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Thread: Reincarnation and Karma in the Veda Samahita

  1. #11
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    Re: Reincarnation and Karma in the Veda Samahita

    Quote Originally Posted by MahaHrada View Post
    Of course after dissolving the elements of his impermanent body and leaving it behind, he gains another subtle body to go to pitris.... O Agni, to the Fathers send him....

    The sukta begins with the following verses:
    3 The Sun receive thine eye, the Wind thy spirit; go, as thy merit is, to earth or heaven. . Go, if it be thy lot, unto the waters; go, make thine home in plants with all thy members
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


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  2. #12
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    Re: Reincarnation and Karma in the Veda Samahita

    Quote Originally Posted by Omkara View Post
    3 The Sun receive thine eye, the Wind thy spirit; go, as thy merit is, to earth or heaven. . Go, if it be thy lot, unto the waters; go, make thine home in plants with all thy members
    This as you can see is a description of the death and cremation process, and "merit" here means that each element must go to the correct cosmic element and not somewhere else, that is individual breath to cosmic air, individual limbs to the plants, because plants for instance trees are the limbs of the earth because they grow out of it, like the limbs grow out of the torso etc. So each element goes to its own place according to his "merit."

    This is important since, the "rahasyam" of this vedic verse is that if you want to gain a cosmic body after death, you have to leave the egocentric attitude behind, to achieve that you have to map the parts of the individual body in a sort of "nyasa" to the corresponding part of the cosmic body to identify both. To prevent doing that in a wrong way, due to your delusion and map for instance the breath to a wrong cosmic element, this is mentioned explictly.

    In case you doubt that it is the cremation fire that is adressed in the first part of the sukta, you look at the part that follows where this "flesh eating agni" is send away.

    9 I send afar flesh eating Agni, bearing off stains may he depart to Yama's subjects.
    But let this other Jātavedas carry oblation to the Gods, for he is skilful.
    Last edited by MahaHrada; 09 March 2013 at 08:00 AM.

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    Re: Reincarnation and Karma in the Veda Samahita

    Quote Originally Posted by MahaHrada View Post

    This as you can see is a description of the death and cremation process, and "merit" here means that each element must go to the correct cosmic element and not somewhere else, that is individual breath to cosmic air, individual limbs to the plants, because plants for instance trees are the limbs of the earth because they grow out of it, like the limbs grow out of the torso etc. So each element goes to its own place according to his "merit."
    Anyone getting a sense of deja vu here? This is even worse than your claim that 'Yatha Purvam' does not mean 'as before'.

    The person being addressed is clearly stated to be the posessor of various organs(The Sun receive thine eye, the Wind thy spirit). Thus the person being addressed is the person who is burning on the pyre. Then, it is said- Go, as thy merit is, to earth or heaven. How is it that the person being addressed changed suddenly to the organs?(According to your interpretation)
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


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    Re: Reincarnation and Karma in the Veda Samahita

    RV 1.164.38 The immortal cognate with the mortal, affected by (desire of)
    enjoyment, goes to the lower or the upper sphere.
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


    A Shaivite library
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    Re: Reincarnation and Karma in the Veda Samahita

    Quote Originally Posted by Omkara View Post
    Anyone getting a sense of deja vu here? This is even worse than your claim that 'Yatha Purvam' does not mean 'as before'.

    The person being addressed is clearly stated to be the posessor of various organs(The Sun receive thine eye, the Wind thy spirit). Thus the person being addressed is the person who is burning on the pyre. Then, it is said- Go, as thy merit is, to earth or heaven. How is it that the person being addressed changed suddenly to the organs?(According to your interpretation)
    It is clearly said in this sukta, where the person is destined to be going, and that several times:

    O Jātavedas, when thou hast matured him, then send him on his way unto the Fathers.
    2 When thou hast made him ready, Jātavedas, then do thou give him over to the Fathers.
    o Jātavedas, bear this man to the region of the pious.
    Again, O Agni, to the Fathers send him

    So how more often has this to repeated, in such a short sukta until you realise that it is birth among the pitris, where the destination of the non corporal part of the deceased is and that it is solely the corporal, the impermanent, that is returned to the cosmic elements that once originated them?

    Prior to that transformation his individual constituting elements dissolve and return to the universee, see the Mundaka upanishad which presents cognate ideas.

    The fire is his head, the sun and moon his eyes; the dimensions of space his ears; his speech emitted the veda-s, the air is his breath; all existence his heart. From his feet emerged the earth; he is verily the inner consciousness of all beings.

    Mundaka upanishad

  6. #16

    Re: Reincarnation and Karma in the Veda Samahita

    I agree with Omkar on this one. This is clearly describing birth and rebirth based on one's puNyam or pApam. This description is reminiscent of the one given in chAndogya upaniShad of the living entity who goes to heaven and then comes down as rain, is ingested via grains, and planted within the womb via seminal discharge.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

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    Re: Reincarnation and Karma in the Veda Samahita

    Quote Originally Posted by philosoraptor View Post
    I agree with Omkar on this one. This is clearly describing birth and rebirth based on one's puNyam or pApam.
    Thats a surprise i thought you agree with me as usual

    In Sanskrit there is no mention of papam or punyam but it properly says "according to its destination".

    sUryam cakshur gachatu vAtam AtmA dyAM ca gacha prithivim ca dharmaNA
    apo vA gacha yadi tatra te hitam osHadhIshu prati tistha sharIraiH
    Last edited by MahaHrada; 09 March 2013 at 10:40 AM.

  8. #18

    Re: Reincarnation and Karma in the Veda Samahita

    Quote Originally Posted by MahaHrada View Post
    Thats a surprise i thought you agree with me as usual
    Maybe some day when I'm old and senile...
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

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    Re: Reincarnation and Karma in the Veda Samahita

    Namaste Maha,

    Quote Originally Posted by MahaHrada View Post
    This as you can see is a description of the death and cremation process, and "merit" here means that each element must go to the correct cosmic element
    Where are you getting this stuff from?

    Doctrine of karma is in the Vedas is clearly shown by swami devananda Giri in the 'Vedic culture' book I mentioned.
    satay

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    Re: Reincarnation and Karma in the Veda Samahita

    Quote Originally Posted by satay View Post
    Namaste Maha,



    Where are you getting this stuff from?

    Doctrine of karma is in the Vedas is clearly shown by swami devananda Giri in the 'Vedic culture' book I mentioned.
    I studied these subjects since i was about six years old in this life, it is therefore from 50 years of almost constant study and practice that is where i get "this stuff" from.

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