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Thread: What is consciousness ?

  1. #1
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    What is consciousness ?

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    We use it every day - it pours though our eyes, ears, nose, touch and taste. We use and apply it as awareness and as ~ focus~. We know what it does but do we know what it is ?
    We see it come and go during wake, dream and sleep.... Is this the consciousness we have come to understand ? How do we measure it quantitatively ? We seem to know how to do it qualitatively e.g. cloudy or sharp awareness ( but compared to what?).

    We see brain wave activity and all the different beta and theta waves and all that ... but if one were to compare person A with person B's brain waves would there be a signature of the amount of consciousness one has over the other ? These tests can say this -or- that part of the brain is working normally or abnormally and then we infer that the ~consciousness~ part should be operating in good order.

    If you take the ~ scientific method~ one usually needs to be external to the problem being considered. But how can one do this with consciousness ? sure we can look at the neurons firing, or the chemical actions that occur within the 'hardware' of the brain - this may tell us something about how consciousness is produced
    ( if it is that)... but does it tell us what it is ?

    Others say this consciousness falls outside of the physical realm... that of a chemically based function that when 'ignited' offers consciousness as its product.

    At times we talk of individual consciousness that does not extend past one's nose; then at other times we talk of collective consciousness - that of a group or mega-group. Then for some we talk of unbounded consciousness - that which extends beyond the notion of me, you and the world.

    So what is this thing we use every day and not really know what it is ?

    iti śivaṁ
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #2
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    Re: What is consciousness ?

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    Some say consciousness is the void (śūnyatā) filled with Self or Being. Others say when the infinite ( Being) vibrates, consciousness becomes. Yet there is no time when Being is not, and therefore consciousness is continuous. These are quite abstract ideas.

    We know we have wake , dream and sleep states. In wake and dream we have no contention of saying we are conscious; but in sleep it is the complete absence of experience and we say we are closer to unconsciousness or no consciousness. But the key here is we always associate consciousness with experience. If we are not experiencing something ( this includes thoughts, smells, etc) then we're of the opinion there is an absence of consciousness. This therefore causes a conundrum .
    If one knows or experiences samādhi¹ there is no object of experience; one is fully awake but at the same time in a restful state ( my teacher called it restful alertness; ramaṅa mahaṛṣi called it waking sleep). So the ~dynamics~ of this condition is contrary to one's observation of a person within this samādhi state.

    Some argue ( and rightly so in my opinion) that a key quality of consciousness is continunity. Even though we cycle though wake, dream and sleep we always wake up the same person, starting from the last memory or impression of who we think we are. Yet before I can say I am yajvan, I first must be I am . I first must be. But a person asks, be what yajvan ? Just be, to exist. This state of existence is a fundamental condition for being anything; before one can be something they first must be. IMHO this is where I think the true definition of consciousness resides.

    iti śivaṁ

    1. samādhi - wholeness; perfect stillness; full awareness, yet without entertaining any object. There are multiple views on this with different names, of which we may bring up later for clarification.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #3
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    Re: What is consciousness ?

    Namaste Yajvan ji,

    Any topic on consciousness draws me to itself like nothing else. I am slightly busy now but let me see if I can contribute something :

    We use it every day - it pours though our eyes, ears, nose, touch and taste. We use and apply it as awareness and as ~ focus~. We know what it does but do we know what it is ?
    We see it come and go during wake, dream and sleep.... Is this the consciousness we have come to understand ? How do we measure it quantitatively ? We seem to know how to do it qualitatively e.g. cloudy or sharp awareness ( but compared to what?).
    Some observations as I view it :

    1. "We" used above is a child/product of Consciousness. We may also say that it is one of the symptoms of consciousness. So, Consciousness will encompass "We", "I" etc. and not the other way round.

    2. "Do we know what it is ?" --> I don't know - this is for sure. Yes, what happens due to Consciousness i.e. the products of Consciousness are known but not the Consciousness itself. Why ? Because Consciousness is not an object of knowing but it is the knower itself.

    3. Can we measure it quantitatively ? I don't think so. It is not something which can be measured. However, the level of intelligence / level of awareness / memory power which are products of consciousness can be measured.

    I would like to say a little more but may be later. I hope to get more insights from your posts.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  4. #4

    Re: What is consciousness ?

    There is a simple and beautiful way of reasoning that consciousness is changeless.
    often people try to reason from neural dynamics perspective ... but there is a point here ...

    neural dynamics leads to the "Experience" which is called the "Qualia"!
    Qualia is the logical level of experience which we refer to as "mind"

    neuro science is clueless with respect to qualia ...

    now ... if there is a thought ... thought is a movement and a movement is with repsect to something that is changeless. a changeless something with reference to which the motion has to be defined.
    and if there is something that is changeless with respect to which the change called thought is seen ... the question is can that change ??
    if that changes that becomes a thought and there should be something which is static with reference to it.

    thus ... consciousness is changeless presence ... is undoubtedly and easily established !!
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  5. Re: What is consciousness ?

    Namaste Ji,

    Let me share my understanding and opinion on this.....
    Science has a basic limitation of being able to prove any Process, Product or Material Property [Physical, Chemical, Biological, Physiochemcal, etc...] only if these are (1) Repeatable and Reproducible or (2) Measurable within its parameters of current knowledge. Till the time the Science progresses enough in technology capable enough to achieve (1) and (2) any "Thought" or "Prophecy" or "Postulate" remains a mere "THEORY".

    Thus if we understand the above limitation of Science; we will appreciate that it is not prudent to look for answers like "Consciousness" with Science. Why ?

    The basic nature of "Consciousness" as explained by my guru is ...
    1. The "C" is neither a "Product, Part or Property" of the body
    2. The "C" is not limited by the boundary of the body
    3. The "C" beyond the body, all pervading the entire space
    4. The "C" does not deteriorate or die with the body
    5. The "C" is subtle and cannot be determined by material world, as is beyond time and space.

    Hence the answer is to realize the "C" and trying to find this outside of self is starting point of Self Realization. Once the hunger for search starts, the search will lead into the self.

    Namaste
    Krishna

  6. #6

    Re: What is consciousness ?

    Lord Shiva is the consciousness present in every soul.

  7. #7

    Re: What is consciousness ?

    To BE
    AM
    IS
    the "WHATEVER" state
    ....
    ...
    ..
    .
    [silence]

    namaste
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

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