Banned
NamasteOriginally Posted by brahma jijnasa
If his translations are false why dont you give the correct translations of Bg 7.24 and 8.21. And unlike yours what he says are quotes from the scriptures and not his personal opinions ,,like your opinion that ramanujacharya and madhavacharya existed before shankaracharya :P
New Member
Namaste
Regarding translations.
The correct ones are those that are translated by vaishnava translators and vaishnava commentators who explained them.
Regarding "opinion that ramanujacharya and madhavacharya existed before shankaracharya".
I did not say that. I said that the Vaishnava bhakti faith as we know it today -- a faith that Brahman is the supreme Person -- existed long before Shankara.
regards
Banned
Namaste
"So you think that in the era before Shankara Vaishnavism was impersonalist, you think that Vaishnavism was not as explained by vaishnava acaryas such as Ramanuja, Madhvacarya and others?" was what you said. I am not a vaishnavaite:P so i dont know how else to intepret this straight statement.
And please give the translation of those two quotes as per your sampradaya system and try to enlighten us
New Member
Pranam Brahma Jijanasa, no one denies that Vishnu is Supreme Brahamn and I think Supreme person doesn't mean Supreme form or man. It is "Param Purusha". In Sanskrit, Purusha means who has entered into Pura [ city ]. As Param Purusha has entered into the city of Prakruti, he has divided himself in countless Jivas by his own sport, he's known as Param Purusha. I only want to say that you can not copyright vaishnawism to some sects only.
Hari himself declares who is the best devotee:
Hari said – “ One who sees God in all the beings and all the beings in God as well as within himself is the best Bhagawata. (devotee of Bhagwan)” [ BP 11.2.45]As I see from Bhagavata Puruna, Vaishnawism means seeing Bhagavan as omnipresent Brahman, not just in form. Seeing him as our self is the authentic worship prescribed in Bhagavata. Oneness is his true worship. Seeing all beings in the self and the self in all beings is what is vaishnawism of Bhagavata. Vaishnawa doesn't see in any difference between Atma,Guru and Ishwara.
" Atman is Himself what is created as the Universe and the creator as the Atman only in the form of Ishwara, one with it, by whom it is coming into existence. He protects it, it is protected by Him as Vishwatma, the All-pervading God, and He also sums up and withdraws it in Himself. Therefore there is nothing else but Atman, described to be Reality. All these things coming, existing or ending – the three states only falsely appear on the true base of Atman." [BP 11.28.6-7]
"One who thinks himself different from the lord, loses the memory of his real self, due to His Maya, and falls prey to the mistaken belief that he is the body. He is then seized by the fear caused by duality, which is the identification with “other” thing than the self. Therefore, the wise should worship God by only the devotion believing that he himself as Atman, his Guru and the God are one!" [BP 11.2.37]
यन्मनसा न मनुते येनाहु: मनो मतम् ।
तदेव ब्रम्ह त्वं विद्धि नेदं यदिदमुपासते । kenopanishad 1.5 ।
" That which is not thought by mind but by which mind thinks, know this alone to be Brahman, not that which is being worshiped here "
Thus Vishnu who is supreme lord should be worshipped, seeing him the self of all Jivas. This is the ultimate Vaishnawism as I know.
Hari NARAYANA
Last edited by hinduism♥krishna; 09 July 2014 at 05:24 AM.
New Member
Namaste
If you truly want to become enlightened...
See any Vaishnava translation and commentary from some of the mainstream vaishnava sampradayas. Gaudiya vaishnava translation and commentary / explanation see at BBT (Bhaktivedanta Book Trust) books or vedabase, it is online.
regards
New Member
Namaste
Well then, you believe in your faith, but these are the Vaishnava forums for mainstream Vaishnavas and not for "Advaitic" vaishnavas.
regards
Mighty Samraat Maurya
Hari Bol!
Dandavats all,
Perhaps the only difference is the Dham's and the final goal?
Vaikuntha dham is predominated by opulence and Goloka is predominated by Sweetness?
But this does not mean souls in Vaikuntha are subject to passion, here is a verse from Bhagavatam.
3.15.20
yat saṅkulaṁ hari-padānati-mātra-dṛṣṭair
vaidūrya-mārakata-hema-mayair vimānaiḥ
yeṣāṁ bṛhat-kaṭi-taṭāḥ smita-śobhi-mukhyaḥ
kṛṣṇātmanāṁ na raja ādadhur utsmayādyaiḥ
The inhabitants of Vaikuṇṭha travel in their airplanes made of lapis lazuli, emerald and gold. Although crowded by their consorts, who have large hips and beautiful smiling faces, they cannot be stimulated to passion by their mirth and beautiful charms.
Prabhupada's Purport
In the material world, opulences are achieved by materialistic persons by dint of their labor. One cannot enjoy material prosperity unless he works very hard to achieve it. But the devotees of the Lord who are residents of Vaikuṇṭha have the opportunity to enjoy a transcendental situation of jewels and emeralds. Ornaments made of gold bedecked with jewels are achieved not by working hard but by the benediction of the Lord. In other words, devotees in the Vaikuṇṭha world, or even in this material world, cannot be poverty-stricken, as is sometimes supposed. They have ample opulences for enjoyment, but they need not labor to achieve them. It is also stated that in the Vaikuṇṭha world the consorts of the residents are many, many times more beautiful than we can find in this material world, even in the higher planets. It is specifically mentioned here that a woman’s large hips are very attractive and they stimulate man’s passion, but the wonderful feature of Vaikuṇṭha is that although the women have large hips and beautiful faces and are decorated with ornaments of emeralds and jewels, the men are so absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness that the beautiful bodies of the women cannot attract them. In other words, there is enjoyment of the association of the opposite sex, but there is no sexual relationship. The residents of Vaikuṇṭha have a better standard of pleasure, so there is no need of sex pleasure.
Is this so?
Thank you,
Jai Sri Radhe-Syam!
"Hare Krisha Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama, Rama Rama Hare Hare" ¬ The Glorious Mahamantra. Chant this 108 times a day and keep Samsara away
New Member
Namaste
That's right, there are no passion in Vaikuntha.
regards
Mighty Samraat Maurya
Hari Bol!
No i asked, if the only difference between Vishnu and Krishna are the Dham's?
"Hare Krisha Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama, Rama Rama Hare Hare" ¬ The Glorious Mahamantra. Chant this 108 times a day and keep Samsara away
NewSoul
Dear.,
There is no difference between Lord Vishnu and Lord Krshna as it is the very same Krshna who is Vishnu! (Trying to find difference in Lord and His forms results in eternal damnation as per one Vaishnava Tradition and few purana vakyas)
The difference is in the Dham's and not in the "Lord" but Lord chooses to display/exhibit certain "qualities" of Him on His own volition for His very own purpose! Understand that, Vaikunta exist for different manifestation of Lord and to engage in experiencing such manifested qualities of Lord!
Hare Krshna!
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