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Thread: Bhakthi or is it a business transaction?

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    Bhakthi or is it a business transaction?

    Namaste HDF

    From time to time members share what they felt during their first visit to temple. Any thing (good or bad) that we undergo or do for the first time is a special experience. For example the first touch of your child or first kiss is a special experience.

    The same activity when repeatedly done doesn't exited us as much it did on the first instance. Likewise I have seen the same effect occuring in the case of daily temple visit or daily prayer or even looking at the Sun rise. I observed the same effect in other people life as well.

    In Tamizh there is a saying "Pazhaga pazhaga paalum puLikkum" roughly translated as if you continue to drink milk for quite some time, even milk will taste like a sour food.

    Why a Krishna temple, on a Janmaaahtami should exite us differently.? A slokam is a slokam whether it is read for the first time or on a special occasion or everyday in your home. Of late started wondering why our mind reacts in this way.

    Great devotees and Saints never seemed to have gone through this feeling. It fascinated me when I learnt in those days every day they use walk a very long distance only to "fan" a deity idol or to bath an idol with 108 buckets of water.

    Is our mind bored with the repetition? Are we doing business with Bhagwaan under the Prayer mask?

    My intellect/ego doesn't allow me to think that I have got tired of Bhakthi but my reactions doesn't support my thinking. I am sure many would have experienced what I have explained it here.

    Have you ever asked yourself why you felt that way?
    Last edited by Anirudh; 11 September 2014 at 10:16 PM.
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Bhakthi or is it a business transaction?

    Dear Anirudh.,

    Interesting observation and repetition is boring! But repeating what?

    Do we get bored of eating?
    Do we get bored of sleeping?

    Mostly no until unless we over do these things right. Biological necessity when done properly does not bore us as it becomes a must activity. The same eating when you are diseased, does bore you because, a "diet" or restriction in food makes it boring activity even though we can't stop eating. Eating is just to maintain the physical body and even then it gets old, get disease and challenges the desire to eat.

    Bhakthi, is very much like for the soul what eating and sleeping is for the physical body. Since there is nothing else subtler than Soul, no external agent can affect the soul and the engagement is with absolute Bhagavan so there is no room for any disturbance or dull moments. So, whatever you do with Bhakthi (as Kaninkaryam to Lord), it is always fulfilling and joyful and time or count does not matter.

    Hare Krshna!

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    Re: Bhakthi or is it a business transaction?

    Dear Anirudh ji,

    I am not very clear of your question. I guess you are saying, with repetitive prayers each day being somewhat boring, what motivates people from doing them every day -- is it bhakti or is it because they want to please the deity for materialistic goals? Please correct me if I am wrong in my understanding of your question.

    To me, bhakti started as a spontaneous flow towards Lord Sri Venkateswara in my early 20's, when I faced some undue fear and danger. It was persistent danger to my entire being (in Jyotish I underwent Atmakaraka dasha which is very tough), and my instincts naturally took me to Sri Venkateswara for Abhayam. This was the period when I used to wake up at 5 AM in the morning, bathe, and do puja to Sri Venkateswara, and to Sun god using flowers (archana) and then rush to college. I did this for a period of 2 1/2 yrs. During this period, I was rewarded with some wonderful dreams of Sri Balaji which greatly increased the firmness of my faith in him. In one dream for instance, (this was when I was unmarried), I was holding arms with another man and we were walking up along a narrow strip of a way amidst a giant ocean and when we reached the tip, we turned around to face a mountain-tall Sri Balaji at the horizon! I felt extremely blessed at this darshan of swami, but my trials still continued. Hence I too to mantra japa of Ashtakshari nama of Sri Vishnu constantly within my mind 24 * 7 each day for a period of 1 yr. And Lo! My troubles STOPPED one fine day when I met my hubby and he agreed to marry me! Owing to some personal details that I do not wish to disclose, to me this marriage proposal came as a boon and I was firm in my conviction it was my devotion that yielded this favorable outcome when I most needed it.

    After marriage, I was caught with career for 10 yrs. During this period my bhakti diminished.

    But suddenly, over the last 5 yrs, I had some visions and some spiritual experience which sparked the divine in me which had become dormant. I woke up, thanking god for having sent me the visions, and have been faithfully practicing bhakti yoga by singing lord's name, reciting slokas, doing puja and bhajan each day for an hour. Some days, this seems like a chore than anything else. Some days I feel the peacefulness, the tranquility and the power of devotion so much that my heart fills with all the yearning for him and her that I go beyond and do much more than my regular routine. There are days that I skip my sadhana too. But these days, it has become a habit which for me will bring BOTH materialistic wishes as well as help me in my spiritual progress. And what are the materialistic wishes I yearn for from god? None of them are mine, I wish for my Schyzophrenic nephew, my other nephew who is between jobs, my mother, my sister, lastly my children. So if you see, I am doing this ultimately as a 'nishkamya karma', a desireless action for the welfare of others. There are many days I pray for total outsiders too, like my divorced friend going through a tough time. An year ago, I spent a week for her reciting 'Sundara Kanda'. I am doing all this, because out of these, I want Lord's mercy towards me, in helping me getting rid of impurities of my mind so that I can ascend spiritually. I do have hopes and wishes of materialistic kind for myself too, but those are not possible to be fulfilled in this birth, for I am aware of my own flaws. I have wish that I become a profoundly better person, and be in a position to serve people, in the coming births, and also alongside live a life that will satisfy my material wishes, and finally to reach the abode of god in some subsequent lifetime without further ado!

    So to summarize - I want to get better in this lifetime first, get as much rid of my personality flaws as possible, get materialistically and spiritually an evolved soul in few subsequent births and finally attain moksha! And I want this for all my beloved ones. These are my goals for bhakti.

    Sarvam Sri Krishnarpanamastu!
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: Bhakthi or is it a business transaction?

    Vannakkam: I think this 'getting bored' idea varies on the person. I undertook daily temple visits for a year, and I can honestly say i never got bored. Others may well have had different experiences in that situation.

    For me, an analogy is eating. We're hungry, we eat, we feel satisfied, then 6 hours later the whole thing starts again. Has our hunger become boring? So the temple for me is like that. It feeds the soul body.

    Not all of life is like this however, because certain esperiences are 'once is enough'. The satiation of the desire is complete. For example, if you have a goal of going on a particular pilgrimage to a particular temple, and you accomplish that, then that desire doesn't well up a year later.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Bhakthi or is it a business transaction?

    Namaste Games,

    Do we get bored of eating?
    Do we get bored of sleeping?
    Exactly.... We don't because as we don't have a choice... Otherwise we will fall sick. But do we really enjoy the food every day ?

    Lets say you get complete meals with vadai paayasam appaLam poriyal etc etc and the other day you get plain rasam saadam with pickle. Will you enjoy both the food with the same intensity? If the purpose of food is to keep a person hale and healthy why do we develop affinity for a certain menu ?

    Likewise do we get the same level of bliss on all the days when we pray or do service to God?

    I have observed not only myself but others who visit temple. Their concentration differs on different occasion.

    If mobile phones (Thirumala) aren't allowed, the same devotee can part with it for 6 to 7 hours (even more depending on the Que) but the same will not switch it off even for five minutes in the temple near by.

    What sort of Bhakthi is that, which differs from time to time? I am not finding faults but trying to understand why do we behave in that way.
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Bhakthi or is it a business transaction?

    Namaste Viraja ji

    Quote Originally Posted by Viraja View Post
    Dear Anirudh ji,

    I am not very clear of your question. I guess you are saying, with repetitive prayers each day being somewhat boring, what motivates people from doing them every day -- is it bhakti or is it because they want to please the deity for materialistic goals? Please correct me if I am wrong in my understanding of your question.
    You have perfectly understood my question rather my observation...

    To me, bhakti started as a spontaneous flow towards Lord Sri Venkateswara in my early 20's, when I faced some undue fear and danger. It was persistent danger to my entire being (in Jyotish I underwent Atmakaraka dasha which is very tough), and my instincts naturally took me to Sri Venkateswara for Abhayam. This was the period when I used to wake up at 5 AM in the morning, bathe, and do puja to Sri Venkateswara, and to Sun god using flowers (archana) and then rush to college. I did this for a period of 2 1/2 yrs. During this period, I was rewarded with some wonderful dreams of Sri Balaji which greatly increased the firmness of my faith in him. In one dream for instance, (this was when I was unmarried), I was holding arms with another man and we were walking up along a narrow strip of a way amidst a giant ocean and when we reached the tip, we turned around to face a mountain-tall Sri Balaji at the horizon! I felt extremely blessed at this darshan of swami, but my trials still continued. Hence I too to mantra japa of Ashtakshari nama of Sri Vishnu constantly within my mind 24 * 7 each day for a period of 1 yr. And Lo! My troubles STOPPED one fine day when I met my hubby and he agreed to marry me! Owing to some personal details that I do not wish to disclose, to me this marriage proposal came as a boon and I was firm in my conviction it was my devotion that yielded this favorable outcome when I most needed it.

    After marriage, I was caught with career for 10 yrs. During this period my bhakti diminished.

    But suddenly, over the last 5 yrs, I had some visions and some spiritual experience which sparked the divine in me which had become dormant. I woke up, thanking god for having sent me the visions, and have been faithfully practicing bhakti yoga by singing lord's name, reciting slokas, doing puja and bhajan each day for an hour. Some days, this seems like a chore than anything else. Some days I feel the peacefulness, the tranquility and the power of devotion so much that my heart fills with all the yearning for him and her that I go beyond and do much more than my regular routine. There are days that I skip my sadhana too. But these days, it has become a habit which for me will bring BOTH materialistic wishes as well as help me in my spiritual progress. And what are the materialistic wishes I yearn for from god? None of them are mine, I wish for my Schyzophrenic nephew, my other nephew who is between jobs, my mother, my sister, lastly my children. So if you see, I am doing this ultimately as a 'nishkamya karma', a desireless action for the welfare of others. There are many days I pray for total outsiders too, like my divorced friend going through a tough time. An year ago, I spent a week for her reciting 'Sundara Kanda'. I am doing all this, because out of these, I want Lord's mercy towards me, in helping me getting rid of impurities of my mind so that I can ascend spiritually. I do have hopes and wishes of materialistic kind for myself too, but those are not possible to be fulfilled in this birth, for I am aware of my own flaws. I have wish that I become a profoundly better person, and be in a position to serve people, in the coming births, and also alongside live a life that will satisfy my material wishes, and finally to reach the abode of god in some subsequent lifetime without further ado!

    So to summarize - I want to get better in this lifetime first, get as much rid of my personality flaws as possible, get materialistically and spiritually an evolved soul in few subsequent births and finally attain moksha! And I want this for all my beloved ones. These are my goals for bhakti.

    Sarvam Sri Krishnarpanamastu!
    You have triggered a question in me? Have we ever in our life after attaining minimum level maturity prayed or did service to God without any thanks, any complaints, any expectations?

    Like say I am reading Sundara Kaandam because you ll love hear it. Or I am doing this service to you because I think you ll be happy if I do this way.

    I must thank you and my mom Shree Sita Maatha for triggering this question in me
    Last edited by Anirudh; 12 September 2014 at 01:08 PM.
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Bhakthi or is it a business transaction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    Vannakkam: I think this 'getting bored' idea varies on the person. I undertook daily temple visits for a year, and I can honestly say i never got bored. Others may well have had different experiences in that situation.

    For me, an analogy is eating. We're hungry, we eat, we feel satisfied, then 6 hours later the whole thing starts again. Has our hunger become boring? So the temple for me is like that. It feeds the soul body.

    Not all of life is like this however, because certain esperiences are 'once is enough'. The satiation of the desire is complete. For example, if you have a goal of going on a particular pilgrimage to a particular temple, and you accomplish that, then that desire doesn't well up a year later.

    Aum Namasivaya
    Namaste Eastern Mind ji

    I will ask you the question that was triggered by Viraja ji post. Kindly refer my reply to her.
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Bhakthi or is it a business transaction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    You have triggered a question in me? Have we ever in our life after attaining minimum level maturity prayed or did service to God without any thanks, any complaints, any expectations?

    Like say I am reading Sundara Kaandam because you ll love hear it. Or I am doing this service to you because I think you ll be happy if I do this way.

    I must thank you and my mom Shree Sita Maatha for triggering this question in me
    Thank you for a wonderful question, Anirudh ji.

    I am not really evolved in bhakti to call myself a "profound devotee", but once during my prayer, I was suddenly filled with the thought of Sri Rama undergoing all the difficulty building a bridge over sea, and marching to the war-field by plain walking (instead of chariots etc), and facing Ravana.. Some sort of tears filled my eyes for the first time and immediately I felt overjoyed I'm shedding tears of joy for the Lord! I did not feel the same again but I wish I do, just to let know god how much I love him!

    There may be some people who render some form of worship as a 'thank you' note too.. I have myself done such a thing once to Shri Hanuman.

    Thanks & Regards.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: Bhakthi or is it a business transaction?

    Namaste Viraja ji,
    Quote Originally Posted by Viraja View Post
    Thank you for a wonderful question, Anirudh ji.

    I am not really evolved in bhakti to call myself a "profound devotee", but once during my prayer, I was suddenly filled with the thought of Sri Rama undergoing all the difficulty building a bridge over sea, and marching to the war-field by plain walking (instead of chariots etc), and facing Ravana.. Some sort of tears filled my eyes for the first time and immediately I felt overjoyed I'm shedding tears of joy for the Lord! I did not feel the same again but I wish I do, just to let know god how much I love him!

    There may be some people who render some form of worship as a 'thank you' note too.. I have myself done such a thing once to Shri Hanuman.

    Thanks & Regards.
    I don't know why but I remember my 7th standard Tamil class teacher now. I am not sure whether this is from Shaiva saint or Vishnu saint...

    "En Kadan Pani Seithu Kidapathey"...

    Please translate in English so that other readers too can enjoy
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Bhakthi or is it a business transaction?

    Sure, Anirudh ji.

    "En Kadan Pani Seithu Kidapathey"

    என் கடன் பணி செய்து கிடப்பதே

    My duty is to keep rendering my service (without expectation).
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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