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Thread: Astrologers! Can you identify a 'working' raja-yoga?

  1. #21
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    Re: Astrologers! Can you identify a 'working' raja-yoga?

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté


    Please note some of our most esteemed seers ( ṛṣi-s or some call kavi¹) where married. I will be happy to list them if you wish. The one that is most notable and you can read is yājñavalkya-ji. We can see his conversations with his wife(s) in the bṛhadarāṇyakopaniṣad.

    Yet why are many saints not married ? It is one of perspective. They are married to the Supreme.


    iti śivaṁ

    1. kavi is from kū - gifted with insight; the ability to cognize the truth; some also use the term kavi as 'poet', as they composed the sonnets (śloka-s) of our śāstra-s & āgama-s from what they directly cognized in pure consciousness.

    Greetings!

    In more recent times, Paramahansa Ramakrishna and Lahiri Mahashoy, both of whom had illustrious celibate disciples...!

    The LORD moves in mysterious ways and perhaps it is our (common man's) arrogance that makes us think that all mysteries of LORD is captured by the rules of astrology!

    Hence, I try to avoid seeing horoscopes of Sri Rama, Sri Krishna, other avatars and demi-gods, etc. The common man is sufficiently intriguing and often indecipherable when technical astrology (or palmistry or numbers etc) alone are utilized...!

    Love and Light,

    Rohiniranjan
    Last edited by Rohiniranjan; 10 September 2014 at 05:42 PM.
    _________________
    MA GIVE US eyes to see, and minds to understand what the eyes see, and hearts beating in unison to keep the eyes and minds alive and ALL OF US engaged in serving YOU FOREVER.

    A birth-epoch is a seemingly-random TRANSIT-epoch that gains a personal-meaningfulness and becomes a beacon in the current lifetime of the incarnated soul-fragment; the union of a kona (angle) with a trikona (trine)...?

  2. #22
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    Re: Astrologers! Can you identify a 'working' raja-yoga?

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté


    Please note some of our most esteemed seers ( ṛṣi-s or some call kavi¹) where married. I will be happy to list them if you wish. The one that is most notable and you can read is yājñavalkya-ji. We can see his conversations with his wife(s) in the bṛhadarāṇyakopaniṣad.


    Yet why are many saints not married ? It is one of perspective. They are married to the Supreme.



    iti śivaṁ

    1. kavi is from kū - gifted with insight; the ability to cognize the truth; some also use the term kavi as 'poet', as they composed the sonnets (śloka-s) of our śāstra-s & āgama-s from what they directly cognized in pure consciousness.
    Yajvan Ji,

    Thanks for pointing this. A question flashed on my mind after reading your comments. Was there any reason behind some saints or rishis getting married and others following brahmacharya in oldern days.

    I know this question is off the topic but I'll be glad to know the answer.

    Thanks
    Krishna

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    Re: Astrologers! Can you identify a 'working' raja-yoga?

    Quote Originally Posted by KrishnaTVM View Post
    Yajvan Ji,

    Thanks for pointing this. A question flashed on my mind after reading your comments. Was there any reason behind some saints or rishis getting married and others following brahmacharya in oldern days.

    I know this question is off the topic but I'll be glad to know the answer.

    Thanks
    Krishna
    Dear Krishna ji,

    I do not believe that the four ashrams and stages of life are really meant to work like clockwork, although specific ages have been claimed by scriptural-scholars. I consider those as ideal-guidelines, at least in modern times (in which we live, perform, eat and breathe).

    The important thing is to be as true as possible to whatever stage/age we are in and avoid too many comparisons and what-if ruminations. Those who do not generally are seen to be uncontented and as a result of that distracted. Not everyone is meant to achieve vairaagya and sainthood and in that context it surprises me how many folks who failed at work, grihastha roles (some without even entering it and experiencing the challenges of such roles experienced by most common men (women) like us) hanker after moksha and literally pester jyotishis for confirming if their charts have sanyaasa and moksha. While in some cases, particularly illustrious ones who had paid their dues in past lives, this might be the case and circumstances shape themselves to fit their destinies, for most others this kind of hankering after sanyaasa etc (in some cases as escapism) is futile. Particularly those who keep approaching jyotishis year after year with the same quest, "When will I attain Moksha?". Without really trying to lead a full life being honest to any of the stages that lead to Moksha.

    Regards,

    Rohiniranjan
    _________________
    MA GIVE US eyes to see, and minds to understand what the eyes see, and hearts beating in unison to keep the eyes and minds alive and ALL OF US engaged in serving YOU FOREVER.

    A birth-epoch is a seemingly-random TRANSIT-epoch that gains a personal-meaningfulness and becomes a beacon in the current lifetime of the incarnated soul-fragment; the union of a kona (angle) with a trikona (trine)...?

  4. #24
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    Re: Astrologers! Can you identify a 'working' raja-yoga?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by KrishnaTVM View Post
    Yajvan Ji,

    Thanks for pointing this. A question flashed on my mind after reading your comments. Was there any reason behind some saints or rishis getting married and others following brahmacharya in oldern days.

    I know this question is off the topic but I'll be glad to know the answer.
    I have a different view on this matter but as you said it will be off topic ( substantially) , and I also must raise my hand to being a contributor to this! So, if we wish to open a new thread I will be happy to comment.

    I also have a differing view then what Rohiniranjan-ji offered...
    Not everyone is meant to achieve vairaagya and sainthood
    It is the difference between achieving and discovering our true SELF. I think it is within our own nature to pursue this. At the core of every desire is the notion of fulfilling one's self to be more then the most i.e. to be whole. Some know this, others not. This wholeness is the core of mokṣa. So when I speak it is in slight shades of degree. Our nature propels us to this wholeness.
    We are all bound to this wholeness sooner or later. And here is the continuing pickle - we have always been this wholeness. So, the native asks the jyotisha, when will this be revealed ? by asking when will I achieve this ?


    iti śivaṁ
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Astrologers! Can you identify a 'working' raja-yoga?

    Dear all (especially Mr. Yajvan!),

    One last digression (from my side) then I will not raise this important matter to let the original thread get back on track :-)

    If we are all potentially WHOLE, and express the wholeness fully and honestly then where can there room for any disagreement?

    The reality of potential or essential (in essence!) WHOLE is unquestionable but in a lifetime which is but one sliver of the whole picture (of our intrinsic SOUL - THE WHOLE) and hence there is room for different flavours of reality being expressed by each sliver (obviously less than WHOLE!) depending on their current life-plan which is subject to our karmic journey!

    Regards,

    Rohiniranjan
    _________________
    MA GIVE US eyes to see, and minds to understand what the eyes see, and hearts beating in unison to keep the eyes and minds alive and ALL OF US engaged in serving YOU FOREVER.

    A birth-epoch is a seemingly-random TRANSIT-epoch that gains a personal-meaningfulness and becomes a beacon in the current lifetime of the incarnated soul-fragment; the union of a kona (angle) with a trikona (trine)...?

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    Re: Astrologers! Can you identify a 'working' raja-yoga?

    Namaste,

    I would like to add an observation here - that people/astrologers in general only are willing to look for traits in the nativity's chart, IF they are otherwise proven successful in that arena! Otherwise, it would be a futile attempt to try and convince them (astrologers) about our own spirituality and accomplishments in this field if we are not another Prabhupada or Paramahamsa!

    I would like to add that to many astrologers, I have mentioned about my vision, and it did not even arouse *marginal curiosity*. No need to say, I never ventured any further with those astrologers!

    So who knows what's in store, even for those who failed as grihastha or were not successful at work?! Maybe they are genuine seekers and were not granted success (of any kind) otherwise so that they would evolve further easily.

    Thanks,

    Viraja
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

  7. #27
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    Re: Astrologers! Can you identify a 'working' raja-yoga?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    This whole string was predicated on the word 'astrologers'...
    Do you think the term astrologer = jyotiṣa¹, or is the ~ best fit~ ?

    ( note that this question takes no issue with any post or the overall idea found in this string. It is for the appreciation of understanding jyotis as the 6th vedāṅga¹ and not a stand-alone discipline).

    iti śivaṁ


    jyotiṣa - within this term we have jyoti and jyotis...
    1. jyotis
      • we now are dealing with light, brightness
      • jyotis is associated with the sun, moon and agni
      • agni suggests sacrifice and tapas
      • jyotis is also the eye, and the 'light' of the eye
      • moon light
      • light as the divine principle of life or source of intelligence , intelligence

    • jyotisiṣām ayana - course or movements of the heavenly bodies ; science of those movements
    • jyotiṣa - that person with competence of the items listed above
    • 6th vedāṅga - is the 6th limb of the veda
      • the 6 ( please look these up for the definitions)
        • śikṣā
        • kalpa
        • vyākaraṇa
        • nirukta - my favorite
        • chandas
        • jyotiṣ
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  8. #28
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    Re: Astrologers! Can you identify a 'working' raja-yoga?

    Dear Yajvan ji,

    No offence meant to all those genuine Jyotishas - but I started using the term astrologers because it seems to me Jyotish of today is a mundane analysis based on some (many) rules as described in BPHS *only*. The intuitive capacity of a person who does this is so limited, that many of their predictions go wrong. Since I experienced this repeatedly, I chose to use a humbling term 'astrologer' instead of Jyotisha. There used to be a moment in history, when jyotishis looked at Raghavendra Swamiji's chart and predicted he would live 700 yrs.. To me, Jyotish includes 'analysis + intuition'.


    I may be wrong and am ready to be corrected/see the right viewpoint.

    Thanks & Regards,

    Viraja
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

  9. #29
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    Re: Astrologers! Can you identify a 'working' raja-yoga?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by Viraja View Post
    Jyotish includes 'analysis + intuition'.
    My thoughts are captured here:

    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1711&highlight=excellent

    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=7319&highlight=good

    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=742&highlight=good

    iti śivaṁ
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  10. #30
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    Re: Astrologers! Can you identify a 'working' raja-yoga?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viraja View Post
    Dear Yajvan ji,

    No offence meant to all those genuine Jyotishas - but I started using the term astrologers because it seems to me Jyotish of today is a mundane analysis based on some (many) rules as described in BPHS *only*. The intuitive capacity of a person who does this is so limited, that many of their predictions go wrong. Since I experienced this repeatedly, I chose to use a humbling term 'astrologer' instead of Jyotisha. There used to be a moment in history, when jyotishis looked at Raghavendra Swamiji's chart and predicted he would live 700 yrs.. To me, Jyotish includes 'analysis + intuition'.

    I may be wrong and am ready to be corrected/see the right viewpoint.

    Thanks & Regards,

    Viraja
    Dear Viraja ji,

    A few points, if I may?

    Firstly, I do not know personally many jyotishis (Jyotisha to me, possibly having grown up in North India, represents the subject or discipline of Vedic astrology and not the practitioner; mind you, there are folks who have expressed problems with the term Vedic too, but that is neither here nor there!), and not knowing their width or depth of knowledge or predictive prowess etc, I do not know if they work only from BPHS or writings of Jaimini or other secret or less popular systems, doctrines etc.). I am only going by your observations and words that you have shared here!

    Secondly, and partly due to above reason, I must not be misinterpreted as trying to be a spokesperson for this collective body of folks that you are talking about.

    The way I see it is that, and this represents down-to-earth reality is that none of us really know how deep and proficient most practitioners were in the myriad of years between let us say now and the time when Rishis who laid down the foundations of Jyotish Shastra lived on this earth. Realistically speaking, we only know of a very few Jyotishis even from the 15th and 16th and 17th century C.E. (earlier religiously known as A.D.) -- those being the few who penned a few manuscripts. Surely, there must have been hundreds and thousands of practitioners serving their clientale of which we know NOTHING! Much of the terrain then and before had been very anecdotal and not well charted or documented as to the details about the individual astrologers and their performances etc. No demographical claims etc can be made, with any degree of truthfulness other than what is the product of modern imagination!

    We simply cannot go by anecdotes and tailored beliefs (self- and by others!) when we are examining something critically.

    So finally, what remains is the surrounding reality! We can all glorify the good golden days of yore or begin to realize that what we have is what we have got! Whether we categorize them into astrologers or jyotishis or jyotishas or whatever label we choose.

    There is an alternative of course! If one is not happy by the status quo, they can tighten their own belts, learn Jyotish-vidya and show the world how it should really be done! I will be the first one to garland such brave visionary missionary souls! :-)

    How many are there that would take up that challenge? And, please remember that I am not the one who is throwing that challenge!

    Love, Light, REALITY!

    Kind Regards,

    Rohiniranjan
    _________________
    MA GIVE US eyes to see, and minds to understand what the eyes see, and hearts beating in unison to keep the eyes and minds alive and ALL OF US engaged in serving YOU FOREVER.

    A birth-epoch is a seemingly-random TRANSIT-epoch that gains a personal-meaningfulness and becomes a beacon in the current lifetime of the incarnated soul-fragment; the union of a kona (angle) with a trikona (trine)...?

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