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Thread: Prāṇa - In or Out?

  1. #11
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    Re: Prāṇa - In or Out?

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    Prāa as prajāpati you move within the wombs; you are born repeatedly - says the praśna upaniṣad (chapter 2).
    If someone wished to gain better clarity of prāa, then the praśna upaniṣad is a good source.


    In kaśmir śaivism the movement of the breath is looked at ( identifed) in 3 different ways.
    • prāa śakti
    • ātma śakti
    • prabhu śakti

    With prāa śakti, the movement of breath takes place automatically - part of the autonomic nervous system. We are breathing but do not pay much attention to it. An example would be our breath in sleep - all going on automatically. Or during a conversation no one notices the breath, or when being entertained, this prāa śakti is on auto pilot.

    With ātma śakti we are managing the breath coming in and going out. We decide how deep, how long to hold the breath, all that. Some call this conscious breathing. This method is the basis for many upāyae-s or techniques , found in the āṇavopāya¹ approach.

    With prabhu śakti the movement is by the grace of the Supreme. The prāa enters the madhyā-nādī some call the suumnā, the central or principle nerve (nādī ).

    The breath is one vehicle that brings the possibility of experiencing the Supreme. In the vijñāna bhairava It is said that the breath goes in and out in a crooked way i.e. kuṭilākṛti¹ (bent , crooked, curled).
    What does this mean ? It suggests to me that the energy flow is not symmetrical. Some times the breath is short, some
    times long, some times deep sometimes shallow. It is not smooth and regulated.

    Well who cares?
    It is by the regulation of breath that kualinī śakti straightens Herself and one enters into the sacred space (kṣetra)
    of the transcendent ( some call parāparā)


    praām

    words
    • āṇavopāya

    āṇu अणु = fine , minute , atomic is known as 'atom' - which is another name for the individual jiva. This upāya is the means whereby the āṇu or
    the individual jiva uses his own kāraṇa-s or instruments i.e. senses, prana and manas for self-realization. It includes disciplines concerning the regulation
    of prana, japa, concentration, meditation, etc.

    • kuṭilākṛti + kuṭilā -bent , crooked, curled + kṛti - doing yet also is a meter. We can think of the breath as a 'meter' of in and out.
      This kṛti is kind of anuṣṭubh meter consisting of two pādas of twelve syllables each and a third pāda of eight syllables.

    Last edited by yajvan; 27 November 2015 at 09:33 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #12

    Re: Prāṇa - In or Out?

    Namasté Yajvan

    I was just reading this thread as I have recently become aware of Prana in a new light, so I was drawn to your wise words.

    After Yoga lessons and some meditation. I awoke one morning with my mind as clear as a mirror not a scrap of angst directing my course. I had the concious knowledge in my mind that I was breathing steadily through my right nostril.

    Oh what will it take for me to realise regular organised sadhana???

    In response to your initial question I would say that to my mind it is filling and emptying. Prana also being the substance. Like a wave of water rising and falling.

    I have found it interesting to note in meditation that within the scientific doctrine. The consumption of oxygen which is a continual process of change happens at many different rates. That life and the carbon cycle is effectively a slower more complex form of combustion.

    So just as fire needs oxygen, rust needs oxygen also life needs oxygen. I do not wish to imply that Oxygen is Prana. The scientific model from which the notion of oxygen as a molecule its self depends to a great extent upon a large amount of theoretical belief. The theory of Quantum Electro Dynamics although extremely elegant is totally incomprehensible to the intellect alone, it could be said that it leaves room for a lot of dark matter!

    Interesting that the same analogy was made oh so many years ago without the need of the scientific models.

    That our body's use of oxygen is just as that of the flame which consumes all matter.

    Is there more than one fire? each one lit independently or is all fire one?

    I think one.

    Pranam

    Iain

  3. #13
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    Re: Prāṇa - In or Out?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté
    I wrote on another post,
    What are the components of breath? space, time and number. These 3 things :
    • space - the depth of breath
    • time - the amount of time between breaths
    • number - repetitions ( as in a practice of prāṇāyām)
    Where does this come from ? patañjali’s yogadarśana ( his sūtra-s) chapter 2 ( sādhana pada ), 50th sūtra , We can see space, time, and number called out. It says the following:

    sa tu bāhyābhyantara stambha vṛttir deśakāla saṃkhyābhiḥ paridṛṣṭo dīrgha sūkṣmaḥ || 50
    • sa - can mean air, wind ( since this is about prāṇāyām it is a good fit); yet also means knowledge, meditation; also procuring , bestowing
    • tu - can mean 'certainly' ; also to go
    • bāhyābhyantara is the following:
      • bāhya - external, the outer part.
      • ābhyantara - being inside

    • stambha - stoppage, fixed ( neither inside or outside)
    • vṛttir = vṛtti = course of action , nature , function
    • deśakāla = place and time
      • deśa - point , region , spot , place , part , portion
      • kāla - a fixed or right point of time , a space of time

    • saṃkhyābhiḥ
      • saṃkhyā - counting, summing up + counting up or over , reckoning or summing up (number)
      • abhi with regard to ; also its one after the other ; this word can also mean fearless when looked at like this a-bhi ( not + fear)
        paridṛṣṭo =paridṛṣṭa - seen , beheld , perceived , learnt , known

    • dīrgha - long , for a long time
    • sūkṣmaḥ - subtle

    Basically this says the breath in prāṇāyām has an external component, an internal component and there is a place where it is fixed or suspended. The breath becomes long and subtle over time ( practice).

    Why is this of interest ? All of us breathe , no? So any one can consider this technique.
    We will continue with this idea and look at:
    • what is subtle ? long ? short ?
    • what is external and internal ?
    • udghāta - breathing through the nostrils
    • ... and compare this to a simular approach found in kaśmir śaivism , particularly called out
      in the vijñāna bhairava kārikā-s

    praām
    Last edited by yajvan; 27 November 2015 at 09:34 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  4. #14
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    Re: Prāṇa - In or Out?

    Namaste Yajvan ji,

    With above said - Prana In and Out, there is one more concept
    Kumbhaka, which is also very much important in part in Pranayam.


    Breathing In - Holding Breath - Breathing out , this process is for cleansing of Nadi. For a normal person of normal spiritual practice, it takes 2-5 years of regular practice to clean Nadi, it may take longer but not less. I am not sure what happens by cleansing the Nadi, how one will feel !!! Guess Mind and Sense comes under little control.
    Namaskar,

    AmIHindu ?

    यज्ञानां जपयज्ञोऽस्मि ।

    नाम्नोऽस्ति यावती शक्तिः पापनिर्हरणे हरेः । श्र्वपचोऽपि नरः कतुँ क्षमस्तावन्नकिल्विषम् ।।

  5. #15
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    Re: Prāṇa - In or Out?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    AmIHindu suggests the idea of kumbhaka ( a pot, container, being empty or full). We will address this as prāṇāyām considers pūraka (to take the breath inside), kumbhaka (to retain it), and recaka (to discharge it) - this is the prāṇāyām approach.

    I wrote,
    what is subtle ?
    What is external and internal ?
    udghāta - breathing through the nostrils
    ... and compare this to a simular approach found in kaśmir śaivism , particularly called out in the vijñāna bhairava kārikā-s
    First lets start with external and internal space as this is indicated by the word bāhyābhyantara and deśa ( place) in the sūtra aforementoned.

    External - is outside the body form ( no news here)...but where ? We consider it from udghāta ( breathing through the nostrils).
    One instruction is ' from the tip of the nose to the point where the breath is extented ( stops)'. Now there is two ways of looking at the tip of the nose yet let's not concern ourselves with that now. For this post let the 'tip' be the end of the nose furthest from the face. The breath from the nostrils extend from there to where the exhailing of air ends.

    The internal portion is within the chest area, within the lungs yet perceived in the chest area, the heart area.

    With regard to this bāhyābhyantara, prāṇāyām is practiced with the observation of these two points (deśa) AND how they can be shortened in length. Prāṇāyām is looked at ( in this conversation) as the increasing subtly mentioned as sūkṣmaḥ in patañjali’s 50th sūtra we are discussing.

    Now what is subtle ? It is the ease, and fineness of breath, effortless. Yet one askes how subtle is subtle ? What is offered is this - when the fibers of cotton are put at the tip of the nose and not a strand moves, this is the most subtle.

    Is this possible ? Absolutely. If one starts off with gross breath, it is considered that of an animal (paśu - a tethered beast). Yet with time and practice one can manage the breath. This comes from practice and settling down the mind. For this we use a mantra to accompany the practice and begin the process... we will leave this for another time and continue to stay focused on prāṇāyām.

    praām
    Last edited by yajvan; 27 November 2015 at 09:39 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #16
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    Re: Prāṇa - In or Out?

    I was doing some reading today. The chapter I am on has some discussion of prana. Maybe some of you will find it of interest.

    http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/pa...i/raja_13.html
    "The leprosy of unreality disfigured every human creature in attendance."
    - Charles Dickens

    "Every blade of grass, every insect, ant, and golden bee, all so marvelously know their path, though they have not intelligence, they bear witness to the mystery of God and continually accomplish it themselves."
    - Fyodor Dostoyevsky

  7. #17
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    Re: Prāṇa - In or Out?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    A very important word in the sūtra offered in post 13 above is stambha - stoppage, fixed
    ( neither inside or outside) that is practiced during
    prāṇāyām.

    The breath is brought in (bāhya) through the nose (udghāta, nostrils) done in a subtle way (sūkṣmaḥ) ;
    at the end of the stroke ( udghāta also has this defintion of ~stroke~) there is this stoppage, this fixed point (stambha) where breath is neither going in or out.


    This too occurs on the exit of the breath stoke (ābhyantara) when the breath is external to the practitioner.

    This fixed point is what brings balance in the breathing cycle. This is considered prāṇāyām. This fix point is a place in space and time (deśakāla). It is considered the gap, the central location, the middle place between in and out (bāhyābhyantara), between prāṇa and apāna.

    From post 5 above we see the following from kaṭhopaniṣad, 2nd adhyāya (chapter) 2nd vallī,
    3rd śloka says the following:
    ūrdhvaṁ pranaṁ unnayatyapanaṁ pratyag asyati
    madhye vāmanam āsanaṁ viśve devā upāsate ||

    this says,
    It is the one that leads (unnaya) prāṇa upwards (ūrdhvaṁ),
    It is the one that brings down (pratyag) apāna ,
    It is the one seated (āsana) in the middle (madhya) as worthy of adoration.
    It is the one all the gods (viśve devā - senses) adore (upāsate).

    You see, when this prāṇāyām¹ is done properly ( time, space, subtlety) what occurs is madhya - standing between two , impartial , neutral. It is here we can experience the 4th , turīya. That is why this prāṇāyām is practical and of great import.

    This, if anyone asked me, that is beginning a spiritual unfoldment and does not know where to start, start with the breath. We all use this breath all day, but most use it as prāa śakti and miss the opportunity for ātma śakti ( see post 11 above).

    praām

    references
    • various approaches to pranayam - see post 6 above.

    Last edited by yajvan; 27 November 2015 at 09:35 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  8. #18
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    Re: Prāṇa - In or Out?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    Q: ...yajvan, you have talked much of this prāṇāyām & the breath brought through the nose (udghāta, nostrils), but I do not know where to begin, give me a hint.


    A: Observe the breath. Sit quietly, eyes closed and observe the breath coming in ( inward stoke) , its halting place (stambha), then as the breath exits, and its halting place. We observe the process, easily, effortlessly. This is the simplicity of the practice.


    Q: but for how long ?


    A: If you are new to this process, start with 5 minutes. Do this every day for a week to start. Tell me what the mind does, what the breath does after that time.

    praṇām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  9. #19

    Re: Prāṇa - In or Out?

    Namasté yajvan, All.

    Thank you yajvan for your inspiration.

    I have found that my breathing must be oval or even round in form, that rather than in out, in out. I should "land smoothly" on the hold by decelerating the movement exponentially and then accelerating exponentially when I fill.

    Creating a more circular movement of the diaphragm. A more natural oscillation than my previous efforts.

    It is fascinating to observe the natural pauses people make in there breathing during their sleep, also during waking hours when we are extremely concentrated on something at the precise moment that extreme concentration and focus is needed we hold our breath naturally.

    Oh dear I think I'm going all mathematical again.

    Nature Looooves "e" (natural exponential) as a matter of curiosity e is inherently connected to Pi by i, a connection of pure beauty which is to my mind unfathomable yet strangely obvious.

    e^(Pi*i)=-1


    Aum shri Ganeshaya namah

    Mana
    Last edited by Mana; 25 July 2011 at 04:40 AM.

  10. #20
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    Re: Prāṇa - In or Out?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by Mana View Post
    I have found that my breathing must be oval or even round in form, that rather than in out, in out. I should "land smoothly" on the hold by decelerating the movement exponentially and then accelerating exponentially when I fill.
    Yes, when one first thinks of this in-and-out there is the notion of a linear movement. It does not have to be this. Many talk of an oval or circle. It makes perfect sense. This allows the pause, the halting place (stambha), connected to its next stroke ( back in or out) in line with the next move. The ~halting~ comes then at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock fond on the circle and allows one to visualize these locations - giving awareness to these gaps or points.

    praṇām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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