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Thread: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

  1. #21

    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    Quote Originally Posted by ameyAtmA View Post
    It is easy in ekānta (solitude). Go out into the world, including the so-called adhyātmic world, or satsanga, and the unpredictability of each situation, dynamic nature of events, a variety of mind-sets can all take the mind on a long drive.

    Sometimes parking lots are not such a bad thing.
    Taking a sātvic scenario for the sake of simplicity:

    A sādhak attends a day-long satsang of kathā with a strong resolve to maintain maun (silence) and keep a low profile. They get there. The morning session begins where a friend-associate comes and sits next to them "Hi!" You just smile. Slowly this friend asks you to read the sanskrit on the big billboard-like poster behind the speakers ' dias . Since the kathā hasn't yet begun, the speaker isn't there, and this is a good request, not jalpa (chatter), you agree. Slowly a few whispered exchanges during kathā , related to the kathā. After all, she is your friend .
    In the afternoon break, a group is singing bhajans so beautiful, and your intention is to listen, but suddenly a person turns up out of nowhere and starts asking intrusive questions "Who is your Guru, Ishṭa Deva, ...." and much to your shock and surprise, they keep digging for personal information and spiritual experience. As if they know something already. The sādhak first resists, saying, experiences should not be discussed . The person convinces them that Kṛṣṇa says it is OK if the listener has faith and devotion . So they agree, but keep telling the curious one "Let us go out, it does not feel good to speak in the hall even if it is break time , only a few people are here and no one can hear us" They do not think it matters and insist that "we sit here" logic: the bhajan ladies cannot hear us anyway.
    The evening session has a very very non-stop-talkative friend- associate with some common spiritual interest sitting next to you, and somehow, you end up whispering philosophical sentences in each otherś ears occasionally. Now the katha is over, but these two are continuing whispered discussion, and the katha-police walks up and catches you!
    (but neither the morning friend, evening friend, nor the afternoon' s Curious George). "Talking during kathā is a sin" he sayṣ.

    What will the mind' s reaction be?

    A] This kāya-mana-buddhi is like that Adi-shaktiś tornado-whirlpool, and it messed up. Despite good intentions . But wait, I am not the doer ! This prakṛtī (nature), shakti (energy) is the way it iṣ. It has acted . No use getting angry on this little kitten who spilt all the milk . Perhaps, knowing how vulnerable she is, it is better not to attend for the rest of the week, since it disturbs the environment ("can't take her anywhere").
    [Mind content and serene, no lamentatioṇ . Just apologizes to the kathā-police and goes home, never to returṇ]

    B] Apologizes to kathā police, and keeps beating itself up for messing up! How could I be sooooooo stupid and give in to "bad" sanga ? It is my fault, I should not get affected by otherṣ. There is no excuse. I am terrible. Regret, lament, make resolutions to control the mind next time, and doubles japa or meditation in that regarḍ.

    C] Gets upset and says -- well, they did it! I did not want to talk at all! It is all their fault! Shrugs .
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  2. #22

    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    Dear ameyAtmA,

    You write beautifully; it is a real joy to read you. I appreciate greatly the sentiments that you have raised.
    I must admit though, that it is very difficult for me as a Western European to be able to find any adequate response from those listed. I can not imagine this scenario either in the local church, nor in the local psychiatric centre; both of who claim to be the predominant temple.

    Kind regards.
    Last edited by Mana; 12 January 2014 at 03:28 AM.

  3. #23

    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    Dear Silence speaks,

    Quote Originally Posted by silence_speaks View Post
    a nice way to avoid accidents if you do not know how to drive the car.
    so if you do not know how to use the mind what will you do ? keep it thoughtless LOL!!
    Do we know what mind is? To my mind, it emanates from chandas, pace, pada and it is fed by the senses ...

    We all have a natural rhythm which flows from deep within, it is before mind and under buddhi; we hear much of the desires of a person, from that rhythm; desire most certainly raises the pace.
    To neither need nor wish to pass walking speed is simply indicative of a steady flow of heart, the seat of the mind; where as, senses such as vision are its kingdom.
    If our thoughts become agitated by desire, the sediment raised will certainly mask this most eloquent gait; from our selves, but not from others.

    Where is mind?

    Kind regards.
    Last edited by Mana; 12 January 2014 at 04:10 AM.

  4. #24

    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    Thank You silence. Let me just point to post#21 which was made a few days ago, but has just showed up now. When I made that post, your [this] post had not shown up
    Post 21 gives a scenario and shows how the mind need not be affected by the dance of prakṛtī because "I am not the doer, She is, She dances" , at the same time responsibility has to be taken to make sure the environment/surrounding is not affected by this little kitten of triguṇa.

    Quote Originally Posted by silence_speaks View Post
    Before that you have to tell me : How does mind affect you ?
    Lets do a "Step by step analysis" ... suppose you see something or something happens. how does mind affect us. Specifically, I would want you to elaborate on a few points :
    1. Does the presence of thought affect us or the absence of an object ?
    The presence of thoughts AS WELL AS the conscientious righteous saṃskār that the environment should not be affected by prakṛti associated with this body even though I am not the doer .

    2. A thought is supposed to be momentary, how is it able to touch you or trouble us ?
    If I am sarvātmā with firm lack of kartā-bhāv, i.e. firmly fixed in the consciousness that I am not the kartā (doer), then the thoughts are not me and should not affect me. However, again, the environment or universe should be disturbed to a minimum because of this little local kitten called prakṛtī that somehow spilt the milk and got scared. (The poor thing did not even drink the milk). Therefore, there are two choices

    1] Do not take little kitten anywhere, keep her home (keep car in parking lot)
    2] Train the kitten so that even if others are influencing her to act, she stays firm in her resolve. This IMHO is a circus of increasing sattva and decreasing ego.

    Please note that this is an effort, not for the local ego (ahaṃkār), but to make sure the universe is not negatively impacted. Perhaps this is why yogis lived in caves, not necessarily for themselves, but for others.

    It does not matter that the prakṛtī kitten got blamed for somebody else' s fault - which is simply yet another kitten . What matters is how it affected the entire satsanga of kittens . Since I am ONE, all kittens are MY Kittens so I do not favour one over the other, but it is about regulating the classroom.

    praṇām
    Last edited by ameyAtmA; 11 February 2014 at 02:46 AM.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  5. #25

    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    Dear ameyAtmA,

    When the friend prompted you to speak, why did you speak ?

    Question: Are you compelled to speak or is it a choice ?

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  6. #26

    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    Dear Mana,

    If there is a natural rhythm and a flow, what "Sees" the flow ?

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  7. #27

    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    Quote Originally Posted by silence_speaks View Post
    Dear ameyAtmA,

    When the friend prompted you to speak, why did you speak ?

    Question: Are you compelled to speak or is it a choice ?

    Love!
    Silence
    The mind has a choice, but the situation is too dynamic for some minds [This is just a case study by the way.] -- given the ingrained (or programmed/embedded) saṃskār of not "hurting others' feelings" plus, thinking this little responding is harmless, and one thing leads to another till they have completely forgotton the morningś resolve in the dynamic situation for that day. Some minds are vulnerable and get influenced by others, more so if they are really detached from the situation (this may sound topsy turvy but this is how it is). If you are indifferent, dispassionate (udāseen) about the world, you are not involved, hence not alert enough, and your attitude is "WHATEVER" , hence you just go with the flow. Dumb, I know.

    Also, had the mind any idea about this rule of "no talking even one word in the hall" (even if no one hears you) , it would not speak. Now, it is a lesson learned, but unfortuntely you never come across the same situation twice. Next time the protocol may be different and you may not know it until its too late. As if the only way to know the protocol is to break it.

    May I ask something ? Why not simply disconnect from everything, if I am not this body, mind, intellect, world, etc. etc.? If it is just a movie, why get involved in it, and when possible, why even participate? Just keep the car in parking... till it rusts and breaks
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  8. #28
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    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté


    I am in hopes we got to the part where "The Understanding that can Aid Meditation " will be fulfilled.

    Perhaps I was in the ~car~ that passed up this part. For me and the ~car~ (code for mind) , I would prefer to be without one. Mind is just more baggage.

    iti śiva
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  9. #29

    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    Dear Yajvan ji,

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    I am in hopes we got to the part where "The Understanding that can Aid Meditation " will be fulfilled.
    This statement of yours is like the criticism of Congress/BJP against AAP !! LOL!
    Yajvan ji, if you have studied what I have said with an open mind ... and not colored it with your already existing notions ... you should have got it by now in this post itself! The very fact that you still wait for it to be fulfilled means you have not been reading what I said!

    Perhaps I was in the ~car~ that passed up this part. For me and the ~car~ (code for mind) , I would prefer to be without one. Mind is just more baggage.
    And LO! in that "Preference" to be without one, is the mind !!
    Mind is a baggage if you carry it on your head.
    Who asked you to carry it on your head all the while ?
    Satvic mind, rajasic mind, tamasic mind ... all those notions and ideas ! who asked you to categorize people or yourself into all these and then try for a satvic mind as against a tamasic or rajasic one ?
    Its all these efforts that make you feel that the mind is a baggage!

    A Shadow is neither a trouble nor a baggage. One neither tries to get rid of it, nor hold onto it! This entire world, along with mind ... is no more than a shadow [Mind is a shadow ... Annamalai Swami]!

    And LO! If you have been attentive, here also is something profound enough to aid your meditation in a "Big" Way!

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  10. #30

    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    Dear AmeyAtma,

    Quote Originally Posted by ameyAtmA View Post
    The mind has a choice, but the situation is too dynamic for some minds [This is just a case study by the way.]
    Lets zoom more closely into it.
    a) Thoughtlessly can you respond ?
    b) If there is a thought, must you respond ?
    c) How can a thought trouble you ? How can it push or pull you ?



    May I ask something ? Why not simply disconnect from everything, if I am not this body, mind, intellect, world, etc. etc.? If it is just a movie, why get involved in it, and when possible, why even participate? Just keep the car in parking... till it rusts and breaks
    If you have understood it as a movie ... why would you want to move away from it ? The very fact that you want to move away from it, detach from it or remain separate from it means you give it some reality ?

    If a person knows his shadow to be a shadow and not a ghost ... does he try to get rid of it or produce it ? He is fine whether that shadow remains or is gone. He himself neither tries to move away from it nor move towards it!
    The very fact that a person is trying to bury the shadow means he treats it as real - a ghost!

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

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