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Thread: Bhakti in Advaita

  1. #1
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    Bhakti in Advaita

    Hello, I'm doing japa to Lord Ganesha.
    I'm chanting the mantra "Om Gam Ganapataye Namaha" 108 times.
    My question is: how should I view Lord Ganesha? What is Ganesha from the advaitic point of view?
    Should I consider him as Nirguna Brahman? Or as Ishvara/cosmic mind? Or as an aspect of Ishvara?
    Does he control the law of karma?
    If He can remove material and spiritual obstacles, then He must have some attributes.
    Or should I view him as a symbol to focus my mind on the Absolute?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Re: Bhakti in Advaita

    There is no such thing as the advaitic point of view.

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    Re: Bhakti in Advaita

    Quote Originally Posted by ale84 View Post
    Hello, I'm doing japa to Lord Ganesha.
    I'm chanting the mantra "Om Gam Ganapataye Namaha" 108 times.
    My question is: how should I view Lord Ganesha? What is Ganesha from the advaitic point of view?
    Should I consider him as Nirguna Brahman? Or as Ishvara/cosmic mind? Or as an aspect of Ishvara?
    Does he control the law of karma?
    If He can remove material and spiritual obstacles, then He must have some attributes.
    Or should I view him as a symbol to focus my mind on the Absolute?

    Thanks.
    Namaste Ji,

    Sri Ganesha is Saguna Brahman i.e. Brahman with attributes.
    Yes,symbols are meant to help an individual understand,relate to and grasp something that is otherwise difficult to comprehend.I hope members will elaborate.
    He dances in the golden hall of Chidambaram, Let us worship His rosy anklet girt Feet.

  4. #4
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    Re: Bhakti in Advaita

    namaste ale,

    Quote Originally Posted by ale84 View Post
    My question is: how should I view Lord Ganesha?
    In whatever form and with whatever attributes you like to worship Him.

    What is Ganesha from the advaitic point of view?
    It all depends upon you how you look at Him. God's any name and form is acceptable and they are all indicating towards Ishvara. If you think that He is Ishvara, Ishvara will act in this form to help you.

    Should I consider him as Nirguna Brahman? Or as Ishvara/cosmic mind? Or as an aspect of Ishvara?
    Nirguna Brahman, as the name indicates has no attributes. If you want to call Nirguna Brahman "Ganesha", there is no issue. However, Nirguna Brahman cannot be brought within mental concepts. Imho, better to accept Him as Saguna Brahman (as you can get any help only from Saguna Brahman) which is nothing but Nirguna Brahman associated with Vikshepa power of MAyA and with all the attributes of Ishvara.

    Does he control the law of karma?
    No one controls laws of Karma. These are as these are.

    If He can remove material and spiritual obstacles, then He must have some attributes.
    Sure. He can act as only a devataa who removes obstacles, if you consider Him so and also as Ishvara with power of omnipotence and omniscience, if you consider Him as Ishvara.

    Or should I view him as a symbol to focus my mind on the Absolute?
    Lord Ganesha is nothing but symbol of Ishvara if you consider him Ishvara. The Absolute cannot be brought within the framework of mental concepts.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  5. #5

    Re: Bhakti in Advaita

    Dear ale84,

    To understand Bhakti in Advaita Context, I would like to quote from Ganapathi Adharvasirsha upanishad. Since you are a devotee of Ganesha (Or Ganapathi), this upanishad may be of special interest to you. You can get a chant online and for understanding the meaning:
    http://www.dkprintworld.com/product-...pid=1280856932
    this book is apt. There is also a book by swami tejomayananda ji on the same subject.

    So coming to what is Advaita Bhakti, this is how Ganapathi upanishad starts:

    OM Namaste ganapataye: My prostration unto the Lord Ganapathi (Ganesha).
    Tvameva Pratyaksham tatvamasi: You Alone Are the reality manifest before us (AS universe)
    Tvameva kevalam kartasi : You are the only Creator.
    Tvameva kevalam dhartasi : You alone are the sustainer.
    Tvameva kevalam hartasi: You alone are the annihilator.
    Tvameva sarvam khalvidam brahmasi : You are the Brahman that is all this.
    Tvam sakshad atmasi nityam: You are ever the Self , Atma (My Self).

    This is Advaita Attitude of prayer.
    Please feel free to comment if you need more explanation for any of this.

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  6. #6

    Re: Bhakti in Advaita

    Usually a Bhakta is asked to surrender to a God.
    In Advaita, Bhakta recognizes that nothing is his own.
    namaha means na-mama, nothing is mine !
    So this body is not mine.
    This mind is not mine.
    there being nothing mine ... where is the me, that is only in relation to a possession ?

    There is no ME.
    Hence there is Lord Alone !!

    To put it another way... God is everywhere ... all around us ... to our left, right, up, above ... in and out of us ! So where is the place for me ?? There is only Lord ... if at all i am there, i am in the embrace of the Lord ... 24 7 ... so infact i dissolve in lord ...

    another style of putting it : Krishna is said to have shown the entire universe in his mouth ... so where are we ? Long before we even asked for it, we are already swallowed by the Lord !


    So we cannot even arrogate that there is something that is ours which we would like to surrender to God! Infact there is nothing ours ... there is no me at all ... i am already swallowed by the Lord ! Lord Alone Remains !

    IF this is well understood one revels in his embrace 24 7 as there is none else !!
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  7. #7
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    Re: Bhakti in Advaita

    Quote Originally Posted by ale84 View Post
    Hello, I'm doing japa to Lord Ganesha.
    I'm chanting the mantra "Om Gam Ganapataye Namaha" 108 times.
    My question is: how should I view Lord Ganesha? What is Ganesha from the advaitic point of view?
    Should I consider him as Nirguna Brahman? Or as Ishvara/cosmic mind? Or as an aspect of Ishvara?
    Does he control the law of karma?
    If He can remove material and spiritual obstacles, then He must have some attributes.
    Or should I view him as a symbol to focus my mind on the Absolute?

    Thanks.
    Namaste,

    In simple words. Think of Ganesha (with form) as an all powerful Godhead, who is capable of granting moksha. Ganesha can surely bestow you moksha.

    You can simply ask Ganesha to give you moksha. Pray to him to give what is best for you.

    Ganesha has both aspects, saguna (Gapesha) and nirguna (Ganesha-tatva), it same as Siva-tatva, Vishnu-tatva (corrections welcome). Ganesha like Siva and Vishnu can grants you your wishes, when worshiped as deity that removes obstacles, then Ganesha will act accordingly (in this case you may / may not not think of him as supreme Godhead) and you can ask Ganesha for granting moksha and rising above maya. Just like it is said that by grace of Vshnu / Krishna by grace of Ganesha, you can cross the ocean of samsara and rise above 3 gunas (maya)

    Hari OM
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

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    Re: Bhakti in Advaita

    Hello, devotee

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    No one controls laws of Karma.
    I think Ishvara arranges the situations in the material world, for our karmas to come to fruition.
    As I read somewhere:
    "People do good and sinful work and get its fruits, either in this life or after. People themselves cannot be the giver of their fruits, as no one would give himself the fruit of his sin. Also, this giver cannot be an unconscious object. So the giver of the fruits of karma is Ishvara."

  9. #9

    Re: Bhakti in Advaita

    Dear Ale84,
    Ishvara gives fruits of one's karma as per the laws of karma.

    The secret here is: Prayer is also a karma - it has its result.

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  10. #10

    Re: Bhakti in Advaita

    Quote Originally Posted by ale84 View Post
    Hello, I'm doing japa to Lord Ganesha.
    I'm chanting the mantra "Om Gam Ganapataye Namaha" 108 times.
    My question is: how should I view Lord Ganesha? What is Ganesha from the advaitic point of view?
    Should I consider him as Nirguna Brahman? Or as Ishvara/cosmic mind? Or as an aspect of Ishvara?
    Does he control the law of karma?
    If He can remove material and spiritual obstacles, then He must have some attributes.
    Or should I view him as a symbol to focus my mind on the Absolute?

    Thanks.
    Namaste,
    "Bhakti" literally means, "division". So as you can see, if you are sincere enough, Advaita and Bhakti don't go together very well.

    With time, mental maturity, one overgrows philosophies. Ganesha will, however, be still there.

    There is, in the final sum, nothing to choose between the so called "form" and the so called "formless".

    KT
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

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