Nobody is "born" a Brahmin. I would prefer to see this bogus caste system nonsense kept outside of the forum. ~BYS~Originally Posted by Singhi Kaya
Nobody is "born" a Brahmin. I would prefer to see this bogus caste system nonsense kept outside of the forum. ~BYS~Originally Posted by Singhi Kaya
Anyone who is born into a Brahmana Gotra is a Brahmana by birth; and it is only "bogus" when the appropriate Brahmana Samskaras are not followed !
Varna is intrinsic to traditional Hindu Dharma; and sects that have completely rejected Varna are commonly considered as "heterodox" !
Is this a forum for the discussion of Hindu Dharma generally, or would anyone prefer to set more exclusive sectarian guidelines?
yes!Originally Posted by sarabhanga
BYS,
gotra is a big part of the hindu culture and we can not just drop it overnight...I know that's not what you meant but just wanted to say that...gotra or jati is a big part of indian hindus and I for one am not willing to give it up for anything...
obviously, in practice i am not kashatriya and only a shudra but by jati I am a kashatriya and it is a big part of my personality!
satay
However, even a person who is not a brahman by birth can be equivalent to brahman by practiseAnyone who is born into a Brahmana Gotra is a Brahmana by birth; and it is only "bogus" when the appropriate Brahmana Samskaras are not followed !
At the same time, brahman by birth but not by practise is not a brahman at all. As Shri Sharabhanga suggested, such persons are worth addressing Bogus
By practice of what?Originally Posted by Jalasayanan
Sage Viswamitra became a Brahmin (infact a Brahmarishi, the highest form of Brahmanhood) from a kshatriya by performing tapasya. So it is obvious that varna system is a spiritual classification. They are not watertight and anyone can become a Brahmin through penance.
Which obviously means that one cannot be Brahmin by virtue of birth, though it is the custom from an immemorable past.
Everyone is an avarna by default. When one becomes interested in spirituality and learns(hears) about it, he is a shudra( sushrUsha means desire to hear about Yoga). When he starts practicing the Yoga, he is a Vaishiya( vishati iti vaishya:, one who enters Yoga). When he is advanced in the Yoga, he is a kshatriya (kshatat trAyate iti, protected from danger which happens for a Yogi). Knowledge of Atma(Brahman) results in Brahminhood.
Birth based classification of caste is racial in character, though it has become an inevitable part of Hindu culture.
Every ATMA is avarna to be very preciseEveryone is an avarna by default
This view if further corroborated by Vaishnav and Shaiva Siddantins. Both feel devotion makes one a member of their clan
I find many things which I don't agree to, if I have points I try to refute them and not lebel something as bogus or delete out stuff when it doesn't agree to my ideas~it's another thing I don't have a mod previledge like you.Originally Posted by Bhakti Yoga Seeker
Also noteworthy is that you pick up a word from a full senetnce, remove the context in which it was said and start attacking. Which one is out of context? My sentence or your direct attack on a hindu system without any provocation? I used the word only in the context of OP that it is easy to get confused in hinduism. It was an innocent reference~but I had no idea we have so much bigoted people here who will pick word from sentence and start attacking because they have hatred for it. Because of it we now have 4 posts on caste system in this thread, whereas I never mentioned it to start with.
Thanks to Sarabhanga for putting it up in right words.
Last edited by Singhi Kaya; 14 May 2006 at 04:50 AM.
Moderator Note:
This is really getting tiring. If you are not going to read what I have to say and then put words in my mouth that were not there and then engage in personal attacks against me, I will take serious action. This thread will be split to keep it on topic and irrelevant banter will be removed. The person who brought the caste system up completely out of context was not me, it was you. Your response did not indicate you read and understood my most recent explanation on this thread that my comment on the caste system was simply my opinion and not a mod note. You were clearly the one that inserted it out of context and then now accuse me of taking it out of context and consider my behavior "bigoted," "hateful," and "prejudiced." Your mention of being born a Brahmin had nothing to do with the question the user asked and obviously did a great job at starting a flame or off-topic debate because many if not most Hindus consider varna/caste to be a hot topic. Your complaint about Vaishnavas disappearing here was inappropriate political banter. This is your last warning because it is you that is causing all of these threads to go off-topic and you have done this continuously in the past with multiple forums, threads, and topics.
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