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Thread: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

  1. #11

    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    Dear Silence Speaks,

    Order and disorder and the fluctuation between these two states happens continually in the field of conciousness, of the human super being; this is the integration and differentiation of knowledge.

    As such to ascribe the status of "problematic" to any rhythmic reaction to this universal state of conciousness; this may imply ignorance of the non differential nature of knowledge, on behalf of he who is giving the classification.

    Would the saint who spends his entire life performing japa be considered, in this light, to be suffering compulsive disorder?

    Now Chandas, as I understand it, is a long wave frequency of super cerebral information. It is amongst other descriptions and phenomenon, the gramatic meter which has preseved the integratie of Sanskrt the Rk veda and vedas for so very long, when other languages have changed in the passing of time, its roots and its messages from the past are still intelligible. As such this low frequency information is travelling through time (our impression of time) so much very much further than more so than other offerings.
    Chandas does not only exist in this manor; as suggested by the wise, everything emanates from sound, from om, from vibration.
    Meditation allows us to tune into these lower frequency's or sounds, which are otherwise not intelligible. I am using the English word "sound" here but you must be aware that I imply; the tanmāntra śabda, which does not traslate well to the English word "sound" at all; it is not only heard with the ears, but manifests as a sub element of all mahābhūta and as such, a key component of ākāśa, a vibration of that ... Perhaps the higgs boson would be a better English description of this element, much intensive meditation is required to know what this English word means ...

    These vibrations are not vibrations at all with out their rhythm, without chandas. We might like to liken this to the dance of netaji śiva, which does not happen without rhythm, nothing does, śunya!
    Now why do I have an issue with this in regard to the television, you might well ask?
    Simply compare the rhythm or the chandas of the editing in tv and films since they first started, and now ask yourself; what frequency is my mind dancing to here; Do you hear the longer wave length?

    What if mind is as much created by its content, by it vibration and the frequency there in; then managing the content is to manage ones mind and ignoring such a kin to running away. Watching tv is not bad no, but if it unwittingly replaces other sources of vibration, it is surly best that we be aware of that, and to where those waves are taking us.

    Citta, to my mind, is a very big field to see through ...

    I do not understand your last paragraph at all, please, If you find my understanding of your model to be wrong, then correct my vision of your model; Rather than criticise fundamentally, the way in which I communicate; There are no points but only perspectives.

    "drshtantas" drṣ here surly imply the root view or sight as in "drṣṭi", and "tanas" offspring; as in, resulting from a particular perspective.

    To my mind, It is perfectly normal to extend an example to express a differing idea, to verify a perspective by moving it slightly ...

    Kind regards.

  2. #12

    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    Dear Mana ji,


    Mana ji, Please understand that I am not criticizing you or anyone here. We are discussing ideas and in discussing them there will be some negations and rejections - that's natural. At the end of the day, we may disagree on a few points -- and yet remain friends !

    Meditation is not an altered state of mind! Meditation is to know that you are not the mind! And a person who is attracted to exotic experiences and states of mind will always see himself as mind - even as a person who is attracted to physical beauty will see himself or herself as the body! Meditation is to see oneself as untouched by mind! Because mind belongs to the realm of mithya. Before we discuss that further ... let me first accept that some of the axioms and statements of your post are not yet clear to me. So I will present my views on what I understood and raise questions on the terms which I did not understand. I will quote from your post for this purpose - I believe that also keeps the posts well structured.

    [QUOTE]
    Order and disorder and the fluctuation between these two states happens continually in the field of conciousness, of the human super being;this is the integration and differentiation of knowledge.
    [QUOTE]

    Q1) Whats a field of consciousness and whats a "Human Super Being" ?
    Q2) Whats integration and differentiation of knowledge ?? Please elaborate.

    [QUOTE]
    As such to ascribe the status of "problematic" to any rhythmic reaction to this universal state of conciousness; this may imply ignorance of the non differential nature of knowledge, on behalf of he who is giving the classification.
    [QUOTE]

    Q3) whats a "rhythmic reaction of universal state of consciousness" ?
    Q4) and whats "Ascribing status of problematic" to such a state ?
    Q5) Whats ignorance of non-differential nature of knowledge ?

    [QUOTE]
    Would the saint who spends his entire life performing japa be considered, in this light, to be suffering compulsive disorder?
    [QUOTE]

    I'll Answer this... if the "So called saint" is obsessed and cannot stop doing japa ... he is suffering from an obsessive compulsive disorder! His mind dictates terms for him!
    In the first place, why do japa at all ?

    [QUOTE]
    Now Chandas, as I understand it, is a long wave frequency of super cerebral information
    [QUOTE]

    Q6) Whats frequency of super cerebral information ?

    As such this low frequency information is travelling through time (our impression of time) so much very much further than more so than other offerings.
    Q7) What does this mean ? whats "Travelling - through time - of information" ? Whats low frequency information ?

    [QUOTE]
    Meditation allows us to tune into these lower frequency's or sounds, which are otherwise not intelligible. I am using the English word "sound" here but you must be aware that I imply; the tanmāntra śabda, which does not traslate well to the English word "sound" at all; it is not only heard with the ears, but manifests as a sub element of all mahābhūta and as such, a key component of ākāśa, a vibration of that ... Perhaps the higgs boson would be a better English description of this element, much intensive meditation is required to know what this English word means ...
    [QUOTE]

    Q8) How do you differentiate this from a hallucination ?
    Q9) Why use a term like "Higgs boson" ? Is that to make it sound scientific in some sense ?
    Q10) Why should anyone want to hear these low frequency sounds in meditation - albeit with the mental ear ?

    [QUOTE]
    We might like to liken this to the dance of netaji śiva, which does not happen without rhythm, nothing does, śunya!
    [QUOTE]

    How easily do you jump from one notion to another !!
    Q11) What has Siva got to do with all these ?

    [QUOTE]
    Citta, to my mind, is a very big field to see through
    [QUOTE]

    Q12) You believe ? You Feel ? Or you think ? What is Citta ? How do you know this ?

    I do not understand your last paragraph at all, please, If you find my understanding of your model to be wrong, then correct my vision of your model; Rather than criticise fundamentally, the way in which I communicate; There are no points but only perspectives.

    "drshtantas" drṣ here surly imply the root view or sight as in "drṣṭi", and "tanas" offspring; as in, resulting from a particular perspective.

    To my mind, It is perfectly normal to extend an example to express a differing idea, to verify a perspective by moving it slightly ...
    You can give an example to present an idea. In doing so, the example ends with the illustration of the idea.
    another idea can be presented with some other example.
    One should be clear that the point of discussion is not the example. Example neither proves nor disproves a point. Example simply makes the idea clear. The idea has to be proved or disproved , not the example.
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  3. #13

    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    Namaste
    Quote Originally Posted by silence_speaks View Post
    What I am trying to convey is just this:
    One should know how to manage one's mind - and not worry so much about the "Content" of the mind.
    Love!
    Silence
    So please tell us - how to manage the mind --
    It is easy in ekānta (solitude). Go out into the world, including the so-called adhyātmic world, or satsanga, and the unpredictability of each situation, dynamic nature of events, a variety of mind-sets can all take the mind on a long drive.

    Sometimes parking lots are not such a bad thing.

    Thank You
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  4. #14
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    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by silence_speaks View Post
    Meditation is not an altered state of mind! Meditation is to know that you are not the mind!
    I would say it a bit differently... that you are not the ego (ahaṃkāra¹). Managing the mind is like working with a thief for your best interest. Many promises are made, yet you will be taken advantage of in the end. Even king janaka came to this conclusion.

    iti śivaṁ

    1. ahaṃkāra - is the 'I' doer; this is self(me) awareness; differentiated awareness within the realm of objects and within the world some call tripuṭā ( the 3's )
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  5. #15
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    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté


    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    Many promises are made, yet you will be taken advantage of in the end. Even king janaka came to this conclusion.

    What then is one to do ? Some say , remove a thorn with the use of another thorn.

    If one looks to the 1st chapter of patañjali’s yogadarśana (the yoga sutras of Patañjali), or the sāmadhi pāda , we get a good feel on what one is to do.

    Another approach is that of self inquiry (ātma-vicara) - this is advocated by ramaa mahaṛṣi .
    Are there othger ways ? Yes . I can think of about 112 of them¹. It still comes down to the capacity and capability of the aspirant. Who says so ? Patañjali (again chapter 1 one will find this pointed out).


    So, what to do ? Begin, learn, practice; patience and persistence.


    iti śivaṁ

    1. 112 ways are the subject matter of the vijñānabhairava kāraka-s
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #16

    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    Dear Silence Speaks,

    Yes quite naturally, a friendly discussion indeed, obviously we are of slightly differing perspective; this is of no matter, only of mind.

    I could not agree more with you that meditation is not an altered state of mind. It is to my mind, and in my experience; the way in which one might harness and land a state of conciousness which has altered, elevated, spontaneously; So as to manage yama and niyama without unwittingly passing on to the next loca. A point which is most worthy of note as it can quite literally save your life, or perhaps better said would be, alter which loca you spend a large part of this or your next next life in.
    A1) caitanyamātmā
    A2) jṇānaṁ bandhaḥ
    A3) spanda
    A4)
    Quote Originally Posted by silence_speaks View Post
    So watching TV is not bad. Addiction to TV is a compulsive disorder - inability to manage mind. That's a problem.
    It has been proven in certain other animals, that if you put a "better than life" example of, in this example, prospective mates, as an option into their existence; they no longer actually mate preferring the "better than life" fake offering over reality. If I recollect correctly this was shown with birds, but I am not entirely sure; you will have to take my word for it, that this has been adequately demonstrated. Is it not a illusion of Ahaṃkāra to think humans much different to this? For example: there less and less room for musicians in Western culture, people prefer CD's, comparing musicians to CD's; not the inverse. Paradoxical, as music (to play an instrument) is the most wonderful meditation.
    A)5 Please refer to A2
    A6) Brain waves, in universal conciousness; Time.
    A)7 Travelling through time, our perception of, is simply life as we experience it. Sound beneath, or above, a certain frequency is inaudible to our ears; this does not mean that it does not exist, nor does it imply that we are not affected by it: Weather fronts are very low sound waves.
    Chandas in Mantra are low frequency sound waves, if you put up a visual representation of a recording of a mantra; you can see this plainly ...
    A8) I understand it, and it also corresponds to the reality I see day in day out.
    A9) No its not to make this "sound" scientific. Why translate this into Sanskrit; If there are English words which mean the same? Incidentally evidence of the existence of the Higgs boson, confirms that A8) is just.
    A10) They are the dream state and beyond. Also in correspondence with this; they are the subconscious; the heart rate; the pulse; the rate at which we breath. Please refer to brain wave length and states of conciousness and their corresponding effect on our regulatory systems.
    A11) śiva is all of this; and that.
    A12) Please refer to A1.
    Wow ... your final question, Q13) reads like a school exam paper; and with that it appears to be a circular argument, I didn't do so well at school and prefer not even to attempt to answer this question.

    I have previously mentioned that I dislike point for point debate as it takes me so long to write in this way. I am happy to discuss anything and everything but I feel that I must be honest with you in saying that I find discussion, as to the rules of conversation, to be futile, preferring instead to try and engage a flow; So much easer in spoken conversation.
    I mean absolutely no offence, I am being honest. If there was not a spell check on my browser, you might better understand why.

    With kind regards.
    Last edited by Mana; 10 January 2014 at 12:06 AM.

  7. #17

    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté



    I would say it a bit differently... that you are not the ego (ahaṃkāra¹). Managing the mind is like working with a thief for your best interest. Many promises are made, yet you will be taken advantage of in the end. Even king janaka came to this conclusion.

    iti śivaṁ

    1. ahaṃkāra - is the 'I' doer; this is self(me) awareness; differentiated awareness within the realm of objects and within the world some call tripuṭā ( the 3's )
    Dear Yajvan ji,
    If you are not the mind you are neither lured by the promises nor can anyone take advantage of you. Coz nothing of the mind can touch you.
    !! You being not thing mind, how can anything ever trouble you or take advantage of you ?

    infact there should be a "you" to get hit by the thoughts ... the statement that you are not the mind ... to see that is to see that there is no "you" who can be hit by thoughts !

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  8. #18

    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    Quote Originally Posted by ameyAtmA View Post
    Namaste

    So please tell us - how to manage the mind --
    It is easy in ekānta (solitude). Go out into the world, including the so-called adhyātmic world, or satsanga, and the unpredictability of each situation, dynamic nature of events, a variety of mind-sets can all take the mind on a long drive.

    Sometimes parking lots are not such a bad thing.

    Thank You
    Dear Ameyatma,
    If I do not know how to drive the car, parking lot is definitely better !

    Let me now get to the main point: how to manage the mind.
    Before that you have to tell me : How does mind affect you ?
    Lets do a "Step by step analysis" ... suppose you see something or something happens. how does mind affect us. Specifically, I would want you to elaborate on a few points :
    1. Does the presence of thought affect us or the absence of an object ?
    2. A thought is supposed to be momentary, how is it able to touch you or trouble us ?

    Lets see if we can do this together.

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  9. #19

    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    Dear ameyAtmA,

    Quote Originally Posted by ameyAtmA View Post
    ... Sometimes parking lots are not such a bad thing.
    Quite, and walking a more agreeable option.

    Kind regards.

  10. #20

    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    Quote Originally Posted by Mana View Post
    Dear ameyAtmA,



    Quite, and walking a more agreeable option.

    Kind regards.
    a nice way to avoid accidents if you do not know how to drive the car.
    so if you do not know how to use the mind what will you do ? keep it thoughtless LOL!!
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

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