Hindu Visionaries

[Believer]

Namaste,

We have a fair amount of Indologists, Hinduologists, Advaita/Dvaita/Tri-vaita/Quad-vaita Pundits, Agama/Sha-gama/Tantra followers, Kundalini experts and Shruti/Samriti sages, pass through the HDF. By and large everyone agrees that if you ask 10 Hindus a question, you will get 10 different answers. The reason is that no one is talking from personal experience/realizations. Either they read some book, or followed a Guru for some time and think that they have become self-realized souls and are an authority on whatever their Guru (a realized soul) talked about, or have done one or more stints in some ashram in India thereby claiming to have become 'Hindu Visionaries' by experiencing the soul of Hinduism, or are obstinate 'Native Hindus' who think that the converts have no business giving expert opinions about Hinduism. So, why can't we just express 10 different Hindu opinions on every issue and let go at that, instead of trying to prove everyone else wrong. 10 Hindus (NOT new age Universalists/Freelance thinkers), 10 different Hindu opinions, without any acrimonious debate sounds something fair and natural. Of course by definition, a direct quotation from shashtras (with proper references), trumps everyone else.

A simple, illiterate Hindu peasant in a village, who just visits a temple to take a bow before the Lord and says a silent prayer is far more spiritual than any of us. The real spiritualists don't go around the digital universe, peppering various websites with long, convoluted, acrimonious diatribes, in the name of educating everyone. We are only fooling ourselves by waging 'wars of words' and trying to prove that my 'book knowledge' is better than yours. People 'in love', either with another human being or with God, don't go about advertising how much 'in love' they are (mohabbat jo karte hain vo, mohabbat jatate nahin, dhadhkane apne dil ki kabhee, kisee ko sunaate nahin). Service and practice mold a person, not mere reading and memorization of a set of books.

A scene from the movie Gandhi comes to mind in this regard. As one of the speakers addressing the masses, he said something like, 'We come here and make speeches to impress one another, but it makes no difference to the common peasants who toil everyday under the hot sun'. We can lay out our finest thoughts and compete with everyone else, but make no mistake, that it does not in any way alter the landscape of Hindu thought and practices. A peasant's dedication and humility will eclipse our 'proud peacock tails' any day.

Pranam.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

Originally Posted by Believer

Namaste,

that if you ask 10 Hindus a question, you will get 10 different answers. The reason is that no one is talking from personal experience/realizations.

So, why can't we just express 10 different opinions on every issue and let go at that, instead of trying to prove everyone else wrong. 10 Hindus (NOT new age Universalists), 10 different opinions, without any acrimonious debate sounds something fair and natural. Of course by definition, a direct quotation from shashtras (with proper references), trumps everyone else.

With your kind permission I'd like to offer the following idea(s):

Yudhiṣṭhira says the following:
...the sruti-s are different from one another; there is not even one ṛṣi whose opinion can be accepted by all; the truth about religion and duty is hid in caves: therefore, that alone is the path along which the great have trod.' - mahābhārata, yakṣa¹ prasna

Knowledge is vast, ideas are vast and even among the wise, their knowledge may vary on how they describe the Supreme. What of us then who wish to do some justice to this wisdom, what is the best we can do ? We practice.

Yet the challange is this, knowledge being so vast comes in on ~basically~ 3 different levels. Let's use the mahābhārata as the example and the wisdom that lies within it; we see it on 3 levels:

• The physical level - this would be the fight of good vs. bad, right and wrong, the big oppressing the small, the strong oppressing the weak. One could say this occurs on the individual, social, national levels and can be seen via the senses.

• The mental level - that of thoughts, ideas, tendencies, behaviors, traits, manas or mind, intellect (buddhi), etc. We can even place meditation on this level. The ~battle~ of the senses drawing one into the field of matter vs. inward to calmness, to steadiness towards the direction of the Self.

• The spiritual level - this is the level of the devata, yet we as spiritual beings can also be found here as one experiences samādhi, perfect silence, etc. Now we have that tendency for union ( yukti, yoga) with the Supreme, yet the ego may get in the way , or the subtler kośa's or even other impulses of nature that may restrict this ability.

So , when we talk of the mahābhārata we're inferring those forces, tendencies, etc. that restrict or divert ( detour) and influnce the human condition. Yet the mahābhārata at the same time teaches those social rules and individual rules of proper habit and actions ( dharma).


When we talk there is an ocean of ideas, and many people talk on different levels to different people on differnt levels. This gives us the grand diversity we experience here on HDF. Sometimes its a joy to be in a conversation, other times, well, not so much.


Last item - humans are compelled to action and this is the force of rago-guna at play. One HDF idea spins to another and then to another - this is the play of rago-guna ( for the verdāntists) and the play of śakti and the mātṛkā-s¹ from a kaśmiri śaivism point of view.


praṇām

words

• yakṣa - a living supernatural being , of a class of semi-divine beings
• mātṛ or mātṛkā - the divine mothers or śakti energies ; some call out 7, 8 , 16, etc. devatā

[Jainarayan]

Namaste Believer.

Originally Posted by Believer

A simple, illiterate Hindu peasant in a village, who just visits a temple to take a bow before the Lord and says a silent prayer is far more spiritual than any of us. ... Service and practice mold a person, not mere reading and memorization.

Very nice.

May I quote Lord Krishna? I believe these quotes support your comments about that illiterate peasant showing simple devotion, and that it is often best.

"Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend." Bhagavad Gita 18.65

"Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear." Bhagavad Gita 18.66

Simple, honest bhakti without the confusion and "my sadhana can beat up your sadhana" is far better imo than debating things above the heads of some of us (of which I am often guilty ).

[sm78]

I must have missed some action lately as it seems some humble peasant feathers have been ruffled on witnessing visionaries fight it out. Humble and simple is helpless amidst these egos & complex knowledge battles, which are without bhakti.

One may wonder why is humble always tripping over all these ego's? Tut tut! On contrary this tripping over other's egos and irritation for knowledge/debate is the proof of the humble being humble, simple being simple and devotion being devotion. And honking it in separate threads in long posts, which are free of ego and content (their by being humble, simple, content free, although long) perhaves further attest to the fact of superiority of humble over ego, content-free over knowledge, simple peasantry over complex punditry. Good good.

[Mana]

Namaste Believer, All

Please excuse my zeal for certain topics of discussion, I humbly beg your forgiveness if I have offended any here in any way.

Thank you for this thread. Could it be said: our collective ego is shuffling in his seat and has shifted just a little, moving weight from one place to another, to allow for more peaceful meditation. This forum is so dear to me and as dear yajvan has so wisely suggested. It does allow for discussion; which naturally leads to practise, that which is of the greatest value to any child within the arms of this collective we call HDF.

Having once been very badly treated, with regards to the development of my belief; my non linear mind makes no differentiation and thus they are seen as being very closely related subjects.

Were it not for a certain tenacity and belief in myself, rising from within; I would still be making regular visits to a hospital, and taking very strong brain damaging prescription drugs, to correct my non linear brain. At once convinced of my insanity, affirmed by the regular repetition of the mantra that was at that time at that time given, was I wrong to cover my ears?

If I appear rude or ego centred; I humbly ask that you consider this a reaction against these karma's, as a child still learning to walk I might fall; I am trying.
Mine is a predicament of Western Adharma; these are the demons that I must face.

Action, I should like to venture that the fires of spent karma mixed with an accumulation of wind, might be at fault not much more or less.

The Bhakti that I have for the beauty and placement of the eyes on the tail of any peacock, might we find this same spacing or similar amongst the events of our threads, our collective thought; reflection?

Is this form of love not any less than that of The love of Radha Krishna for her Lord!

I humbly beg your forgiveness.


praNAma

mana

[NayaSurya]

Mana, to see the peacock eye within everything may make others call you crazy. But, some will call it Divine.

It is Divine, Beloved.

Believer, you are something which this realm is sorely lacking. We need more you in this realm.

The Portions directly under your care must have done something so sublimely good in their past incarnations to have been given a you to guide them this time.

Unfortunately, all I have this life time is these very mundane experiences and realizations. It was the only way to move on...to drain whatever knowledge I could out of these wretched years. It made them valuable.

This forum, is an oportunity to get a fuller perspective of this Truth...and a clever, scrappy Portion would do well to squeeze it for every single bit of knowledge.

Even all these opinions, when placed together side by side...create a mosaic of this Truth. From a place not so close....standing back from the drama...looking at those opinions side by side...there is an amazing picture which develops. From this...you can find a Source of great knowledge.

This may be long, but half the time I am not even in control of these things which flow from my own two hands. I was in the bathroom after reading these posts...I have pneumonia and have been very ill. However there in this moment I was given a reply to this thread...as I prayed.

It came flooding out and I came to place it down.

I have been more pensive lately about posts..as I nearly have reached 1008.


But this was such an important thread. It speaks upon kindness...compassion as we help others along. You can have the wisest being in the world...and if he has not compassion to help others...how will he teach anything?

My nephew recently was discovered to be a genius. At 9 he was moved to the highest math class the highschool had...and it was still not enough. But, this child...this genius...hits little children....kicked my 10 year old son in his privates. To this I say...

You can not be much of a genius if you can not control the simple animal you ride within...and so it goes for all.

If you can not control this beast...and you allow it to color...to taint everything which you say and do....then you are no better than this beast you ride within.

May Beloved grant each of us the ability to rise above this beast and fully take the reins.


Beloved, I truly do Love you...in every sundry incarnation, I do.

Hari Om<3

[Eastern Mind]

Originally Posted by NayaSurya

You can not be much of a genius if you can not control the simple animal you ride within...and so it goes for all.

Vannakkam Naya ... as Mr. Burns would say ... "Ehhhxcellent."

Reminds me of several times and situations in my life. Even yesterday something like this happened. Maybe every day.

Aum Namasivaya