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Thread: puruṣakāra (interceder) in the vaḍakalai sect of the śrī vaiṣṇavas

  1. #21
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    Re: puruṣakāra (interceder) in the vaḍakalai sect of the śrī vaiṣṇavas

    Quote Originally Posted by grames View Post
    Every Jiva and NithyaSooris are Sthrees in the context of Sriman Narayana as the ParamaPurusha! In that context, Sri becomes the channel through which Jivas can even approach Sriman Narayana! This ultimate Prema Ruchi ( The mellow of loving relationship and etiquette) is very much detailed in Sri Vallaba and Sri Gaudiya traidtions! So, just because Jivas are also in Stree Bhava, that logic alone does not make Sri another jiva.

    If Jiva Kshara, Sri is Akshara and Sriman Narayana is above both of these categories! ( Though not very clearly established in Sri Vaishnavaism to my so far exposure)

    Hare Krshna!
    Thank you for the clarification and the correction, Grames ji!
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: puruṣakāra (interceder) in the vaḍakalai sect of the śrī vaiṣṇavas

    Namaste Viraja Ji,

    Thanks a lot for taking the time to study the real nature of Sri Devi and for explaining to us the nuances.




    He dances in the golden hall of Chidambaram, Let us worship His rosy anklet girt Feet.

  3. #23
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    Re: puruṣakāra (interceder) in the vaḍakalai sect of the śrī vaiṣṇavas

    Namaste,

    I was listening to upanyasa on 'Chatusloki' by Sri Karappangadu Venkatachariar Swami (http://acharya.org/d.html -- Part 1) and he gives a short narrative on how Thennachiriya Sampradaya (Tenkalai sect) and Desika Sampradaya (Vadakalai Sect) view mother Mahalakshmi. Thought the points are interesting and belonged to this thread:

    1. Matru devo bhava, pitru devo bhava, acharya devo bhava, athiti devo bhava - so says our scriptures. Athitis are the other bhagavatas, acharya is our Sri Vaishnava acharya, pitru is bhagwan and matru is divine mother. The one who gets us the sambanda of athitis is acharya, one who gets us the acharya is the pitru and one who gets us the pitru is mother.

    2. According to Desika Sampradaya (Vadakalai), mother Mahalakshmi is equal in status to Perumal. Hence since mother is a great goddess in her own right, all souls residing in Paramapadam as well as on earth, are all her properties, much as they are properties to bhagwan. Whereas according to Nayanar Achan Pillai (Thenkalai), all souls are properties to bhagwan and since Thaayaar is his wife, she gets/acquires these properties for herself,
    owing to the virtue of her being married to bhagwan. This is the key difference between vadakalai and thenkalai views.

    3. Also according to Thenkalai sect, there exists the notion that mother is at the same time i) Superior to bhagwan ii) Equal to bhagwan and iii) Lesser to bhagwan.

    a. Superior to bhagwan: Mother/thaayaar is more merciful than the lord. When a suffering/struggling devotee worships mother, she is immediately filled with immense mercy for the devotee - termed as 'Kaarunyam'. Even
    though the Lord also is filled to Kaarunyam, sometimes it seems that he is not, as he is more stricter and it is only the mother who melts down with mercy for the devotee immediately. Hence she is superior to the Lord in this aspect.

    b. Equal to bhagwan: When a devotee praises the Lord and thaayaar and takes to Saranagathi, both thaayar and the Lord accept it and bless the devotee. Thus thaayaar is equal to bhagwan in this aspect.

    c. Lesser than bhagwan: Unlike bhagwan, thaayar does not play any significant role in the creation process. Thus she is considered lesser to him in this aspect.

    * * *
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: puruṣak�ra (interceder) in the va�akalai sect of the śrī vaiṣṇavas

    Namaste Viraja ji

    Have you come across devotees who follow both Vadakalai and Thenkalai ideologies. ie pick everything that suits you from both.

    Correct me if I have misunderstood, parent body for these two sects is Shree Raamanujacharya teachings. Isn't it?
    Anirudh...

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    Vadakalai-Thenkalai

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    Namaste Viraja ji

    Have you come across devotees who follow both Vadakalai and Thenkalai ideologies. ie pick everything that suits you from both.

    Correct me if I have misunderstood, parent body for these two sects is Shree Raamanujacharya teachings. Isn't it?
    Dear Anirudh ji,

    Yes you are correct. Since Sri Vaishnava sampradaya is also known as 'Sri Sampradaya', the guru lineage has started from mother Mahalakshmi. From then on, until Sri Ramanujar, the sampradaya remained intact. As much as I referred on this, it appears that 2 centuries after Sri Ramanujar, the sampradaya split into 2 over some minor differences.

    No, you either belong to Vadakalai or Thenkalai.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: Vadakalai-Thenkalai

    Dear Ji.,

    It doesn't matter which door you have chosen to enter the temple... but you are there to worship the very same Ranganatha. ( North or South entrance to the temple, you are there to worship the Lord, Shri Ranganatha)

    Hare Krshna!

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    Re: Vadakalai-Thenkalai

    Namaste
    Quote Originally Posted by Viraja View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    Namaste Viraja ji

    Have you come across devotees who follow both Vadakalai and Thenkalai ideologies. ie pick everything that suits you from both.

    Correct me if I have misunderstood, parent body for these two sects is Shree Raamanujacharya teachings. Isn't it?
    Dear Anirudh ji,

    Yes you are correct. Since Sri Vaishnava sampradaya is also known as 'Sri Sampradaya', the guru lineage has started from mother Mahalakshmi. From then on, until Sri Ramanujar, the sampradaya remained intact. As much as I referred on this, it appears that 2 centuries after Sri Ramanujar, the sampradaya split into 2 over some minor differences.

    No, you either belong to Vadakalai or Thenkalai.

    Yes, this is interesting to notice. After a few centuries the two branches of the same tradition are beginning to show some disagreement on the philosophical understanding. This can happen either because of the founder acarya, Ramanuja, have not quite precisely formulated and explained some philosophical concepts and so are some concepts of his teachings remained inconclusive and thus susceptible to various interpretations, or because either of the traditions simply misinterpreted his teachings. Unfortunately some of that happened.


    regards

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    Re: Vadakalai-Thenkalai

    There is no flaw in the teaching of shri Ramanuja and anything more than one is not a flaw but natural progress and fitment for the practioner's ability. Remember, there are two practices of Bhakti and prapatti during Ramanajuna time itself and who qualifies for practicing what is individual ability and qualification.

    This is exactly the fundamental difference between two paths of Sri vaishnavaism but they do have same philosophy. These two paths still operate with in the framework of what Sri Ramanuja has preeched and any addition, omission and superficial meanings are just philosophy of ignorants.

    So how does it make it two? It's still two entrances to the same altar.

    Hare Krshna!

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