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Thread: Is Buddhism theistic or atheistic?

  1. #1

    Is Buddhism theistic or atheistic?

    Is Buddhism theistic or atheistic? Can you backup your view?

  2. #2
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    Re: Is Buddhism theistic or atheistic?

    Namaste,

    I would say Buddhism is neither Theistic nor atheistic.

    Buddhism accepts that there are multiple gods and devas. They do not worship them. The Buddha says: Verily, there is an Unborn, Unoriginated, Uncreated, Unformed. If there were not this Unborn, Unoriginated, Uncreated, Unformed, escape from the world of the born, the originated, the created, the formed, would not be possible"

    This is God.

    Om Namah Shivaya

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    Re: Is Buddhism theistic or atheistic?

    Namaste

    Depends on the variety of Buddhism.

    Vajrayana Buddhism is transtheistic/thesistic.

    Transtheism has varying definitions. I like Paul Tillich's "the ground of being." His basic point is that God is beyond the question of existence or non-existence, being or non-being, and is the very power of being that being and becoming possible.

    "Existence - Existence refers to what is finite and fallen and cut of from its true being. Within the finite realm issues of conflict between, for example, autonomy (Greek: 'autos' - self, 'nomos' - law) and heteronomy (Greek: 'heteros' - other, 'nomos' - law) abound (there are also conflicts between the formal/emotional and static/dynamic). Resolution of these conflicts lies in the essential realm (the Ground of Meaning/the Ground of Being) which humans are cut off from yet also dependent upon ('In existence man is that finite being who is aware both of his belonging to and separation from the infinite' (Newport p.67f)). Therefore existence is estrangement."
    That said, Vajrayana Buddhism upholds an infinite, eternal, unthinkable, ineffable reality that is the source, and final destination, of all provisional constructs falsely construed as reality by the mind bound in assumptions of concrete, reified existence.

    Moreover, vajrayana is philosophically identical, or nearly identical to the mahayana. The difference is means of practice, and those means consist of the deity and guru yoga.

    The deities are directly drawn from the Hindu deities though there are of course differences in iconography, practice, etc., the essence is identical.

    These deities nominated as supreme have all the attributes of saguna brahman. Yet they are the form of the void, manifestations of the attributeless, transcending the attributes, the attributeless, and the attributer.


    Buddha taught 3, some say 4, turnings of the wheel. The first was the nikayas, the basic doctrine of personal discipline in ethics and meditation leading to personal liberation. The second expanded deeply on the concept of pratityasamutpada ("dependent origination" - ie, how transient causes generate transient effects, ad infinitum, with no trace of the eternal to be found in the play of maya) into the fullblown doctrine of shunyata (emptiness, which was only briefly covered in the nikayas and mostly in a psycho-emotional context). This emptiness is stated explicitly to be pure consciousness. In otherwords, nirguna brahman.

    In the third turning of the wheel, the tathagatagarbha sutras taught a doctrine of an eternal self-nature, indistinguishable from the void, or the self-natures of all beings as a single nature.

    For 'backing it up,' you're going to have to do some legwork and reading, may I suggest:
    1. Mother of the Buddhas - Lex Hixon, abridged (but excellent, truly excellent) translation of the 8,000 line Prajnaparamita sutra (there are many prajnaparamita sutras, this is generally considered by scholars to be the original.)
    2. Tathagatagarbha sutras
    3. -Lankavatara
    4. -Mahayana Mahaparinirvana (in which the Buddha talks about, amongst other things, the Satya-Atman, and its identical nature with the Void. He talks as well of the eternal, stainless dharmakaya (transcendental, eternal body of the Buddhas))
    5. Uttara Shastra - Discusses yogacara madhyamaka, an emptiness philosophy replete with fullness.
    6. The Essence of Zhentong - Jetsun Taranatha, zhentong is a Tibetan philosophy fusing tathagatagarbha and prajnaparamita teachings; an emptiness empty of all but the True Self, itself a complete emptiness.
    7. Sovereign All-Creating Mind - Translation of Sarva Dharma Mahahanti Bodhichitta Kulaya Raja, a part of the Semsde (mind-cycle) tantras of the nyingma (ancient school).
    The 4th turning is said to consist of the Vajrakaya teachings.


    Namaste
    Last edited by Shuddhasattva; 24 June 2012 at 02:18 AM.

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    Re: Is Buddhism theistic or atheistic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth108 View Post
    Is Buddhism theistic or atheistic? Can you backup your view?
    Buddha was agnostic. He forbade his followers from speculating emptily on the origin of the universe, whether God exists or not, whether the self exists or not, etc. He said all such speculation is futile and would ultimately lead to vexation and madness.

    Regarding Buddhism, I am not so sure. Buddhism, just like Hinduism, diversified after the Buddha into a heady concoction of differing and sometimes contradictory beliefs...some believe in reincarnation, some do not, some are realists, some are idealists, etc., etc.

  5. #5

    Re: Is Buddhism theistic or atheistic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth108 View Post
    Is Buddhism theistic or atheistic? Can you backup your view?
    Depends on how one defines theism and atheism. The term atheism does not have a clearcut meaning and contradicting views exist.

    From an Indian view, the term nastika (non-believer) can mean one of the following -

    1. non-believer in God [Gita]
    2. non-believer in other worlds [Panini]
    3. non-believer in the Veda [Manu Smriti]

    Based on the third definition, Buddhism and Jainism have sometimes been categorized as nastika systems by orthodox Hindus.
    http://lokayata.info
    http://shivsomashekhar.wordpress.com/category/history/

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    Re: Is Buddhism theistic or atheistic?

    I have recently come along a good paper about the exact topic you are investigating:

    http://alanwallace.org/Is%20Buddhism...ntheistic_.pdf

    The link above will open up a pdf. I could not find the original website which has this linked.

  7. #7

    Re: Is Buddhism theistic or atheistic?

    is according to which Guru (lineage or school) you follow
    off course some lineage of Buddhism is also use Veda's teachings
    anyway,
    all Buddhist sect cosmology and demigods name in their scripture is originaly from Hindu cosmology and deities.

    Some Buddhist is claim they are not believe in God and Deva is not God.

    But some Buddhist (like me) is believe in God
    but all Buddhist not believe in one point of creation, i think many Hindu also not believe creation is from one point,
    creation is a proces like a cycle, create - preserver - destroy , no beggining and no end
    this process is doesnt mean not believe in creation

    Mahayana - Tantric Tripitaka have The Sutra of Causal Ground of Shiva
    The Sutra of 12 Devas etc
    these sutra is proof that Buddhism also believe Buddha (The highest consciousnes) is manifest in form of Devas to do creation - preserver and destruction, Buddha also manifest in many form of Buddha and Bodhisattva to teach different sentient beings .

    Mahayana also believe Buddha also appear in form of Shiva etc to teach sentient beings
    so myself as Buddhist, dont have any problem to said that i am proud to be Hindu. And i everyday is doing puja to Lord Shiva, Ganesh, Sarasvati etc

    How about Buddha refuse some peoples who always ask for creation etc,
    yes offcourse that is also appear in our text !
    But we know Buddha is teach different peoples in different way (according to their state etc) ,
    but Buddha have explained about creation , cosmology etc to another student.
    Not all diseases you can cure only with one influenza medicine

    OM. VAJRA. VISHNUYA. SVAHA
    OM. VAJRA. GARUDA. CALE CALE. HUM PHAT


    OM. AMOGHA VAIROCANA. MAHA-MUDRA. MANI PADMA JVALA PRAVARTTAYA. HUM

    Om Saha Nau-Avatu |
    Saha Nau Bhunaktu |
    Saha Viiryam Karava-Avahai |
    Tejasvi Nau-Adhii-Tam-Astu Maa Vidviss-Aavahai |
    Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih ||


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    Re: Is Buddhism theistic or atheistic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth108 View Post
    Is Buddhism theistic or atheistic? Can you backup your view?
    The Vajrayana tradition do take the existence of deities very seriously and they should be considered in an emanation sense.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padmasambhava

    Padmasambhava said:

    My father is the intrinsic awareness, Samantabhadra (Sanskrit; Tib. ཀུན་ཏུ་བཟང་པོ). My mother is the ultimate sphere of reality, Samantabhadri (Sanskrit; Tib. ཀུན་ཏུ་བཟང་མོ). I belong to the caste of non-duality of the sphere of awareness. My name is the Glorious Lotus-Born. I am from the unborn sphere of all phenomena. I act in the way of the Buddhas of the three times.


    http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?t...athful_deities

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    Re: Is Buddhism theistic or atheistic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth108 View Post
    Is Buddhism theistic or atheistic? Can you backup your view?
    Please define the "theos" referred to in "theism" and "atheism".

  10. #10

    Re: Is Buddhism theistic or atheistic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiritualseeker View Post
    Namaste,

    I would say Buddhism is neither Theistic nor atheistic.

    Buddhism accepts that there are multiple gods and devas. They do not worship them. The Buddha says: Verily, there is an Unborn, Unoriginated, Uncreated, Unformed. If there were not this Unborn, Unoriginated, Uncreated, Unformed, escape from the world of the born, the originated, the created, the formed, would not be possible"

    This is God.

    Om Namah Shivaya
    Buddha is not referring to God here

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