has taught His followers trnad api sunicena "One must consider oneself lower than a blade of grass," not considering and tagging himself equal to a brahmana.

    Envy is the cause of the mentality: "Nowadays brahmanas are full of faults, so now we will launch our own varnasrama-system."

    A human being can and should not do that, for it is created by God Himself, and He is the highest authority (caturvarnyam maya srstam "The four castes are created by Me (God, Krsna),") and not by the human being like Bhaktissdhanta Saraswati, who wanted to make his own varNa-ashrama system.

    'Religious principles are created by God Himself"
    dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam, (Srimad Bhagavata, 6.3.19)
    Envy of brahmanas will cost dearly, for Sri Krsna Himself says in the Bhagavatam (10.64.41-42):

    vipram krtagasam api naiva druhyata mamakah
    ghnantam bahusapantam va namaskuruta nityasah
    yathaham praname vipran anukalam samahitah
    tatha namata yuyam ca ye 'nyatha me sa danda-bhak

    "O My relatives! Do not harm a brahmana, even if he mistreats you!
    Even if he is a sinner, you should still bow down to him.
    Even I bow down to the brahmanas. Whoever acts otherwise is punishable by Me!"

    The Lord further tells Srideva in Srimad Bhagavata (10.86.53):

    brahmano janmana sreyan sarvesam praninam iha
    tapasa vidyaya tustya kim u mat kalaya yutah

    "The brahmana is superior to all living beings by birth, let alone when he is austere, learned, content and devoted to Me."

    dusprajña aviditvaivam avajananty asuyavah
    gurum mam vipram atmanam arccadavijyadrstayah (S.Bhag. 10.86.55)

    "Men of crooked understanding, who do not know this, disrespect a brahmana and are envious of him, who is identical with Me and their very self."

  5. #15

    Re: Let's collect not ISKCON-related VAISHNAVA sites here, pls.

    There was an interesting article in the India Divine forums:

    Madhava writes:
    The fact is that, though the acaryas from Laksmipati upwards are mentioned, most of the Gaudiyas who are supposed to honor them as their worshipable succession of predecessors hardly know who the respected acaryas are. While the writings of the Gosvamis and their followers are given paramount importance in the Gaudiya tradition, practically no emphasis is laid on studying the writings of even Sri Madhva Acarya, what to speak of the rest in his line up to Laksmipati.

    Most Gaudiyas are not concerned over the parampara beyond Nityananda, Advaita and Caitanya, and the theme hardly merits any discussion among them. Why diksa / Why the emphasis on post-Mahaprabhu time?
    Well every Guru parampara and sect has a different emphasis, viewpoint, and evolves their own lineage and tradition. And obviously their would not be sectarian differences if everybody believed in the same things in the exact same way. I find it humorous that someone is writing complete heresy and rejection against Gaudiya Matha in a thread basically bashing Iskcon for fanaticism. Talk about fanatical!

    It's simply unrealistic to expect another acharya or Guru parampara, even if descended from your own...to actually pay obeisances to yours.


    Certainly the "Christian converts" do not make up the entire Matha or explain it's divergent tradition. As for scandals and falls from grace, Iskcon is certainly not alone. These problems have afflicted every religion and every sect. So please, don't patronize the readers here. This is Kali Yuga.
    ----------------------------------


    Where did Bhaktisiddhanta get his brahmana-thread from? Gaura Kisora das Babaji did not wear it (as the photos show), for he was born a vaisya.
    You are making a judgment about someone's CASTE? And expect to be taken seriously? Are you SERIOUS?

    "Even simply saying out loud the caste of a sri vaishnava is a sin."
    ~Shrila Saccidananda Thakura Bhaktivinoda, Navadvipa-dhama-mahatmya, Chp 15. Last Instructions of Shri Ramanujacharya



    And from my "non-Vaishnava" background which respected the Vaishnav sants of the Ramanujacharya:

    ਜਾਣਹੁ ਜੋਤਿ ਨ ਪੂਛਹੁ ਜਾਤੀ ਆਗੈ ਜਾਤਿ ਨ ਹੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    जाणहु जोति न पूछहु जाती आगै जाति न हे ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Jāṇhu joṯ na pūcẖẖahu jāṯī āgai jāṯ na he. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    Recognize the Lord's Light within all, and do not consider social class or status; there are no classes or castes in the world hereafter. ||1||Pause||
    ~Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji p. 349

    ---------------------------------

    ਅਧਮ ਚੰਡਾਲੀ ਭਈ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਣੀ ਸੂਦੀ ਤੇ ਸ੍ਰੇਸਟਾਈ ਰੇ ॥
    अधम चंडाली भई ब्रहमणी सूदी ते स्रेसटाई रे ॥
    Aḏẖam cẖandālī bẖa▫ī barahmaṇī sūḏī ṯe sarėstā▫ī re.
    The lowly outcaste becomes a Brahmin, and the untouchable sweeper becomes pure and sublime.
    ~SGGS Ji ang 381

    ---------------------------------

    ਬ੍ਰਹਮਨ ਬੈਸ ਸੂਦ ਅਰੁ ਖ੍ਯ੍ਯਤ੍ਰੀ ਡੋਮ ਚੰਡਾਰ ਮਲੇਛ ਮਨ ਸੋਇ ॥
    ब्रहमन बैस सूद अरु ख्यत्री डोम चंडार मलेछ मन सोइ ॥
    Barahman bais sūḏ ar kẖa▫yṯarī dom cẖandār malecẖẖ man so▫e.
    Whether he is a Brahmin, a Vaisya, a Soodra, or a Kshatriya; whether he is a poet, an outcaste, or a filthy-minded person,

    ਹੋਇ ਪੁਨੀਤ ਭਗਵੰਤ ਭਜਨ ਤੇ ਆਪੁ ਤਾਰਿ ਤਾਰੇ ਕੁਲ ਦੋਇ ॥੧॥
    होइ पुनीत भगवंत भजन ते आपु तारि तारे कुल दोइ ॥१॥
    Ho▫e punīṯ bẖagvanṯ bẖajan ṯe āp ṯār ṯāre kul ḏo▫e. ||1||
    he becomes pure, by meditating on the Lord God. He saves himself, and the families of both his parents. ||1||

    ਧੰਨਿ ਸੁ ਗਾਉ ਧੰਨਿ ਸੋ ਠਾਉ ਧੰਨਿ ਪੁਨੀਤ ਕੁਟੰਬ ਸਭ ਲੋਇ ॥
    धंनि सु गाउ धंनि सो ठाउ धंनि पुनीत कुट्मब सभ लोइ ॥
    Ḏẖan so gā▫o ḏẖan so ṯẖā▫o ḏẖan punīṯ kutamb sabẖ lo▫e.
    Blessed is that village, and blessed is the place of his birth; blessed is his pure family, throughout all the worlds.

    ਜਿਨਿ ਪੀਆ ਸਾਰ ਰਸੁ ਤਜੇ ਆਨ ਰਸ ਹੋਇ ਰਸ ਮਗਨ ਡਾਰੇ ਬਿਖੁ ਖੋਇ ॥੨॥
    जिनि पीआ सार रसु तजे आन रस होइ रस मगन डारे बिखु खोइ ॥२॥
    Jin pī▫ā sār ras ṯaje ān ras ho▫e ras magan dāre bikẖ kẖo▫e. ||2||
    One who drinks in the sublime essence abandons other tastes; intoxicated with this divine essence, he discards sin and corruption. ||2||

    ਪੰਡਿਤ ਸੂਰ ਛਤ੍ਰਪਤਿ ਰਾਜਾ ਭਗਤ ਬਰਾਬਰਿ ਅਉਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
    पंडित सूर छत्रपति राजा भगत बराबरि अउरु न कोइ ॥
    Pandiṯ sūr cẖẖaṯarpaṯ rājā bẖagaṯ barābar a▫or na ko▫e.
    Among the religious scholars, warriors and kings, there is no other equal to the Lord's devotee.

    ਜੈਸੇ ਪੁਰੈਨ ਪਾਤ ਰਹੈ ਜਲ ਸਮੀਪ ਭਨਿ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਜਨਮੇ ਜਗਿ ਓਇ ॥੩॥੨॥
    जैसे पुरैन पात रहै जल समीप भनि रविदास जनमे जगि ओइ ॥३॥२॥
    Jaise purain pāṯ rahai jal samīp bẖan Raviḏās janme jag o▫e. ||3||2||
    As the leaves of the water lily float free in the water, says Ravi Daas, so is their life in the world. ||3||2||
    ~SGGS Ji ang 858

    ---------------------------------


    I had to stop there because right away you proved yourself to be a non-spiritual person in your condemnation of a school of Vaishnavism noted to it's belief and desire is raising the whole world to status of authentic Bhaktas and brahmanas and not by birth but by actual holiness.

    Thanks for your transparency. A Pure Vaishnav is nondifferent from Bhagavan, and if you are criticizing Pure Vaishnav saints in your condemnation of both Gaudiya Math and Iskcon, I feel sorry for you. That is not at all the attitude of a spiritual person.


    ਸੋ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਜੋ ਬਿੰਦੇ ਹਰਿ ਸੇਤੀ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਾਤਾ ॥
    सो ब्राहमणु ब्रहमु जो बिंदे हरि सेती रंगि राता ॥
    So barāhmaṇ barahm jo binḏe har seṯī rang rāṯā.
    He alone is a Brahmin, who knows the Lord Brahma, and is attuned to the Love of the Lord.
    ~SGGS Ji ang 68

    --------------------------------

    tomara nama suni' haya svapaca 'pavana'
    alaukika sakti tomara na yaya kathana
    "Simply by hearing Your holy name, dog-eaters become holy saints. Your uncommon potencies cannot be described in words."
    ~Sri Caitanya Caritamrita Madhya 18.124

    ---------------------------------

    yan-namadheya-sravananukirtanad
    yat-prahvanad yat-smaranad api kvacit
    svado 'pi sadyah savanaya kalpate
    kutah punas te bhagavan nu darsanat
    To say nothing of the spiritual advancement of persons who see the Supreme Person face to face, even a person born in a family of dog-eaters becomes immediately eligible to perform Vedic sacrifices if he once utters the holy name of the Supreme Personality of Godhead or chants about Him, hears about His pastimes, offers Him obeisances or even remembers Him.
    ~Sri Caitanya Caritamrita Madhya 18.125



    May Bhagavan bless the True and Holy Saints, Satguru's, Avataras and Pure Vaishnavs who bring such wonderful teachings of Light into a suffering and divided world. I offer my pranams and bow and touch the dust of their holy feet. This Gaudiya Matha is sooo great, your criticisms won't ever be able to touch it. Instead you are throwing kalank all over yourself.

  6. #16

    Re: Let's collect not ISKCON-related VAISHNAVA sites here, pls.

    Some very wise words from an authentic Satguru.


    दानु देइ करि पूजा करना ॥
    Ḏān ḏe▫e kar pūjā karnā.
    They give you donations and worship you.

    ਲੈਤ ਦੇਤ ਉਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਮੂਕਰਿ ਪਰਨਾ ॥
    लैत देत उन्ह मूकरि परना ॥
    Laiṯ ḏeṯ unĥ mūkar parnā.
    You take from them, and then deny that they have given anything to you.

    ਜਿਤੁ ਦਰਿ ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਹੈ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਜਾਣਾ ॥
    जितु दरि तुम्ह है ब्राहमण जाणा ॥
    Jiṯ ḏar ṯumĥ hai barāhmaṇ jāṇā.
    That door, through which you must ultimately go, O Brahmin -

    ਤਿਤੁ ਦਰਿ ਤੂੰਹੀ ਹੈ ਪਛੁਤਾਣਾ ॥੧॥
    तितु दरि तूंही है पछुताणा ॥१॥
    Ŧiṯ ḏar ṯūʼnhī hai pacẖẖuṯāṇā. ||1||
    at that door, you will come to regret and repent. ||1||

    ਐਸੇ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਡੂਬੇ ਭਾਈ ॥
    ऐसे ब्राहमण डूबे भाई ॥
    Aise barāhmaṇ dūbe bẖā▫ī.
    Such Brahmins shall drown, O Siblings of Destiny;

    ਨਿਰਾਪਰਾਧ ਚਿਤਵਹਿ ਬੁਰਿਆਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    निरापराध चितवहि बुरिआई ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Nirāprāḏẖ cẖiṯvahi buri▫ā▫ī. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    they think of doing evil to the innocent. ||1||Pause||

    ਅੰਤਰਿ ਲੋਭੁ ਫਿਰਹਿ ਹਲਕਾਏ ॥
    अंतरि लोभु फिरहि हलकाए ॥
    Anṯar lobẖ firėh halkā▫e.
    Within them is greed, and they wander around like mad dogs.

    ਨਿੰਦਾ ਕਰਹਿ ਸਿਰਿ ਭਾਰੁ ਉਠਾਏ ॥
    निंदा करहि सिरि भारु उठाए ॥
    Ninḏā karahi sir bẖār uṯẖā▫e.
    They slander others and carry loads of sin upon their heads.

    ਮਾਇਆ ਮੂਠਾ ਚੇਤੈ ਨਾਹੀ ॥
    माइआ मूठा चेतै नाही ॥
    Mā▫i▫ā mūṯẖā cẖeṯai nāhī.
    Intoxicated by Maya, they do not think of the Lord.

    ਭਰਮੇ ਭੂਲਾ ਬਹੁਤੀ ਰਾਹੀ ॥੨॥
    भरमे भूला बहुती राही ॥२॥
    Bẖarme bẖūlā bahuṯī rāhī. ||2||
    Deluded by doubt, they wander off on many paths. ||2||

    ਬਾਹਰਿ ਭੇਖ ਕਰਹਿ ਘਨੇਰੇ ॥
    बाहरि भेख करहि घनेरे ॥
    Bāhar bẖekẖ karahi gẖanere.
    Outwardly, they wear various religious robes,

    ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬਿਖਿਆ ਉਤਰੀ ਘੇਰੇ ॥
    अंतरि बिखिआ उतरी घेरे ॥
    Anṯar bikẖi▫ā uṯrī gẖere.
    but within, they are enveloped by poison.

    ਅਵਰ ਉਪਦੇਸੈ ਆਪਿ ਨ ਬੂਝੈ ॥
    अवर उपदेसै आपि न बूझै ॥
    Avar upḏesai āp na būjẖai.
    They instruct others, but do not understand themselves.

    ਐਸਾ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣੁ ਕਹੀ ਨ ਸੀਝੈ ॥੩॥
    ऐसा ब्राहमणु कही न सीझै ॥३॥
    Aisā barāhmaṇ kahī na sījẖai. ||3||
    Such Brahmins will never be emancipated. ||3||

    ਮੂਰਖ ਬਾਮਣ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥
    मूरख बामण प्रभू समालि ॥
    Mūrakẖ bāmaṇ parabẖū samāl.
    O foolish Brahmin, reflect upon God.

    ਦੇਖਤ ਸੁਨਤ ਤੇਰੈ ਹੈ ਨਾਲਿ ॥
    देखत सुनत तेरै है नालि ॥
    Ḏekẖaṯ sunaṯ ṯerai hai nāl.
    He watches and hears, and is always with you.

    ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਜੇ ਹੋਵੀ ਭਾਗੁ ॥
    कहु नानक जे होवी भागु ॥
    Kaho Nānak je hovī bẖāg.
    Says Nanak, if this is your destiny,

    ਮਾਨੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਗੁਰ ਚਰਣੀ ਲਾਗੁ ॥੪॥੮॥
    मानु छोडि गुर चरणी लागु ॥४॥८॥
    Mān cẖẖod gur cẖarṇī lāg. ||4||8||
    renounce your pride, and grasp the Guru's Feet. ||4||8||
    ~Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ang 372

  7. #17

    Re: Let's collect not ISKCON-related VAISHNAVA sites here, pls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth108 View Post
    Hi,

    I am deeply interested in Vaishnava philosophy, beliefs, thoughs so I myself search information about it online. But most often I bump into ones that are ISKCON-related. I respect their ways as others' as well. But I would like to get to know great Vaishnava (not ISKCON-related) sites ( homepages, sources, blogs etc.).

    Could we collect some ones here, please?
    If one really wants to delve into non-IGM (Iskcon/Gaudiya Math) Vaisnava thought, they need to move away from the easily accessible (ebooks published by vedabase.net and purebhakti.com, etc.) get serious, scrape some pennies together and buy some actual printed books.

    Of course, a built-in disadvantage of this approach is that you will be unarmed when it comes to cutting and pasting slokas in a rapid-fire attempt to crush your (other Vaisnava) opponent, thus no longer being able to take advantage of the juicy op to commit one of the "ten offenses" in the chanting of the holy name.

    In fact, you can even have the Srimad Bhagavata, Chaitanya-Charitamrita and never even have to listen to Srila Prabhupada, Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati or Srila Narayana Maharaja at all! And you don't have to become a Mayavadi either!

    Here is the Srimad-Bhagavata translated by Swami Tapasyananda which I have found to be very enjoyable reading.. http://www.amazon.com/Srimad-Bhagavata-Holy-Book-God/dp/8178230461/ref=sr_1_42?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1289212423&sr=1-42 Yeah, yeah, he's from the Ramakrishna Math, but check this verse out..

    "Philosophers who accept a fundamental difference between Iswara and Jiva contend that, as the Atman is under the spell of Avidya (Ignorance) from eternity, he can never free himself from ignorance without the help of another centre of intelligence who is ever free from ignorance. That centre of intelligence is Iswara, and He is different from the Jiva". ~Lord Krishna to Uddhava, Skanda XI, Chapter 22, Verse 10

    One can also look into OBL Kapoor's books.. http://www.exoticindiaart.com/book/details/IDE915/ Though originally a disciple of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, I believe he broke away from the Gaudiya Math, though I don't know the story connected to that. His book "The Saints of Vraja" is curiously devoid of the usual IGM line of acaryas.

  8. #18
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    Re: Let's collect not ISKCON-related VAISHNAVA sites here, pls.

    There was an interview on Hinduism Today from an acharya of Sri Vallabha sampradaya, he said that the philosophy of the Srimad Bhagavatam is more in line with the advaita of Kashmir Shaivism than that of the advaita of Shankaracharya (mayavada).

    Any thoughts on this?

    edit: I have found the article:
    http://www.hinduismtoday.com/modules...nkara+vallabha
    Last edited by Sahasranama; 08 November 2010 at 06:23 AM.

  9. #19
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    Re: Let's collect not ISKCON-related VAISHNAVA sites here, pls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harjas Kaur View Post
    Where did Bhaktisiddhanta get his brahmana-thread from? Gaura Kisora das Babaji did not wear it (as the photos show), for he was born a vaisya.

    You are making a judgment about someone's CASTE? And expect to be taken seriously? Are you SERIOUS?
    You did not answer the question. Instead of it, you ask rhetoric questions.

    The point is the mixing of Vaishnavism with the social system, forwarded by Bhaktisiddhanta, a mixing which is against Vaishanvism and varna-ashram.

    Bhaktisiddhanta was envious on the Brahmanas, and wanted to be one of them, he wanted a prestigious social status. He might have thought about that for a long time, until he came up with some sort of system of making brahmanas,
    incorporated in the Vaishnavas Diksha,
    which never existed before, than a Brahmana is born as a Brahmana.
    His invention is against the injunctions in the shastra, and
    against the teachings of Sri Caitanya’s,
    as can be seen from my previous post.

    Bhaktisiddhanta preached extensively against the brahmanas, which is against the injunction of the shastra:

    The Lord spoke to Srideva in Srimad Bhagavatam (10.86.53):

    brāhmaṇo janmanā śreyān sarveṣām prāṇinām iha
    tapasā vidyayā tuṣṭyā kim u mat-kalayā yutaḥ

    Who is born as a Brahmana ist the best of all beings in this (material world)- brāhmaṇo janmanā śreyān sarveṣām prāṇinām iha
    What to say about his austerity, knowledge, contentment - kim u tapasā vidyayā tuṣṭyā
    he is endowed with meditation about me - kalayā mat yutaḥ

    duṣprajñā aviditvaivam avajānanty asūyavaḥ
    guruḿ māḿ vipram ātmānam arcādāv ijya-dṛṣṭayaḥ (S.Bhag. 10.86.55)

    "Persons whose understanding is corrupt and lacking knowledge – duṣa prajñā evam aviditva
    does not respect and envy the learned Brahmanas - avajānanty asūyavaḥ vipram
    (who are) the worshipful Form of Guru und and Myself – arcādāu guruḿ māḿ
    (who are ) my soul- ātmānam
    and whose appearance is worshipful - dṛṣṭayaḥ ijya."

    i) Şrimad Bhagavatam (7.11.13)says that „a second born“ (Brahmana) has to be (first) born in a family, which over the generations has underwent the samskara purification rites - saḿskārā yatrāvicchinnāḥ sa dvijo.

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    Re: Let's collect not ISKCON-related VAISHNAVA sites here, pls.

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namasté Sahasranama

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahasranama View Post
    There was an interview on Hinduism Today from an acharya of Sri Vallabha sampradaya, he said that the philosophy of the Srimad Bhagavatam is more in line with the advaita of Kashmir Shaivism than that of the advaita of Shankaracharya (mayavada).
    Any thoughts on this?
    If we view the śrīmad bhāgavataṁ mahāpurāṇa wisdom to that of kaśmir śaivism one whould need to know the areas of comparision.
    Hence I can do no justice to this question without due consideration of what to compare.

    Yet ādi¹ śaṃkara-ji's view of advaita vedānta ( some call śāntabrahmavāda) is different then kaśmir śaivism. I say this without
    judgement of it being better, good, bad, or the like.

    There are several areas of difference:
    • In śāntabrahmavāda there is a view that brahman is niskriya (inactive) vs. brahman with spanda ( throb ) see this HDF Post if you are interested: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=53031&postcount=5
      • Followers are sometimes called brahmavādin-s or advaitavādin
    • In śāntabrahmavāda māyā is neither real or unreal ; In kaśmir śaivism the universe is perfectly real and māyā is the play and display of śakti.
      • Some even say the universe is mithyā ( false) ; In kaśmir śaivism the universe is śiva-rūpa ( the form of śiva, the Supeme, Consciousness)

    • In śāntabrahmavāda the notion of adviyā ( ignorance) is removed by vidyā (knowledge); I see only slight differences here, but offer the following for your consideration.
      • This vidyā is the sum of śravaṇa¹ (learning) , manana¹(reflection) and nidihyāsana¹ (deep meditation).
      • In kaśmir śaivism there is intellectual ignorance bauddha¹ ajñāna and there is pauruṣa ajñāna , that ignornce that is inherent in the human.
      • There is the slight difference between the two. In kaśmir śaivism there is the strong value and adherence to knowlege. Knowlege provides the foundation for liberation to stick, stay, not erode. Both bauddha¹ ajñāna and pauruṣa ajñāna must fall away for mukti to bloom completely.
        • The thought is one can achieve samādhi and make it stick, but it will erode if one's knowledge is not firmly established. Like holding a diamond in one's hand and thinking it a broken piece of glass.
    There are a few other points that can be offered, but thought these were germane to the conversation at hand.
    praṇām
    words

    • ādi means beginning, or 1st; some also like to use ādī meaning to shine upon.
    • śravaṇa - the act of hearing ; also that which is heard which is śruti i.e. iti śravaṇāt - because it is so heard or revealed
    • manana -thinking , reflection , thought , intelligence , understanding ; it can also be homage , reverence
    • nididhyāsana - profund deep meditation
    • bauddha relating to intellect or understanding
    • mukti final liberation or emancipation = mokṣa
    Last edited by yajvan; 08 November 2010 at 08:54 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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