View Poll Results: Are you of the view that Doniger's Novel should have been banned?

Voters
7. You may not vote on this poll
  • 3 42.86%
  • nei

    4 57.14%
  • alveg sama

    0 0%
Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 53

Thread: Timeline from Wendy Doniger's "The Hindus"

  1. #11
    Join Date
    September 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Age
    70
    Posts
    7,191
    Rep Power
    5038

    Re: Timeline from Wendy Doniger's "The Hindus"

    Vannakkam: Good news. Too bad they don't pull it off the shelves in America. History is slanted all over. The Amerindian (indigenous peoples here) history is generally written from the white conqueror POV. The atrocities are often ignored completely.

    Aum Namasivaya

  2. #12
    Join Date
    October 2012
    Location
    Bhaarath
    Age
    51
    Posts
    1,113
    Rep Power
    1502

    Post Re: Timeline from Wendy Doniger's "The Hindus"

    Namaste HDF,

    I think we are giving unnecessary space to this so called freedom of expression. In addition to Omkara's consolidated list, I am adding a link which has dissected the so called freedom of expression.


    @ JS ji,

    There are many news portals which has published this and a lot has already been discussed... When we all agree that this kind of freedom expression kill Santana Dharma, unknowingly deliver our own judgement...Then we all will take sides leading to a unhealthy discussion... I have observed that in the past we simply end up defending our views missing the underlying point.


    @ Satay ji

    Thank you very much....
    Anirudh...

  3. #13
    Join Date
    January 2010
    Location
    tadvishno paramam padam
    Age
    38
    Posts
    2,168
    Rep Power
    2547

    Re: Timeline from Wendy Doniger's "The Hindus"

    I believe in the freedom of speech, but I also believe in the freedom not to publish garbage. A publisher is allowed to have certain standards. Anyone comparing this to the ban of Salman Rushdie's novel has an IQ below their shoe size. There is a difference between a political ban and a publisher or journal deciding that a book or article is below their standards.
    Last edited by Sahasranama; 12 February 2014 at 12:10 PM.

  4. #14

    Re: Timeline from Wendy Doniger's "The Hindus"

    Good piece by Koenraad Elst on this topic:

    http://www.hinduhumanrights.info/ban...rs-the-hindus/
    "One who makes a habit of prayer and meditation will easily overcome all difficulties and remain calm and unruffled in the midst of the trials of life." (Holy Mother Sarada Devi)

  5. #15
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    bhUloka
    Posts
    250
    Rep Power
    358

    Re: Timeline from Wendy Doniger's "The Hindus"

    Am I the only one who finds it ironic that I happened to mention this same text only a couple days before it was banned?
    படைபோர் புக்கு முழங்கும்அப் பாஞ்சசன்னியமும் பல்லாண்டே
    May your pA~nchajanya shankha which reverberates on the battlefield, last thousands upon thousands of years...
    http://archives.mirroroftomorrow.org...anchajanya.jpg

  6. #16

    Re: Timeline from Wendy Doniger's "The Hindus"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaskaran Singh View Post
    Am I the only one who finds it ironic that I happened to mention this same text only a couple days before it was banned?
    The book was not banned. It was just pulled back by the publisher. It's still available for purchase online in e-book format.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    March 2006
    Location
    mrityuloka
    Age
    52
    Posts
    3,729
    Rep Power
    337

    Re: Timeline from Wendy Doniger's "The Hindus"

    Namaste
    Kudos to the group that got it pulled for all its effort. We need to see more of this type of effort and organization.
    satay

  8. #18
    Join Date
    February 2012
    Posts
    1,525
    Rep Power
    2741

    Re: Timeline from Wendy Doniger's "The Hindus"

    Namaste

    I never heard of this author before, I am being perfectly honest saying that, and this is coming from someone who often haunts the "Hinduism" section of various book stores that have an "Eastern Religions" theme to them.

    So I think the importance of this book, if it were to have any among those who are interested in Hinduism, is over blown perhaps. But as a result of this subject of this author (already forgot how to spell her name, it is sort of an odd name to remember how to spell), and particularly the "banning" of this book which has now actually brought it's name into the public eye for which it would likely not have had otherwise, as a subject on several forums (mostly against the accuracy of the content, but a lot of focus on the recent "ban"), now I came to recognize the name of this author and this book which has, to tell the truth, taken on a life (a second life) of it's own, suddenly appearing all over the internet, in PDF format etc.. I am not supporting this book, I had or have no interest in it.

    But it is now getting more attention than ever, and you can download it for free which apparently a lot are doing now and probably the attention to this book is on the rise which never would have happened before, it wouldn't surprise me if the subject of this book becomes a content of a cable History Channel or Discovery Channel next in a couple of years. This "ban" is not a ban, you cannot ban anything in 2014 in today's inter-connected world and such "bans" drive more attention to it.

    There is no ban, it has already started to fail, and brought more attention to it. I agree, with Believer, Hindus should nuw better prepare their counter points and truth tests because I think it will be given more attention now than before.

    Om Namah Sivaya
    Last edited by ShivaFan; 14 February 2014 at 05:50 PM.

  9. #19

    Re: Timeline from Wendy Doniger's "The Hindus"

    I have very mixed feelings about this. If this is a sign of Hindus growing self-awareness and a movement towards greater political influence to safeguard essential Hindu values I applaud it. That is really necessary, especially as I see how Brahmins are discriminated these days. But i think the means chosen here are wrong. Hinduism is widely known to be a pluralist, tolerant, respectful religion. So why is it now using the kind of means we come to expect from fundamentalist Muslims? How can you claim to be pluralist and tolerant when you can no longer tolerate different views?

    Many people seem to overlook that the full title of the book is "The Hindus, an alternative view". So the book does not at all claim to give a final or majority view on Hinduism, far from it. but in present day climate there is no room for a alternative view in the eyes of Hindu fundamentalist, especially if it comes from westerners. So the concept of "Hinduism" is now moving from a pluralist religion with widely different ideas into a national movement with a uniform ideology. This kind of destruction of Hindu longstanding values and virtues is more than Islam or Christianity can even hope to achieve.

    People celebrate this as a victory? Really? It will not stop here. I think it made Hinduism more vulnerable than ever. From now on Christians are going to challenge Hindus even more, hoping for ever more intolerant reactions by Nationalists feeling in the winning mood. And as Nationalist organize their protests it will televised and sent around the world. And soon the world will think that Hindus are no different than Muslims and full of fundamentalists that can not tolerate different views.

    And for what? Is this book an attack on Hinduism like some people try to make it believe by carefully collecting every detail that is wrong or not flattering in their personal view of impeccable Hinduism? No it is not. They totally overlook that the book, as bizarre as it may seem, is also full of love for Hinduism.

    The ideas people have about history are often idealistic. For instance they believe that objective history is millennial old science. It is not, it is so recent it is still under heavy development. In ancient times history was simply what people wanted to believe about their past. Often kings ordered scholars to write a great history. When priest started to live in the courts of Kings they no longer were independent writers. So even if we have old scriptures, the fact that they are old does not mean they describe facts. In those days this was not even perceived as lying or deceiving. If people felt that that is how it must have been, they considered it truth. So scriptures can not be used as facts, because the people of that time or later considered them to be true. Today we live in a different consciousness.

    But even so, what is fact in these matters? Even if we have abundance of information that does not create objective views. For instance, what is the present situation in Afghanistan? The only real fact is that Americans and Afghans are fighting other Afghans supported by others. but why? Is it a peace operation, an attempt to combat terrorism and religions extremist? Or is an invasion for whatever reasons? Not even the Afghans could give you a unanimous answer to this as they are divided along political, tribal lines. And we know very little of all the intrigue going on behind the curtains. So how are we going to write objective history about this centuries from now, if we can not come to a clear view right now?

    Yes, we can summon dry facts, that Americans invade the country after as attack on the twin towers etc. But even that can be misleading. What facts do we present and what facts do we leave out, this can change the whole picture. And it does not tell us anything meaningful. Is does not make us understand the situation.

    That is why some modern historians look for a new approach to history. In stead of creating the illusion of an overall objective historical view, they try to create an picture what life must have been like for certain people. They try to empathize into these people. Of course this is very subjective. And it easily leads to disgust from people when they describe practices that are at odds with present day moral. But you do not have to agree with it. It does not claim to be objective facts. And it is likely to be very different of what you expect, because it is an attempt to get an inside view from people that lived long ago in different circumstances. It is a thought experiment based on remains, our knowledge of similar people, and empathy. Even if it is mostly wrong, it can still give us insights. It is an interesting approach.

    Of course this is not the nationalist idea of history. Nationalist only wants to hear about the great achievements of the ancestors. Tell us about the great victories of the ahimsa vegetarian warriors that created an empire and benignly ruled India holding up the religion that believed in the one supreme God from the dawn of man and held on to present day sexual moral. Everything else is an insult to present day Hinduism.

    Now if the book was a schoolbook imposed on the youth full of ideas to purposely make Hinduism look ridiculous, I would understand the resistance. But this is simply one of the many books on Hinduism by a foreigner. What is probably the most shameful about it, is that most of these books are written abroad either by westerners or Indian migrants. Maybe Indian scholars find it to difficult or risky to overstep the boundaries of their own traditions to write such books or they are too dry to be attractive to a broader audience. So a broad view on Hinduism mostly comes from people out of India. Which is then translated as foreign supremacism. Nationalist Hindus seem to have missed that decolonization also changed a lot in western thinking, often overturning previous notions. No, they want to see colonialist attacks whenever something is written that is not flattering.

    So now Hindu Nationalist are challenged to write their own heroic account of Indian history that does not contain any passage that somehow reflects negatively on Hinduism or Hindus. I guess this is something going to be along the lines of the super-race of the Hindu Indian, in all respects superior to the rest of human kind that is full of short-comings that Hindus have been lacking for thousands of years. When this book is written critics will have a field day.

    I think Hindus underestimate how these kind of actions will reflect on the reputation of Hinduism. To westerners such actions bring back memories of the book burnings of the Catholic church, Nazis, Communists and Islamists. That is the company one is choosing. Reputation is easily damaged by foolish actions. How is it possible that the same Indian nation that has the greatness not to seek revenge for Islamic terrorist attacks, goes berserk over a fairly innocent book?

    And by the way, whatever nationalists hoped to accomplish, I doubt it was to stop the book. In the few days after the withdrawal it created a big row on twitter and sold more copies than in all the years before. So the big victory for nationalists seems to be that they were able to rally people behind their provoking action, further encouraging them to show the world what intolerant people Hindus are. For Christian missionaries this suicide of reputation must be a God sent gift. Who knows they may even sponsor them to do more foolish things.

    Maybe these Hindus will not digest my reaction too well either. But by the time a religion is controlled by people that start to preach, you are either for us or against us, I am long gone. That is the dark side of organized religion: nationalism. It is not that I believe Hinduism as a whole is moving in that direction, but some groups in Hinduism are moving in that direction. It is for the other Hindus to decide if they want to allow nationalists to become their spokespersons. If they do, I think they will learn to regret it.

    I personally find the whole action shameful and out of character for what Hindu traditions have stood for. But then maybe I am guilty of idealizing too.
    Last edited by Avyaydya; 14 February 2014 at 08:41 PM.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    bhUloka
    Posts
    250
    Rep Power
    358

    Re: Timeline from Wendy Doniger's "The Hindus"

    Quote Originally Posted by Avyaydya View Post
    So now Hindu Nationalist are challenged to write their own heroic account of Indian history that does not contain any passage that somehow reflects negatively on Hinduism or Hindus. I guess this is something going to be along the lines of the super-race of the Hindu Indian, in all respects superior to the rest of human kind that is full of short-comings that Hindus have been lacking for thousands of years.
    You don't need a book, HLK's posts more than suffice.
    படைபோர் புக்கு முழங்கும்அப் பாஞ்சசன்னியமும் பல்லாண்டே
    May your pA~nchajanya shankha which reverberates on the battlefield, last thousands upon thousands of years...
    http://archives.mirroroftomorrow.org...anchajanya.jpg

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •