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Thread: garbha gṛha & other interesting things

  1. #11
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    Re: garbha gṛha & other interesting things

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    The layout (survey plot and temple buildings) of the temple is proportioned in squares. Usually 64 or 81 squares are used.
    • 64 = 8x8 ; 8 + 8 = 16 = 15 +1 ; 4² = 16
    • 81 = 9x9 ; 9 + 9 = 18; 8+1 = 9 ; 3² = 9
    These are jyotish numbers. Do you think there is some reason for these choices ?
    I have a few ideas on this matter...

    Note the base numbers of 8 and 9. The jyotiṣi should spot these numbers as the 9 naisargika (sahaja¹) kārarka-s and the 8 cara kārarka-s i.e. the graha-s some call ~the planets~.
    With the 9 naisargika (sahaja¹) kārarka-s all of creation both the human realm and all impersonal things - every thing that exists in brahmā-s creation¹ (thus he is the lord of these 9) that affects the human condition is influenced by the these 9 graha-s.

    The cara kārarka-s are the 8 graha-s (less ketu) and is lorded by viṣṇu which influence the sustenance and achievements in one's life and the people that influence this sustenance and achievement both mundane and spiritual.
    So, the temple is that which is found in the cosmos (macro) and that which is found on earth (micro) i.e. yathā piṇḍī tathā brahmāṇḍa, from post 7 above.

    These graha-s function on 3 levels:

    • graha devatā or the physical level
    • adhi-devatā - key here is adhi = over and above , so this is the next level above the 1st level or above graha devatā, and is more refined then the physical i.e. the mental, manas.
    • pratyadhi devatā - ( adhi = above) and pratya as prayi have a few meanings i.e. ' in the presence of' , 'on par' suggesting in the presence of the highest.
    So, using this 8 and 9 as a base for calculations also indicate/recognize and align those influences within the temple's construction.

    Yet there too there is a rāśi (house) indication of the 8th and 9th houses. I will leave that to your reading within the jyotish HDF folder.


    Now there too is another notion to the number 8. In vāstu it is considered an important core number. I have read about it but cannot , with certainty, offer additional insight to this 8 from this vāstu point of view, but will deposit the information in the next post.


    iti śiva

    words
    • sahaja - innate , hereditary , original , natural
    • kārarka - instrumental in bringing about a action; maker or doer
    • another idea of 'all of creation' is the 8 directions + 1. We know the 8 directions as N,S,E,W, N.E, S.E, N.W., S.W. and the last one in this model is the center ( that goes upward and downward). This center is the brahmāsthan; we can find this brahmāsthan within the center of the temple building or within the survey plot of the temple's site.
    Last edited by yajvan; 01 January 2014 at 12:02 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #12
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    Re: garbha gṛha & other interesting things

    hari o
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    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    Now there too is another notion to the number 8. In vāstu it is considered an important core number. I have read about it but cannot , with certainty, offer additional insight to this 8 from this vāstu point of view, but will deposit the information in the next post.
    It is the notion of space and time... this paper does a most excellent job of outlining the underlying principles:
    http://www.vastu-design.com/seminar/9.php


    iti śiva
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #13
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    Re: garbha gṛha & other interesting things

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté


    regarding 9 and 8.

    An interesting note (for me) is the following.
    • The maṇḍala of 9 x 9 = 81 squares.
    • The maṇḍala of 8 X 8 = 64 squares
    These ~squares~ are on the ground, is it possible to relate them to some astrological place? Here is one way .

    81 X 64 = 3240 ( by the way 3+2+4+0 = 9) . What does this number have to do with anything ? Multiply it by the 5 tattvas ( that which make up the universe) and we get the number 25,920. To a person that studies astronomy this number sort of sticks out. It is the number of years found in the precession of the equinoxes. The figure usually given ( rounded up) is 26,000. Scientists today call out the number as 25,772.
    This precession is the wobble of the earth. the wobble is like a top. not just back and forth but in a circular motion. The earth's axis ( from south to north, through the center)points to a pole star, today known as Polaris.; Vega was the pole star around 12,000 BC and will be the pole star again in the year 14,000. Due to this wobble the pole star changes as the axis will point to another star as this wobble continues again and again taking ~26,000 years to come back to the same star (say Polaris).




    One last note...
    I called out the word maṇḍala above. We know it to mean several things e.g. a division or book of the ṛg-veda , a surrounding district or neighboring state, a halo round the sun or moon ,etc. Yet it also means a circle, a the path or orbit of a heavenly body. This is what is ~charted out~ in the photo above, the ~orbit~ of the earth's axis projected in the sky.

    iti śiva
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  4. #14

    Re: garbha gṛha & other interesting things

    om gurave namah


    Dear Yajvan Ji,

    Thank you kindly for taking the time to write this wonderfully informative thread, you have invoked the energy of the deva for me, in reverence of my first ever temple visit and puja.
    I had the delightful experience of the Nageshvara Jyotirlinga at Jageshwar, of one of the 12 Jyotirlinga.
    I can still feel the sound of the hymn and its resonance in what I know understand to be the garbha gṛha; a deep universal connection was there for me in the ancient words of Jyoti sung in puja in this wonderful place, leaving no doubts in my heart, and a libre access to the divine.

    Thank you for highlighting this; it is ghee for the lamp of my learning!

    Kind regards.
    Last edited by Mana; 04 January 2014 at 01:58 AM.

  5. #15
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    Re: garbha gṛha & other interesting things

    Quote Originally Posted by Mana View Post
    I can still feel the sound of the hymn and its resonance in what I know understand to be the garbha gṛha; a deep universal connection was there for me in the ancient words of Jyoti sung in puja in this wonderful place, leaving no doubts in my heart, and a libre access to the divine.
    Namaskar Manaji,

    I know I shouldn't be so surprised, yet I am. Your words mirror my own experience so closely, they've left me happily stunned. It's not that I don't know that many must have such powerful experiences, but that where I live no one ever talks about it. It's not only refreshing to hear someone else's direct experience, but to have it so closely match my own is something of a gift, if that makes sense. Thank you so much for that.

    For me it was Mahakaleshwar, and it was like standing in the middle of a live transformer. I was with friends at the time, and none of them noticed anything.
    I've never felt anything so powerful, the closest to it in memory was a very long time ago. I too was changed beyond any doubts or questions, and also haven't lost any access or strength to the connection that was opened that day.

    Pranam-s, kind sir.

    ~~~

    Namaskar Yajvanji,

    I echo Mana's thanks. If not for this thread, I would not have had the gift of his post, but what's more this thread has given me a lot of food for reading and thought, something I always love. Particularly your link a few posts back to the Vastu Design Seminar link regarding time, that is amazing and is going to take some time to consider and digest...

    As to the question at hand, I'm afraid I am, (unsurprisingly), no help at all. I am too new to actual fact and scripture to try and dissect language and concepts and so cannot speak to them. As ever, there is far too much to learn and sometimes it feels like no time for it all.

    I did find This Article to offer. I found it interesting, but it doesn't cite any references so may not be accurate. I'm going to bet it's nothing new to you though, and may only be of interest to others following this thread.
    Instinct tells me there is indeed some simple unifying principle buried at the heart of all the layers of meaning - and there seem to be many here. I hope you share when you find it, this is very interesting.

    Pranam-s
    ~~~~~
    What has Learning profited a man, if it has not led him to worship the good feet of Him who is pure knowledge itself?
    They alone dispel the mind's distress, who take refuge at the feet of the incomparable one.
    ~~Tirukural 2, 7

    Anbe Sivamayam, Satyame Parasivam

  6. #16
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    Re: garbha gṛha & other interesting things

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté


    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post

    An interesting note (for me) is the following.
    • The maṇḍala of 9 x 9 = 81 squares.
    • The maṇḍala of 8 X 8 = 64 squares
    These ~squares~ are on the ground, is it possible to relate them to some astrological place?
    Why square ?





    iti śiva
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  7. #17

    Re: garbha gṛha & other interesting things

    om gurave namaḥ


    Dear Aanandinii,

    Thank you for sharing your experience also; we all perceive so very differently, it is wonderful to find common ground in our experience. It is a curious thing; I find that my sensibilities, which are so energised in these moments, can be so debilitating for me at other times.
    I cried with joy during this moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aanandinii View Post
    ... For me it was Mahakaleshwar, and it was like standing in the middle of a live transformer. I was with friends at the time, and none of them noticed anything.
    I've never felt anything so powerful, the closest to it in memory was a very long time ago. I too was changed beyond any doubts or questions, and also haven't lost any access or strength to the connection that was opened that day.
    I feel blessed to have heard with such vibrancy, the timbre of such ancient verse as these, channelled in such an endearing place.

    One of the shanti hymns from the Rk veda which was sung that I truly adore; I must try to learn to recite it also.

    Kind regards.

  8. #18

    Re: garbha gṛha & other interesting things

    om gurave namaḥ

    Dear Yajvan,

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    Why square ?
    Could it be that the square of the kendra lends its self to stability, where as the trine implies a rotation or vibration, thus change, and as such is not ideal for something that we desire to resist the flow and ebb of time?

    Is that not sarvatobhadra chakra that I see? The wording and interior of the yantra differs though, how fascinating.



    Kind regards.
    Last edited by Mana; 06 January 2014 at 05:57 AM.

  9. #19
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    Re: garbha gṛha & other interesting things

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté


    Quote Originally Posted by Mana View Post
    Could it be that the square of the kendra lends its self to stability, where as the trine implies a rotation or vibration, thus change, and as such is not ideal for something that we desire to resist the flow and ebb of time?
    A jyotish view
    • trikoṇa -s - the 1st ,5th, and 9th houses are owned (lorded) by śrī lakmī (prosperity)
    • kendra-s - the 1st 4th, 7th and 10th are owned by śrī viṣṇi (sustenance of all creation)
    trikoṇa = trine = triangle or 120º shape change
    kendra = quadrant = square 90º shape change

    Other views
    A triangle is most stable - each side is a base that can support the other two sides. A square or ~ quad~ if dissected corner-to-corner is composed or contains two triangles.

    Some say a square is the best use of space; others say the square has two horizontal and two vertical lines - inferring perfect rest (horizontal) with vertical lines of movement, yet too the vertical lines are restful.
    Others tell us the 4 sided figure is a representation of the 4 dimensions and the 4 directions. Still others infer the 4 pūruṣārthara-s or four aims of existence or human pursuit : kāma ,artha , dharma , mokṣa.
    I have also heard the 4 sided figure represents the 5 tattva-s, with the 5th tattva being the space inside the 4 sided figure and/or the space that allows the 4 sided figure to exist.

    As you can see this square is rich in meaning, and the specific ~exact~ meaning may still be at hand.

    iti śiva
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  10. #20

    Re: garbha gṛha & other interesting things

    Dear Yajvan,

    I thought this to be of interest also.

    The Diamond which is one of the hardest forms of "material" or pRithvi on this earth, has a molecular structure, an explicative mathematical model; in which each molecule is connected to four others to establish the extremely solid and stable form of the tetrahedral.

    5 molecules, with 4 bonds.




    It is of interest here to mention that the pRithvi tattva maṇḍala of mūlādhāra cakra as sited in the śāradā tilaka tantram, as being visualised upon a yellow square with a white crystal inside meditated upon with the laṁ bija.

    Fascinating imagery and practise, I believe deeply connected with the establishment of temples.

    Kind regards.

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