What Vishnu Holds Reveals Who

[ShivaFan]

Namaste

Admittedly this comes from a blog, not scripture or what may be thought as an authorized source.
However I found it very interesting and am wondering if there is any legitimacy to this.

The blogger claims that aspects of Vishnu as depicted in ancient Murthis and sculpture can be identified by the order in which the Lotus (Padmam), Chakra (Discus), Shankhu (Conch) and Mace (Gada) are held in each of the fours arms (when so depicted with four arms depending), in the order of:
1) Back Right Arm > 2) Back Left Arm > 3) Front Left Arm, 4) Front Right Arm

The order of Possessions related to Name is below. Again, does anyone know if this has any legitimacy?

One other side note, also related indirectly to such iconography of the Divine. Below is a graphic I found, which at first appears to be Vishnu (you see Chakra or what could be a rather poor depiction of a Lotus, a Conch, but then there is a Red Jewel, and last what may be Lotus but I am not sure, almost like another shell) in Blue, but the Devanagri translates into another Name of a famous Deva, and is NOT Vishnu at all!

Can you guess Who it was labeled as? He does not resemble "an old friend" of the same Name which I am familiar with. (I will reveal the answer in a day or so ....) ... I wonder the significance of His depiction here and the Possessions shown, not typically seen as being held by "the old friend", almost Vishnu-like?


Om Namah Sivaya

___________________________________________________________________

1. Atchuthan - Padmam (Lotus), Chakra (Sudarsan Discus), Shankhu (Conch) and Gada (Mace).
2. Adhokshajan - Gada (Mace), Shankhu (Conch), Chakra (Sudarsan Discus) and Padmam (Lotus).
3. Aniruddhan - Gada (Mace), Shankhu (Conch), Padmam (Lotus) and Chakra (Sudarsan Discus.
4. Damodaran - Shankhu, Gada, Chakra and Padmam.
5. Govindan - Gada, Padmam, Shankhu and Chakra.
6. Hari - Chakra, Padmam, Gada and Shankhu.
7. Janardhanan - Chakra, Shankhu, Gada and Padmam.
8. Kesavan - Shankhu, Chakra, Gada and Padmam.
9. Madhavan - Chakra, Shankhu, Padmam and Gada.
10. Madhusoodanan - Shankhu, Padmam, Gada and Chakra.
11. Narasimham - Padmam, Gada, Shankhu and Chakra.
12. Narayanaan - Padmam, Gada, Chakra and Shankhu.
13. Padmanabhan - Padmam, Chakra, Gada and Shankhu.
14. Pradhyumnan - Shankhu, Gada, Padmam and Chakra.
15. Purushothaman - Padmam, Shankhu, Gada and Chakra
16. Hrishikesan - Chakra, Padmam, Shankhu and Gada.
17. Samgharshanan - Shankhu, Padmam, Chakra and Gada.
18. Sreedharan - Chakra, Gada, Shankhu and Padmam.
19. Sreekrishnan - Gada, Padmam, Chakra and Shankhu.
20. Thrivikraman - Gada, Chakra, Shankhu and Padmam.
21. Upendran - Gada, Chakra, Padmam and Shankhu.
22. Vamanan - Chakra, Gada, Padmam and Shankhu.
23. Vasudevan - Shankhu, Chakra, Padmam and Gada.
24. Vishnu - Padmam, Shankhu,Chakra and Gada.

The Shankhu (Conch) of Lord Vishnu is named Panjajanya, Chakra (Serrated edged Discus) is named Sudarsana Chakra and the Gada (Mace) of the Lord is named Kaumodaki.

______________________________________________________________________

[Viraja]

The presence of women and men around the feet remind me of gopas (in Gokul). I'm guessing this is the picture of Balarama (Baladeva), the brother of Krishna.

[smaranam]

The blogger claims that aspects of Vishnu as depicted in ancient Murthis and sculpture can be identified by the order in which the Lotus (Padmam), Chakra (Discus), Shankhu (Conch) and Mace (Gada) are held in each of the fours arms (when so depicted with four arms depending), in the order of:
1) Back Right Arm > 2) Back Left Arm > 3) Front Left Arm, 4) Front Right Arm

The order of Possessions related to Name is below. Again, does anyone know if this has any legitimacy?

praNAm

Yes, Shrila PrabhupAd lists the 24 VishNu rUpa in the purports acc. to the permutations of shankha chakra gadA padma, starting with the Chaturvyuha itself - VAsudev SankarshaN Pradyumna Aniruddha.

This means it must come from the scriptures - perhaps Padma purAN or some such. I shall see if the source can be found.

**EDIT: Also, Shri KRshNa Chaitanya (Mahaprabhu) mentions these 24 while teaching Rupa and/or SanAtana. It is in "Teachings of Lord Chaitanya" and also Chaitanya CharitrAmRta.

om namastubhyaM bhagavate vAsudevAya dhImahI
pradyumnAyAniruddhAya namah: saNkarshaNAya cha
(SB 6.16.18)

[ShivaFan]

Namaste Smaranam

Wow, good info, I didn't realize Prabhupad made reference to this. But I should have thought to check (I have the complete set of Cantos on SB and most all of the CC, I would purchase each way back when each Canto was first released, but I have only been keeping the BG handy on my shelf... you know, I do have the original Vedabase cd release which was in Infobase format somewhere, believe it or not I gave product review and technical advice for the original company which was Mormons in Utah - funny! But it was all about money which sounds like funny! - on this Infobase technology that led to going public, I really need to find that cd so I can search Prabhupad's commentaries!) ....


So it sounds legit, which is good because I am noticing the more ancient sculptures and iconography was very traditional, and some of the more modern graphical arts deviated from some of this.

The shaerd Deva poster seems to be an example of such deviation, Viraja's guess was pretty good but amazingly it is a Deva (hint some call him a Sura or even an Asura!) you might not first think of. I will give a couple of days and then reveal Who this "good old friend" is.


Knowledge of such iconography can sometimes be of immense value when it comes to Temples, Histories of the Devas and Devi, true origins and traditions of Sampradayas etc.

Om Namah Sivaya

[smaranam]

It is always so nice to read your stories from the 70's, when ISKCON was a growing child. It is also so honorable to know someone who worked this closely behind the scenes, be it in the area of technology, publication, art, distribution or anything else.
(This sentiment also applies in the otherwise material world, such as a then-start-up company that grew to become a popular giant later on.)
Of course, such words are not always good for that person's spiritual progress but I know this will not affect ShivaFan with an "I"

--------

Regarding that picture, my first and wild guess was SubramaNyam (a.k.a. Murugan ?)

Now that you mention asur, it reminds me of the story of GhanTA-KarNa (not KarNa of Mahabharat), who had a terrible and terrifying asuric past.
I am not saying this is GhanTA-KarNa. Just remembered the story.

He was a Shiv bhakta, but did not like VishNu at all. Shiva knew this. When GhanTA-KarNa (ghanTA = bell) asked Shiva for moksha, He said, "No. First develop love, reverence and devotion for Shri VishNu in your heart. He alone can grant you moksha."
Ghanta-karna was a bit dissapopointed but in his asuric consciousness, set for BadrinAth dhAm where Shriman BadrinArAyaN resides. On the way he had to fight someone (for self-protection) and brought that person's cut head as a gift/offering for NarayaNa. The infinitely kind NArAyaNa smiled and accepted his sentiment and turned him into a divine being - the kshetrapAL of BadrinAth dhAm alongside Kuber.

Today, all pilgrims seek blessings of GhaNTA-KarNa first, before darshan of BadrinArAyaNa and His pancha-ratna (Nar, NarayaNa Rshi, Uddhav, Devarshi NArad, Kuber) and GaruD. His mini temple is on the right side of the main central Narayan temple in the premises.


om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya

[Kalicharan Tuvij]

My guess would be, Manikandan, though I haven't come across such imagery of him.

[Viraja]

Regarding that picture, my first and wild guess was SubramaNyam (a.k.a. Murugan ?) - son of VishNu's Mohini AvatAr and MahaDev (Shiva). Sone of Hari and Har.

Namaste Smaranamji,

The son of Hari and Hara is 'Shaasta' (Iyappa). Subrahmanya is son of Shiva alone, born as 6 flames from his 3rd eye and then united into one by Karthika maidens. (I have read elsewhere also that Subrahmanya is actually one of the Sanat Kumaras who agreed to be born to Shiva-Parvathi but refused to be born of a womb and thus was born as flames from Shiva's 3rd eye).

[ShivaFan]

Namaste
The name of the company, which we gave consulting on HTML integration and the seach engine methodology was Folio and the product was Folio Views, this later was the engine for the first Vedabase CD. I still have the source software and the Vedabase CD, this would make it easy to search the content. Just a matter of luck where things align, the world is much smaller than I sometimes think. I think the reason Mormons were the owners of this startup is that they are extremely interested in collecting, archiving and researching ancestry databases as part of their religion.

The graphic shown is Kubera.

I know, doesn't look as Him. Typically he is seen with a belly, one bad eye (sometimes also shown with one yellow eye). Buddhists include, as well as many Hindu sects, a mongoose associate. Sometimes He holds a bowl or two jars (which may be filled with treasure), sometimes weapons. His mount is a human (as opposed to Garuda Who is an Eagle for example). Hindus often show Him with Lakshmi as both are associated with wealth.

I will post the full poster which shows His name Kubera written below. This is an example of how traditional iconography deviates over time from more ancient art and iconography. There is a temple to Kubera with Lakshmi in South India (details will follow). You can see Kubera with Vishnu-like features here. But it is Kubera, who guards the gems and such treasures. Here Kubera is almost becoming Vishnu due to association with Lakshmi. There seems to be an example oddly of Subramanya Whom you mention having the murti being acquired by a Vaishnava sect, but given another name and Whom is considered a murti of a Vaishnava temple in South India, but that is another story for another post. This representation of Kubera here is quite different from ancient iconography and sculpture .
Om Namah Sivaya

[Viraja]

That Kubera is looking handsome in this picture makes sense.. He was originally supposed to be very handsome, however once upon giving lustful look at mother Mahalakshmi, he is said to have been cursed and all his wealth taken away. The legend at 'Vaithamaanidhi Perumal' temple (Thirukolur, TN, India) states that Sri Vishnu took custody of all the 9 kinds of wealth thus and finally Kubera got back them all after praying to Sri Vishnu. However the curse that Kubera become pot-bellied and not handsome to look at stayed and that is why he came to look like how he does in popular pictures.

[ShivaFan]

Here it is .... Kubera Lakshmi Yantra.

More later on the South Indian Kubera Laxmi Temple in the Temples section...

Om Namah Sivaya