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Thread: Adharma

  1. #1

    Light Adharma

    Hello Gurujana,
    Good Morning to everyone(Well When I'm posting this it is morning don't know when it get posted).
    This maybe a confusing question but please bare with me.Thank you.

    In our society,we see a lot of people doing Adarma that means bad deeds.They abuse people,act as if they own everything and think that they can do whatever they want.As per my experience,I see that they do all kinds of injustice and then also they don't get punished by the Almighty,I'm not saying that God isn't doing the "Right Thing" but those people live good lives and continue their injustices towards poor people who can't fight for themselves and are too afraid as those people have Power.

    But as it is said,God waits till it is TIME.As we know God waits till the "Paap Ka Ghara" is filled fully and they strikes.

    And we also see that the people who do NO Wrong always suffer and also get into troubles.But this is because it's KaliYuga,I assume.

    So,please enlighten me on this.

    Dharma Ki Jay Ho...
    Adarma Ka Nash Ho...

    Dhanyabad
    Hari bol

  2. #2
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    Re: Adharma

    Namaste Abhishek,

    The laws of Karma are always on work. We don't know what happened in the past and we also don't know what would happen in future. We only see what happens in the present. This limited knowledge gives us doubts as you have mentioned in your post.

    MAyA veils the reality and it is the cause of limitation of knowledge of this world and beyond in us. If someone is in power (money, muscle, social or political) and uses it to cause sufferings to not-so-lucky people, they are actually digging their own graves of sufferings. It may appear momentarily that they are enjoying at the cost of someone else's happiness but it is not true. They are enjoying because of their past good karmas which brought them the power they are enjoying. By indulging in wrong deeds, they are accruing bad Karmas which would give bitter fruits in future at the opportune moment.

    If a sinner gets penalized immediately, no one will ever commit sin. If one knows in the world why he is suffering and for what, he would never do anything wrong. But then the veil of MAyA would be broken and the Self-realisation would take place. The SamsAra will end. For samsAra to continue, people must not know everything, they must be in delusion.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  3. #3

    Re: Adharma

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste Abhishek,

    The laws of Karma are always on work. We don't know what happened in the past and we also don't know what would happen in future. We only see what happens in the present. This limited knowledge gives us doubts as you have mentioned in your post.

    MAyA veils the reality and it is the cause of limitation of knowledge of this world and beyond in us. If someone is in power (money, muscle, social or political) and uses it to cause sufferings to not-so-lucky people, they are actually digging their own graves of sufferings. It may appear momentarily that they are enjoying at the cost of someone else's happiness but it is not true. They are enjoying because of their past good karmas which brought them the power they are enjoying. By indulging in wrong deeds, they are accruing bad Karmas which would give bitter fruits in future at the opportune moment.

    If a sinner gets penalized immediately, no one will ever commit sin. If one knows in the world why he is suffering and for what, he would never do anything wrong. But then the veil of MAyA would be broken and the Self-realisation would take place. The SamsAra will end. For samsAra to continue, people must not know everything, they must be in delusion.

    OM
    Namskar,
    Rightly said Sir.. But why does it take so looong... for them to get penalised for their sins?
    Hari bol

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    Re: Adharma

    Dear friend,
    No body is exempt from the laws of karma .Whatever is done in thoughts or words or deeds is given back in measure by measure . People who seem to be enjoying all good things are reaping the effects of their good karma .Only a realised soul stops facing the resultant karma . But that , also I feel , the impact is less in the sense , he becomes detached to the outcome .

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    Re: Adharma

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    There is no 'getting even'.

    It has become very in vogue ( in fashion) to think karma (properly written karman¹) is a penalty or reward system. It is not , but to a human that only has a view of life that lasts for a short time, it looks as so.
    Example: A person kills another during war and is considered a hero - he saved a group of men. Outside of war this person kills another and is considered a murderer. In both cases 'killing' action (kṛtá¹) occurred. What made one different then the other ? It was the social norms and values applied to the actions itself.
    There must be a higher order of things that we are not seeing. Laws of nature which are impeccable, far beyond the notion of getting even, rewarding or penalizing others.


    iti śivaṁ

    words

    • karma = karman = action, special duty , occupation , obligation; Word, deed, action and reaction. We are told ( in general ) there are 4 kinds:
      • nirvartya - when anything new is produced
      • vikārya - when change is implied either of the substance and form
      • prāpya - when any desired object is attained
      • anīpsita - when an undesired object is abandoned
    patañjali’s yogadarśana says there are two kinds: i.e. action and its inherent latent impressions-- (karma) is of two kinds : Sopakrama --i.e. fast in fructifying-- (sopakramam) and (ca) Nirupakrama --i.e. slow in fructifying
    • By default whenever the individual resides in āṇavamala (being the apparent limited individual) , two other mala-s accompany it: kārma-mala and māyī-mala. What I am interested in here is kārma-mala. Why so ? Because the individual ( in this condition) is the embodyment of action (kalā śarīram).
    • the result of karman is kṛtá. It means cultivated, done, result, accomplished, made; hence karma leads to kṛtá
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Adharma

    Quote Originally Posted by Abhishek Born Again View Post
    Hello Gurujana,
    Good Morning to everyone(Well When I'm posting this it is morning don't know when it get posted).
    This maybe a confusing question but please bare with me.Thank you.

    In our society,we see a lot of people doing Adarma that means bad deeds.They abuse people,act as if they own everything and think that they can do whatever they want.As per my experience,I see that they do all kinds of injustice and then also they don't get punished by the Almighty,I'm not saying that God isn't doing the "Right Thing" but those people live good lives and continue their injustices towards poor people who can't fight for themselves and are too afraid as those people have Power.

    But as it is said,God waits till it is TIME.As we know God waits till the "Paap Ka Ghara" is filled fully and they strikes.

    And we also see that the people who do NO Wrong always suffer and also get into troubles.But this is because it's KaliYuga,I assume.

    So,please enlighten me on this.

    Dharma Ki Jay Ho...
    Adarma Ka Nash Ho...

    Dhanyabad

    Namaste ji,

    Many of us think that Karma is Tit for Tat and Eye for an Eye phenomenon and everyone expects God to take action right away and micromanage everything or Maya veils us from the Truth and wants us to keep committing sins otherwise the veil of Maya would be lifted too soon..the list of misunderstanding can go on and on.

    Karma is actually a very complex phenomenon of Cause and Effect that we can only hope to understand.

    In the past Karma has been misunderstood in many ways for example many people feel a person who is deformed has sinned in a previous birth..but do we really know this for sure? We dont!.

    Take the example of Surdas(the blind saint)..when he had the chance to have his sight restored he did not desire it because he felt having sight would distract his mind from God. So is he suffering? Would you want to consider him to be sinner in a previous life to be born blind?

    Likewise we have no idea who is who in this world..a deformed man who everyone looks down upon could be a an individual who took birth is such circumstances to voluntary take a life with challenges to speed up the use of his stored Karma(Sanchita Karma).

    There can also be a person who has a deformed body becos of previous birth sins..so how are we to know who is who?

    We dont know right?

    So that is why we are advocated to Love Ever and Hurt Never so that everyone benefits from each other in this world...when we render help to anyone we have a chance to redeem ourselves and the person we are helping..so that even if the person was a previous sinner he too benefits..God coded the denizens of this world to be in a symbiotic connection with each other.

    Now coming to those who dont do any apparent wrong but suffer..we have no idea what was the past of the person.

    May be in some previous birth the person could have done some minor wrong here and there but done many good deeds so he takes a birth to suffer a little of the bad deeds first and then he might enjoy the entitlement of his good deeds may be later for example in an after life.

    Remember the story where Yudhisthira was taken to Yama loka and he saw Pandavas and Draupadi suffering wherelse Duryodhana was happy in heaven?

    He was told that since the Pandavas and Draupadi has mostly good karma and only a little bad karma they are suffering first but will enjoy later and Duryodhana has only mainly bad karma and just a little good karma so he will enjoy first and suffer later.

    So going by this..its is very hard to know which stage of our Karma or anyone's Karma is running..so the best is just lead a life without causing harm to self or anyone and let the law of the country deal with those who transgress it.
    Last edited by renuka; 20 July 2014 at 10:09 PM.

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    Re: Adharma

    Namaste ABA,

    Quote Originally Posted by Abhishek Born Again View Post
    why does it take so looong... for them to get penalised for their sins?
    Our so loong ... may not be that long for God if seen on cosmic scale. However, karmas are like seeds of plants which need proper time and place to sprout. So, a particular Karma sprouts only at the right moment and till that time it remains inert waiting for the right environment to sprout.

    Moreover, the final outcome may be again affected by various other things like new Karmas accrued, grace of Guru/saint, grace of Parents/God etc. Karma is a difficult subject and that is why Lord Krishna says in Bhagwad Gita, "Gahna karmano gatih" (It is difficult to understand the way Karma works).

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Adharma

    Namaste,

    Quote Originally Posted by renuka View Post
    ....a deformed man who everyone looks down upon could be a an individual who took birth is such circumstances to voluntary take a life with challenges to speed up the use of his stored Karma(Sanchita Karma).
    That is a new one for me.
    We have a choice? We can volunteer to come in any form/shape, or with a low social status?

    Pranam.

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    Re: Adharma

    Pranam

    Quote Originally Posted by Believer View Post
    Namaste,



    That is a new one for me.
    We have a choice? We can volunteer to come in any form/shape, or with a low social status?

    Pranam.
    There is a story in Bhagvat about Jada Bharat, may be not quite meet the criteria but he chose to act dumb from the beginning later he instruct king Rahuguna( I think if the memory serves right). Do we have a choice? Yes and no, only karma determines it, as Shree Krishna say Sada tad bhav bhavitha.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

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    Re: Adharma

    Quote Originally Posted by Believer View Post
    Namaste,



    That is a new one for me.
    We have a choice? We can volunteer to come in any form/shape, or with a low social status?

    Pranam.
    Pranams Ji,

    I had read that in some book before I cant remember which book..so that is why we are advised to treat all alike.

    The book also stated that some take on birth as an animal just to use up Sanchita Karma.

    That is why sometimes we notice some animals display unusual behaviour and display Bhakti to God.


    Remember even in case of Jaya and Vijaya who were cursed by Sanat Kumars to take birth as humans for 7 lives as devotees?

    But they did not want to be away from Vaikuntha for so long and took the other choice of having to take 3 births that were Anti Vishnu and we had Hiranyakasha./Hiranyakashipu...Ravan/Kumbhakaran...Shishupala/Dantavakra combination.

    So they chose to be Anti Vishnu in 3 births so that they can reach Vaikuntha once again as soon as possible.

    So the Karmic deal is hard to decipher.

    In the book I read it also mentioned cases where 2 people hated each other so much in a previous birth and wanted to make each others life hell and in the next birth both were born as father and son and the son died as a child..so with that death the father was totally shattered and heart broken.

    So their thoughts to cause trouble for each other resulted in the death of one and that death affecting the other as father and son.

    In cases where people also hate each other..they have known to take birth as husband and wife and marriage ends in divorce..so both suffer because of hatred they had in a previous life causing each other heart ache.

    That is why it is so important for us to have pure thoughts and good thoughts constantly and not judge anyone..we have no idea how Karma will take shape.

    After all there is a saying in Sanskrit that goes:

    All the religious texts can be summarized in just two lines..that is helping others brings elevation and harming others brings sins...that is Help Ever Hurt Never.

    So the next time anyone of us sees a beggar in the street..dont think that he could be having a bad karma..we might not really know who he is.

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