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Thread: Bhagavad Gita: Varna system misunderstanding

  1. #261

    Re: Bhagavad Gita: Varna system misunderstanding

    Hindu council UK, has carried out this report on Varna:
    http://www.hinducounciluk.org/report...e-caste-system
    In a nutshell:


    No one part of the human body
    (society) is inferior or superior to
    any other part of the body; each
    is dependent on the other,
    complementary to the other,
    there to support the other.
    Purusha Sukta
    commands
    Hindus to understand that none
    of the four classes is inferior or
    superior to the other but that
    each is dependent on the other

    for its surviva
    In an office we have top managers, middle mangers, secretaries and cleaners, for office to work, all individual jobs/functions are required to work together, there is no higher or lower jobs as they are all necessary.
    There will be higher wages, but that is different to spiritual equality of people who carry out whatever function.
    Dignity of labour to all functions.

    Rigveda 1.117.21
    The King and minister should sow seeds and do farming from time to time to set right examples for Arya. This makes them deserving of praise.
    http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-...-casteism.html
    To underscore the contention that the varna classes were not intended to be fixed and exclusionary, a scriptural reference and an anecdote are instructive. In the early Vedic times, the Varna system meant classes had free mobility of jobs and intermarriage. To substantiate this, the Rig Veda IX. 112.3 hymn contains: "I am a bard, my father is a physician, my mother's job is to grind the corn....”

  2. #262
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    Re: Bhagavad Gita: Varna system misunderstanding

    From the Devi-Suktam:

    “I am the Queen, full of treasures, shining with awareness. I am foremost of those worthy of worship….
    I make the man I love exceedingly mighty. I make him a sage, a rishi, and a brahmana.”

    (Rig Veda 10.125)

  3. #263

    Re: Bhagavad Gita: Varna system misunderstanding

    One may see from the article "Mundane distortions in the Divine discourse - On interpolations in Bhagvad-Gita (carried in this discussion board) that there is a strong case to suspect that the Chatruvarnyam and other such verses that espouse the inequality of the castes were mere interpolations and thus it would be erroneous to judge the grand Gita based on these.
    BS Murthy

  4. #264

    Re: Bhagavad Gita: Varna system misunderstanding

    Quote Originally Posted by isavasya View Post
    Pranaam ganesh prasad ji


    janmana jayate sudrah
    samskarad bhaved dvijah
    veda-pathad bhaved vipro
    brahma janatiti brahmanah



    "By birth every one is a shudra, by samskars he becomes a Dvija (i.e., twice-born). By learning (studying Vedas), he becomes a Vipra and by realizing Brahman, he attains the status of a Brahmana.

    Hello

    where can I find the statement above in the Srutis? or in the Smrtis? please give me the exact verses
    thank you very much

  5. #265

    Re: Bhagavad Gita: Varna system misunderstanding

    delete
    Last edited by Sudas Paijavana; 17 January 2014 at 05:52 PM.

  6. #266
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    Re: Bhagavad Gita: Varna system misunderstanding

    Originally Posted by isavasya
    Pranaam ganesh prasad ji


    janmana jayate sudrah
    samskarad bhaved dvijah
    veda-pathad bhaved vipro
    brahma janatiti brahmanah


    "By birth every one is a shudra, by samskars he becomes a Dvija (i.e., twice-born). By learning (studying Vedas), he becomes a Vipra and by realizing Brahman, he attains the status of a Brahmana.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lokavidu View Post
    Hello

    where can I find the statement above in the Srutis? or in the Smrtis? please give me the exact verses
    thank you very much
    Namaste,

    The statement is found in Mahabharata shanti parva 188

    A little googling is always helpful

    I found more references

    Namaste,

    I found here


    चातुर्वर्ण्यं मया सृष्टं गुणकर्मविभागशः।

    तस्य कर्तारमपि मां विद्ध्यकर्तारमव्ययम्।।4.13।।


    4.13 The four castes have been created by Me through a classification of the gunas and duties. Even though I am the agent of that (act of classification), still know Me to be a non-agent and changeless.


    4.13 The fourfold caste has been created by Me according to the differentiation of Guna and Karma; though I am the author thereof know Me as non-doer and immutable.


    About Nahush


    http://www.sushmajee.com/biographies/bio-N-O/nahush.htm


    Nahush and yudhisthir


    http://sushmajee.com/mahaabhaarat/mb.../31-nahush.htm

    The serpent asked - "Who is a Braahman? And what should be known? Your speech seems to be of highly intelligence."

    Yudhishthir said - "O Snake, As the learned say, that in whom we see truth, charity, forgiveness, good conduct, benevolence, observance of the rites of his order and mercy, is known as a Braahman. And which should be known is Supreme Brahm, in whom neither there is happiness, nor there is any misery, and attaining which people are not subjected to misery. What do you think?"

    The serpent asked - "O Yudhishthir, Truth, charity, forgiveness, benevolence, benignity, kindness and the Ved which work the benefit of the four orders, which is the authority in matters of religion and which is true, are seen even in the Shoodra. As regards the object to be known and which you allege is without both happiness and misery, I do not see any such that is devoid of these."

    Yudhishthir said - "The characteristics of Shoodra are not present in Braahman, and Shoodra is not a Shoodra by birth alone, nor a Braahman is a Braahman by birth alone. Wise say that in whoever these characteristics are seen he is a Braahman and in whoever these characteristics are not seen, he is a Shoodra, even though he is born as Braahman. Nothing is there which is without happiness and misery. But as in cold, heat does not exist; or in heat cold does not exist; in the same way there is nothing in the world in which happiness and misery do not exist.

    The serpent asked - "O King, If you can recognize somebody as a Braahman by characteristics, his being Braahman is useless unless they are seen in his conduct."

    Yudhishthir said - "O Intelligent Serpent, In human society, it is difficult to ascertain one's caste because of their apparent intermingled nature. Men of all orders beget the children on the women of all orders. In human being four things are common - speech, birth, sexual intercourse, and death; and that is why the priests say at the beginning of the sacrifice "of whatever caste we are, we celebrate this sacrifice for you". That is why the wise people make sure that that characteristic is present there. The natal ceremony is performed before cutting the umbilical cord. His mother then acts as Saavitree and his father acts as a priest; and he himself acts as a Shoodra until he is not initiated in the Ved. There are some doubts here, O Excellent Snake. Swaayambhuv Manu has said that the mixed castes are regarded better than the other classes because the other classes do not conform to the rules of good conduct. So I say that whosoever conforms to good conduct, is a Braahman."

    The serpent said - "O Yudhishthir, You are well conversant with whatever you should know, how can I eat your brother Vrikodar?"

    [3-180] Yudhishthir said - "You are so learned in Ved and Vedaang, tell me what one should do to attain salvation?"

    The serpent said - "O King of Bharat's race, In my opinion a man who gives alms and donations to proper people, speaks kind words and the truth, and observes A-Hinsaa, goes to Swarg [Daan, Satya and A-Hinsaa].

    http://anuragamaya.blogspot.in/2013/01/a-brahmin.html

    http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/r...-enough-3.html

    18.41
    brahmana-ksatriya-visam
    sudranam ca parantapa
    karmani pravibhaktani
    svabhava-prabhavair gunaih

    "Brahmanas, ksatriyas, vaisyas and sudras are distinguished by their qualities of work, O chastiser of the enemy, in accordance with the modes of nature."

    18.42

    samo damas tapah saucam
    ksantir arjavam eva ca
    jnanam vijnanam astikyam
    brahma-karma svabhava-jam

    "Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness--these are the qualities by which the brahmanas work."

    18.43
    sauryam tejo dhrtir daksyam
    yuddhe capy apalayanam
    danam isvara-bhavas ca
    ksatram karma svabhava-jam

    "Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity, and leadership are the qualities of work for the ksatriyas"

    krsi-go-raksya-vanijyam
    vaisya-karma svabhava-jam
    paricaryatmakam karma
    sudrasyapi svabhava-jam

    "Farming, cow protection and business are the qualities of work for the vaisyas, and for the sudras there is labor and service to others."

    The above shows you what varna you are actually in based on your function and qualities. There are many more qualities in 13,14 and 18 chapter, which desribe these varnas in more detail, and you can read them to get a clearer idea. For me, I believe in

    "Kalau Sudra Sambhavah"
    gokussj9 ↑

    yajna-siddhy-artham anaghan
    brahmanan mukhato’srjat
    brahmanyam brahmanenaivam
    utpanno brahmanah smrtah

    “From the mouth (of the Lord) sinless brahmanas were created for the purpose of performing sacrifices. The child born of a brahmana in the womb of a brahmana wife is known as a brahmana.” (Harita Smrti 1.12.15)
    Our acharyas have argued for centuries that a person should be accepted as a brahmana by qualifications alone, regardless of their birth in a particular body or family. To limit such a quality-based standard to men alone flies in the face of all reason and logic and seriously undermines the arguments our acharyas used to support their position.

    janmana jayate sudrah
    samskarad bhaved dvijah
    veda-pathad bhaved vipro
    brahma janatiti brahmanah

    “By birth one is a sudra, by the purificatory process one becomes a dvija, by study of the Vedas one becomes a vipra, and one who knows Brahman is a brahmana.” MahaBharatha Shanthi Parva 188

    Such quality-based distinctions are NOT limited to men only. They apply to all human beings.
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

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