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Thread: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

  1. #21
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    Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottMalaysia View Post
    I think this is getting into discussions of drunkenness instead of alcohol. The things you mention, Eastern Mind, are caused by excessive consumption of alcohol. I live in a country that is becoming excessively worried about the alcohol consumption, especially by the youth of the country and has proposed raising the tax on alcohol.

    Having one or two drinks with friends at a get-together won't generally do any harm. It's excessive drinking that causes the majority of the problems related to alcohol, not casual drinking.

    Vannakkam Scott: I agree. My second sentence in the post says that. But the problem has been a round a very long time, and it's not something brought in by the British. Here is a link to the Tirukkural on it. Scroll down a bit. Talks about gambling too.

    http://nvkashraf.co.cc/nvashraf/kur-eng/close10.htm

    I think those of us that have been or are currently around alcoholics more feel this debate more. I've seen 2 drinks a week become 4, become 6, become daily, etc. So your government, and mine are right to be worried. In some countries it is a very big problem.

    Aum Namasivaya

  2. #22

    Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by isavasya View Post
    See it is a big myth that brahmins are vegetarians and non-brahmins are not, actually it is not caste but sect which decides who are vegetarians and who are not, except for some vaishyas who are mostly vegetarians, irrespective of region and sect.

    I have met many people and seen many cultures of india, there are many sub-castes of brahmins who are hardcore Non-vegetarians, like Maithli brahmans, nepali brahmans, kashmiri brahmans, himachali brahmans, Gaud saraswat brahmans, bengali brahmans etc. Most of these sub-castes are traditional meat eaters, not just of today. Sachin tendulkar, lata mangeshkar, sunil gavaskar all fit in gaud saraswat category and they all are non-vegy.On the same maadwaris, agarwals, are 100% vegetarians. They come in vaishya category. Also there are many sub-castes of brahmins who are pure vegetarians.

    There is nothing called demi-god in hinduism, please stop abusing our devtas by taking terms from iskcon. Second devtas, including VISNU himself drank soma, which was not alcohol, but energy drink, which was required to give them strength in fights against asuras (demons).

    Also Alcohol is definitely bad, if you see it on average, alcohol can bring no good, but it can bring many bads,alcohol can lead to wife-beating, making one child abuser, in developing cancer, My mom and dad are doctor, they say 50% of their patients acquire
    problems from alcohol only. so alcohol is detrimental to society.

    I am not saying, pre-martial sex with consent is crime, but it is definitely not moral, nor ethical, from Hindu dharms perspective. I wouldn't advice it to anyone.
    You have more experiene in india than i and so I shall not continue arguing this. I know mostly from what I have heard from others on this issue. I get the impression that there are many vegetarians in India though. Also that Brahmins today would generally not be so strict due to it being Kali Yuga, much mroe materialistic. But I do not really know how it was in ancient times.

    You are right, demigod is not an accruate term, although I am not sure that there is an accurate english term for the devas. Perhaps just gods, with the small g? In any case, I don't care much, because it is just a term and i know that those in Hinduism who use it do not give the exact same meaning that, say, the Greeks do. But let us not argue, I will submit to saying 'deva' from now on unless talking about actual demigods such as the Pandavas.

    I didn't argue that alcohol is good. I even said it is bad for humans. But I do not think it accurate to say it is only fit for demons considering that the devas enjoy intoxication from time to time. They are not human, are not affected by health as humans are.

    The only time I think that pre-marital sex is immoral is when a baby results and the parents are not prepared to bring it up with love and care. If the two adults are consenting and responsible, then I would not call it immoral. This is largely because i see morality as being subject to involving how an action may hold consequenes (esp negative) for others. In today's context I think the risks of negative consequences are less than in previous times. I too, would not recommend it to people, but do not see the act itself as unethical.
    "For a bewildered person in the materialistic way of life, the body, the mind and the senses, which are engaged in sense gratification, are the cause of bondage to repeated birth, death, old age and disease. But for one who is advanced in spiritual knowledge, the same body, senses and mind are the cause of liberation"
    Prabhupada.

  3. #23
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    Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Madhuri View Post
    You have more experiene in india than i and so I shall not continue arguing this. I know mostly from what I have heard from others on this issue. I get the impression that there are many vegetarians in India though. Also that Brahmins today would generally not be so strict due to it being Kali Yuga, much mroe materialistic. But I do not really know how it was in ancient times.

    yes of course, there are millions and millions of hindus who are vegetarians,(at least 60% Indian Hindus are vegetarians in my opinion). I just pointed out it is primarily sect Philosophy, and region which decides vegetarianism above any other factor like caste.


    Quote Originally Posted by Madhuri View Post
    You are right, demigod is not an accruate term, although I am not sure that there is an accurate english term for the devas. Perhaps just gods, with the small g? In any case, I don't care much, because it is just a term and i know that those in Hinduism who use it do not give the exact same meaning that, say, the Greeks do. But let us not argue, I will submit to saying 'deva' from now on unless talking about actual demigods such as the Pandavas.
    Good devtas should be called devtas .


    Quote Originally Posted by Madhuri View Post
    I didn't argue that alcohol is good. I even said it is bad for humans. But I do not think it accurate to say it is only fit for demons considering that the devas enjoy intoxication from time to time. They are not human, are not affected by health as humans are.
    Well as i said, soma should be seen as energy drink ,like red Bull, and not alcohol, but you are free to have your interpretation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Madhuri View Post
    The only time I think that pre-marital sex is immoral is when a baby results and the parents are not prepared to bring it up with love and care. If the two adults are consenting and responsible, then I would not call it immoral. This is largely because i see morality as being subject to involving how an action may hold consequenes (esp negative) for others. In today's context I think the risks of negative consequences are less than in previous times. I too, would not recommend it to people, but do not see the act itself as unethical.
    seeing your signature which mentions prabhupada, the above post looks oxymoron. (plz dont mind, i am just kidding :P)
    When the light has risen, there is no day, no night, neither existence nor non-existence; Siva alone is there. That is the eternal, the adorable light of Savitri, - and the ancient wisdom proceeded thence (Svetasvatara Upanishad IV-18). :)

  4. #24
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    Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by MahaHrada View Post
    If meat alcohol, drugs and sex are prohibited in Hinduism than the whole country of Nepal and most himalayan regions must follow some other religion
    Such careless comments do irreparable damage to the image of Sanatan Dharma in minds who are new to this religion. You mean to say that entire population of Hindus in Himalayan region is mad after alcohol, drugs and sex in the name of religion ? Just google some words on Hinduism and give your expert comments, right ?

    First of all, very few Hindus subscribe to these rituals. Second, even those Hindus who do take a little of alcohol on such occasion do it only doing Bhairava Puja .... on other days it remains forbidden to most of them unless some are hardcore drinkers.

    You couldn't stop yourself to alcohol so added "drugs" too ! I hope you understand the wide range of banned substances for which the term "drugs" is used. Is it permissible to use all sorts of drugs in Hinduism ? Here again, these are limited to a very small section of Shaivites / Shaaktaas. Moreover, it is mostly limited to Bhaang and Gaanjaa and not open to all sorts of drugs. And these are used mainly by the Sadhus & not by common householder Hindus.

    And what about "sex" ? This has been used in almost extinct sects of Vamacharis. But the way you have tried to project, it appears as if it is a common ritual in Hinduism !

    Almost everybody in Nepal is using bhang at least on Shivaratri, even if the US goverment, especially the Reagan administration tried the utmost to outlaw drug use, still the king was donating 500 kg charas to the sadhus and shiva devotees assembled at Pashupatinath every year to celebrate Mahashivaratri according to the ancient customs.
    "Almost everybody" ?? How many Nepalis do you know and have lived with ?

    At dashain (durgapuja) even in the household of a pious vaishnava brahmin where i was living, 3 goats where sacrificed and the meat was eaten as prasad by all.Many nepali hindus have the custom to go to dakshinkali temple every saturday to offer a goat or chicken and some alcohol and they gather for a family picnic to eat and drink the prasad in the surrounding of the temple.
    Vaishnava Brahmin and eating meat and drinking alcohol ? Then they are certainly not Vaishnavas. "Vaishnavas going to Dakshinakail" shows your confusion. Moreover, even if it is true for one brahmin or one family .... how do you generalise for all Nepali Hindus in a sweeping manner ?

    Can we be a little careful and refrain from generalising things for the whole of Hindus ? The Aghoris too are Hindus and they live in burial grounds and even eat corpse meat ... does it mean that it applies to the whole Hindu society !

    In general, Hindus believe in Ahimsa & consider meat-eating a habit which the religious aspirants should avoid ... they don't approve use of drugs and sex outside marriage.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  5. #25
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    Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Such careless comments....bleh blah rhubbabar.. baseless acussations... some more accusations equally baseless, another batch of bleh blah rhubaba....
    I will not react to your rant. What i wrote are only facts. I know there are some people here who wish to deny obliterate, outlaw and supress every custom and darshana that is not westernized and sanitized within bharata dharma. Of course i knew that some would even deny that a diversity of opinion and different customs exists, thats why i added some pictures as evidence. Otherwise people with no idea of Hinduism, bad intent and impure imagination would simply accuse me of lying. I for one am not ashamend but proud of the diversity and open mindedness and inclusiveness of Bharata Dharma. You are free to dislike and denigrate customs that are sacred for other Hindus and spread divisiveness, but do not call me a liar or careless.

    The point of several of my posts lately has been that unlike monotheistic cults, Hinduism does not know a universal law that is valid for everybody, or a universal lawgiver and enforcer, a judge over good and evil who created the world and humans to rule over it, a single "God". Yamas and Niyamas are different according to place, time and individual qualifications, thats why Hinduismis has not lead to the evils of monotheistic religions such as genocidal religious wars, mass murder of heretics, political power struggle and invasive wars, violent suppression of unbelivers and colonialisation etc. We don´t need a mullah hinduism with some "divine law" applicable to everybody, we better leave fatwas and "sharia" law to Islam and stick to adhikari bheda.
    Last edited by MahaHrada; 19 June 2010 at 07:00 AM.

  6. #26

    Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

    Well I decided to post...

    Alcohol... Well even 1 glass of bear, wine or any other alcohol and you can't drive with your car. That's the truth. I have tasted alcoholic drinks and I don't understand how can people like this stuff (then again I don't like taste of energy drinks, too). Youth in my country have drinking parties etc. My older sister thinks that I'm already old enough to drink some alcoholic drinks.

    I will tell my view on pre-marital sex... You know sex sells. I meant songs with sexuality are most popular songs and so on. People are so good with idea, that everyone wants sex, that i have been sexually harassed, because of that. I'm against pre-marital sex. if someone can have sex with someone else then they are ready to marriage. Of course people differ, and I'm judging my relatives & people known to me. I think people should be commited to each other at least, not like one night stands.

    I must be really grumpy traditional-view loving woman in my past life.

    And I'd like to apologize for my view on this...


    Have a nice day,
    ~Alice

  7. #27
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    Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by MahaHrada View Post
    I will not react to your rant. What i wrote are only facts. I know there are some people here who wish to deny obliterate, outlaw and supress every custom and darshana that is not westernized and sanitized within bharata dharma. Of course i knew that some would even deny that a diversity of opinion and different customs exists, thats why i added some pictures as evidence. Otherwise people with no idea of Hinduism, bad intent and impure imagination would simply accuse me of lying. I for one am not ashamend but proud of the diversity and open mindedness and inclusiveness of Bharata Dharma. You are free to dislike and denigrate customs that are sacred for other Hindus and spread divisiveness, but do not call me a liar or careless.

    The point of several of my posts lately has been that unlike monotheistic cults, Hinduism does not know a universal law that is valid for everybody, or a universal lawgiver and enforcer, a judge over good and evil who created the world and humans to rule over it, a single "God". Yamas and Niyamas are different according to place, time and individual qualifications, thats why Hinduismis has not lead to the evils of monotheistic religions such as genocidal religious wars, mass murder of heretics, political power struggle and invasive wars, violent suppression of unbelivers and colonialisation etc. We donīt need a mullah hinduism with some "divine law" applicable to everybody, we better leave fatwas and "sharia" law to Islam and stick to adhikari bheda.
    You may do a little better by reading first what has been written than responding like this. My objection is against the generalisation. I have nowhere said that you were lying which we are sore about.

    I have mentioned about the Aghoris & their lifestyle which are part of Hinduism ... but what is the percentage of Hindus who subscribe to such a path ? The path is valid but that is not what the whole of Hinduism is. That alone is not the path which all Hindus tread on ... in fact, it is a small percentage.

    Hindus have not left anything unturned in their quest towards finding the Truth .... but everything is not for the common people. Generalisation like this is bad. Propagation of such ideas without taking care that it can mislead people is hazardous. Such false propaganda only led to the "Dam maaro dam"(sort of hippy culture) culture which harmed the Youth badly in the seventees.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  8. #28
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    Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by SweetAlisija View Post
    Well I decided to post...

    Alcohol... Well even 1 glass of bear, wine or any other alcohol and you can't drive with your car. That's the truth. I have tasted alcoholic drinks and I don't understand how can people like this stuff (then again I don't like taste of energy drinks, too). Youth in my country have drinking parties etc. My older sister thinks that I'm already old enough to drink some alcoholic drinks.

    I will tell my view on pre-marital sex... You know sex sells. I meant songs with sexuality are most popular songs and so on. People are so good with idea, that everyone wants sex, that i have been sexually harassed, because of that. I'm against pre-marital sex. if someone can have sex with someone else then they are ready to marriage. Of course people differ, and I'm judging my relatives & people known to me. I think people should be commited to each other at least, not like one night stands.

    I must be really grumpy traditional-view loving woman in my past life.

    And I'd like to apologize for my view on this...


    Have a nice day,
    ~Alice
    Vannakkam SA: Please don't apologise for such a wise sttement. Like I said before, age has nothing to do with it.

    Your parents and most Hindus believe in brahmacharya before marriage, and absolute commitment after marriage. it is right in one of the Yamas of Patanjali.

    There are reasons for this. One is mystical. Intimacy makes for a psychic connection, just like talking with someone for long hours, but in a mystical sense. That type of intimacy creates a connection that lingers on long after the relationship or sexual encounter is over. It puts something in your mind. As far as the mystical part goes, most of that knowledge has been lost. Of course the rationalists on here will argue the mystic part as always, as there is no common ground. A finely tuned mystically inclined person can feel a connection, or a recent sexual act between two people.

    Another is the mind comparing the sexual act from before marriage with the act during marriage. What spouse wouldn't be hurt if he or she thought that the other enjoyed sex more with some other person who is actually just in the past? So it is not helpful to the marriage in this way. Virgins marrying virgins works out better for this. To know that this deep intimacy has only been shared between the two of you makes for a deeper bond.

    Another reason for not going for premarital sex is the damage it will do to your parents. Perhaps some would say it is a generation gap, but healthy families do communicate. So a girl goes off to college, sleeps around, comes back and lies to her parents, or at least doesn't mention it, and then later agrees to an arranged marriage with parents assuring the other family, and the boy that she is a virgin. Then she has to either lie again, or tell the truth with crazy consequences. All a big mess!

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    My objection is against the generalisation.
    Baseless accusations as usual. Thats why a response is not possible. What generalisation? My posting says exactly the opposite that generalisations are not in accordance with Hindu Dharma.

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    Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by MahaHrada View Post
    Baseless accusations as usual. Thats why a response is not possible. What generalisation? My posting says exactly the opposite that generalisations are not in accordance with Hindu Dharma.
    Good, if you were not generalising. However, your writing style doesn't say so ... like use of "as usual" in your opening sentence in the above post.

    You read SA's post on "pre-marital sex" ? Can you say what prompted her to post that ? She might have got a horrible notion that Hindus are for pre-marital sex or some sort of free sex ... I don't know ! She had no reason to post this and also be sorry about having negative feelings about her opposition to pre-marital sex if she only knew that Hindus are dead against pre-marital sex.

    When knowledge about this religion in general is so poor in the west, posts like yours can do irreparable damage to young minds. It can justify their bad habits & lead them to doom.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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