Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 32

Thread: Suitable Scripture

  1. #11
    Join Date
    October 2009
    Location
    South of the center line
    Posts
    245
    Rep Power
    607

    Re: Suitable Scripture

    Namaste Amrut,

    I can see your logic behind recommending Smritis. You assume that the person is not mature enough to handle dense non-dual philosophy to begin with. But I will like to say that Purans should not be read until at least grasping basics of Vedanta. Purans cannot be understood and should not be understood without understanding the Vedanta. Purans glorify 'particular' Devtas and if not read with open attitude they can instill false notions of supremacy of one devta or one philosophy. Sometimes people can misunderstand the hidden meaning of singing praise of a particular God (to instill devotion) and can resort into false beliefs like demi-gods etc. Purans also contain things which are not very useful in current society. This is not to say that Purans are useless but only that they should be read with caution. I have myself gained a lot from reading Purans but from my experience I can tell that I read them after reading the basics of Advaita and that helped me.

    Though Soul of Light seems pretty mature from his post I will still like to say reading the basic message of Vedanta is important before reading particular God based texts. And when I recommend reading Upanishads I mean one should do so with accompanying commentary and not just direct translations of verses.
    When the light has risen, there is no day, no night, neither existence nor non-existence; Siva alone is there. That is the eternal, the adorable light of Savitri, - and the ancient wisdom proceeded thence (Svetasvatara Upanishad IV-18). :)

  2. #12
    Join Date
    June 2012
    Location
    Mumbai
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,210
    Rep Power
    1364

    Re: Suitable Scripture

    Quote Originally Posted by isavasya View Post
    Namaste Amrut,

    I can see your logic behind recommending Smritis. You assume that the person is not mature enough to handle dense non-dual philosophy to begin with.

    <content clipped>

    Though Soul of Light seems pretty mature from his post I will still like to say reading the basic message of Vedanta is important before reading particular God based texts. And when I recommend reading Upanishads I mean one should do so with accompanying commentary and not just direct translations of verses.
    Namaste Isavasya,

    You speak in opposite way. First Puranas and Itihas should be read. After that vedanta must be read.

    Veda also mean vidyA i.e. knowledge. ved-anta (vedAnta) means end of vidya meaning 'where knowledge ends'. So after knowing essence of vedanta, nothing new needs to be known. Knowledge ends. Vedanta is the highest philosophical truth. Hence they must be read by those who are inwardly pure.

    Being intelligent does not mean one is inwardly pure.

    veda has two parts - karma kANDa nad karma tyAga (sanyAsa) --> GYAna marg

    After one becomes inwardly pure by repeated practice of vedic karma kANDa, one is asked to leave the very karma (vedic karma) that gave him purity. Now it is time to dive deep within.

    Puranas and itihasa where created so that all can reach highest adobe (know the truth), but in a easy way. There are mantras of different deities mentioned in puranas. These mantra-s can be chanted by all.

    e.g. of OM Namah Shivaya is found in any purana, though it is a vedic mantra, this mantra can be changed by all.

    Also note that chanting just one mantra is different from vedic chanting of the whole of vedic shakha like vAjasayeni of Sukla YV or SAkAla of RV

    Puranas are not sectarian. They do not exclusively glorify one deity. Bhagavad Purana also glorifies lord shiva, Kurma Purana also glorifies both Vishnu and Shiva. Shiva purana also glorify Vishnu. Padma Purana also glorify Shiva and talks about holy places like Kasi.

    According to Maharshi Suta, all the Puranas are nothing but the mediums through which Sri Hari manifests himself

    एकं पुराण रुप वै तत्र पाद्मं परं महत् । ब्रह्मं मूर्धा हरेरेव ह्रदयं पद्मसंज्ञकम्॥
    वैष्णवं दक्षिणो बाहुः शैव वामो महेशितुः । उरु भागवतं प्रोक्तं नाभिः स्यान्नारदीयकम्॥
    मार्कण्डेयं च दक्षांग्रिर्वामो ह्याग्रेयमुच्यते । भविष्यं दक्षिणो जानुर्विष्णोरेव महात्मन: ॥
    ब्रह्मवैवर्तसंज्ञं तु वामज्जानुस्नदाहृतः । लैऽगैं तु गुल्फकं दर्क्ष वाराहं वामगुल्फकम् ॥
    स्कान्दं पुराण लोमानित्वगस्य वामनं स्मृतम् । कौर्म पृष्ठं समाख्यातं मात्स्यं मेदः प्रकी्र्तितम् ॥
    मज्जा तु गारुडं प्रोक्तं ब्रह्माण्डमस्थि गीयते । एवमेवाभवद्विष्णुः पुराणाव्यवो हरिः ॥

    पद्म पुराण, स्वर्ग खण्ड (६२।२-७)

    Brahma Purana is said to be the 'forehead' of Sri Hari,
    Padma Purana is said to be the 'heart' of Sri Hari,
    Vishnu Purana is said to be the 'right arm' of Sri Hari.
    Shiva Purana is said to be the 'left arm' of Sri Hari.
    Srimad Bhagawat is said to be his 'thigh',
    Narada Purana is said to be his 'navel',
    Markendeya Purana is said to be his 'right-foot'.
    Agni Purana is said to be his 'left foot',
    Bhavishya Purana is said to be his 'right-knee',
    Brahma Vaivrata Purana is said to be his 'left-knee'.
    Linga Purana is said to be his 'right ankle',
    Varaha Purana is said to be his 'left ankle',
    Skanda Purana is said to be the hair on the body of 'Sri Hari'.
    Vamana Purana is said to be his 'skin'.
    Kurma Purana is said to be his 'back'.
    Matsya Purana is said to be his 'stomach'.
    Garuda Purana is said to be his 'bone-marrow'.
    Brahmanda Purana is said to be his 'bone'.

    Padma Purana, svarga khaNDa (62.2-7)

    Note: These verses are found in both south Indian version with 5 khanda and bengali version with 7 khanda.

    So, all the Puranas being manifestation of different parts of Sri Hari's body are very sacred and capable of bestowing salvation.

    For a body to function properly, all parts are important.

    Source: Padma Puarana, Swarga Khand, International Gita Society / sankshipta Padma Purana

    According to Padma Purana, there was just one purana, which was split into 18 by Bhagavan Veda Vyasa.

    Sampradayas give sectarian touch to these puranas and smriti-s and shruti-s. Puranas themselves do not say such a thing. Those verses in padma purnas which vaishnavas gladly adhere to to prove Vishnu supremacy are, IMO, interpolated. I have already given another classification above, which looks more apt.

    Also note that no such classification is found either in mahabharata or in vedas. There is no such part in MBh or in vedas which is considered as tamasic, rajasik or sattvik. There are no upanishads which ar classified as sAttvik, rAjasik or tAmasik.


    ---

    there are saint like GYAneSvara, TukAram, Meerabai, KalidAsa, pAnini, patanjalI, madhusudan sarasvatI, appaya dikSita, upniSad brahmendra, and even rAdhA rAnI, who has never ever denigrated status of any deity.

    Even Lord rAma and kruShNa worshipped Shiva.

    rAma worshipped Siva linga is mentioned in AdhyAtma rAmAyaNa. kruShNa taking paSupata dixA is mentioned in kurma purANa. kruShNa also tells Siva sahasranAma in Mahabharata. SIva is also seen naratting glories of rAma to pArvatI (forgot exact reference).

    ---

    If you are talking about non-duality, then before reading Gita, one must first read basic texts called prakaraNa grantha-s like tatva bOdha, vivek chuDAmaNi, etc.

    I understand that you got clarify an dopen mind by reading vedanta. Still I would not ask anyone to read vedanta and then read puranas.

    If one can grasp what vedanta say, then there is no need to read even puranas, if you believe in advaita. All hat you need to do is mediate and establish yourself in SELF, i.e. know your true nature.

    ---

    Hari OM
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  3. #13
    Join Date
    September 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Age
    70
    Posts
    7,191
    Rep Power
    5038

    Re: Suitable Scripture

    Quote Originally Posted by Soul of Light View Post
    Namaste Kalicharan Tuvij,
    thanx for posting, I'll take care of it
    hello ShivaFan,
    I too don't know that Skanda purana is centered on the devotion of Kartikeya.. Thanx 4 ur knowledge, I'll search about shaiva bhakti on web..!
    Pranam
    Vannakkam: When you get so many opinions, it must be difficult to decide. Some say this, some say that. Of course most people will offer up what worked for them, occasionally not recognising or accepting that just because it worked for them doesn't mean it will work for everyone. So that leaves you with making the decision yourself. I hope, for your sake, your intuition guides you to the right scripture ... for you.

    Aum Namasivaya

  4. #14
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    India
    Age
    27
    Posts
    212
    Rep Power
    861

    Smile Re: Suitable Scripture

    Thank you for posting your replies, you all have lots of knowledge...
    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    Vannakkam: When you get so many opinions, it must be difficult to decide. Some say this, some say that. Of course most people will offer up what worked for them, occasionally not recognising or accepting that just because it worked for them doesn't mean it will work for everyone. So that leaves you with making the decision yourself. I hope, for your sake, your intuition guides you to the right scripture ... for you.

    Aum Namasivaya
    as EM sir says, it is too difficult to choice when you get lots of opinions, I am totally agree with this.. This replies gives me the knowledge about scripture which I don't even know before coming to this forum and their importance..
    isavasya ji says read Vedanta and then purana and amrut ji says read purana and then vedanta
    I have not any exeperience but from my view purana rises our devotion to god, and make us excited to know more about him..
    While Vedanta gives us pure knowledge and explains everything...
    I think god wish that isavasya ji read vedanta first and amrut ji read purana first
    as Eastern mind ji says, my destiny and god's will lean me towards perfect scripture for me...
    Everyone's spiritual path and destiny is different but most imp is destination which is that supreme soul.. I don't know what is the god's plan for me but I know he cares for all and thats why I am here, getting knowledge from all of you who are closer to destination than me, I don't know what will I read first but I know I will read all this scriptures
    eigher I get knowledge from puranas or from Upanishads first is not so important than I will exeperience and get knowledge from both
    again Thanks for posting
    regards
    Shivoham Shivoham Shivoham
    Aasato ma sat gamay
    tamaso ma jotirgamay
    mrityorma amrutamgamay
    (Bring me from asat to sat, bring me from darkness (ignorance) to light (knowledge), bring me from death to immortality)
    Om Namah Shivay
    Om Vishnave Namah

  5. #15
    Join Date
    October 2009
    Location
    South of the center line
    Posts
    245
    Rep Power
    607

    Re: Suitable Scripture

    Namaste Amrut
    Veda also mean vidyA i.e. knowledge. ved-anta (vedAnta) means end of vidya meaning 'where knowledge ends'. So after knowing essence of vedanta, nothing new needs to be known. Knowledge ends. Vedanta is the highest philosophical truth. Hence they must be read by those who are inwardly pure.
    I cannot agree more that vedanta is end of knowledge. But there is difference between reading Upanishads and understanding their essence. Only a realised soul understands the essence of vedanta and only for that soul vedanta means end of knowledge. Very few people attempt to get liberated in present life itself. That would be followers of Gorakhnath Sampradaya. For the rest better karma and better understanding or gyan of atma is way to move forward. It takes birth after birth to achieve Moksha.

    I definitely agree with you that our Purans are not sectarian but selective reading or biased reading generally makes them appear sectarian. In fact our Purans have lots of hidden meaning or purpose in detailing the stories. Many of these stories come directly from Vedas. For example, Bhagwan Shiva burning the Tripura or Bhagwan Vishnu measuring the entire world with 2 and half steps are derived directly from vedas. I only mean to say that understanding of basics of Vedanta can make one realise the intent of Puranic stories more easily than without having the knowledge of oneness of God-soul or Vedanta. Regarding karma kanda - Very small percentage of people really follow prescribed Vedic karma kanda. In this age people do not even perform sandhyavandanam regularly so it is rather difficult to find people getting pure for initiation to vedantic study after completing karma Kanda for a good amount of time. On the contrary reading Vedanta can give impetus to start following vedic life. Brother when I speak I speak after considering entire Hindu population. Many youngsters find Puranic stories unbelievable and lose interest in Dharma (the more urban the society- the more it is getting away from Dharma). But if you teach the outline of Advaita to these very youngsters they get convinced of deep teachings of our Dharma. After that they find sense in Puranic stories too.

    Last edited by isavasya; 23 May 2014 at 02:23 PM.
    When the light has risen, there is no day, no night, neither existence nor non-existence; Siva alone is there. That is the eternal, the adorable light of Savitri, - and the ancient wisdom proceeded thence (Svetasvatara Upanishad IV-18). :)

  6. #16
    Join Date
    September 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Age
    70
    Posts
    7,191
    Rep Power
    5038

    Re: Suitable Scripture

    Quote Originally Posted by isavasya View Post
    Many youngsters find Puranic stories unbelievable and lose interest in Dharma

    Vannakkam: This has been my experience as well. I was at a temple recently where there was a grade 8 class on a field trip. The Hindu instructor ended her presentation with the story of Ganesha getting his head chopped off.

    I saw lots of kids with a dumbfounded look: "What kind of religion is this?"

    Aum Namasivaya

  7. #17
    Join Date
    June 2012
    Location
    Mumbai
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,210
    Rep Power
    1364

    Re: Suitable Scripture

    Namaste Isavasya and EM ji,

    I understand what you say and in a way agree with you. Still, upanishads are end part and are to be learned later. Inner purity is a must, whether one has followed vedic karma kand or have purified himself through service and chanting God's name.

    I know that puranic stories are at times difficult to digest.

    See, if you read sahasranama, any hymn, glorification of Lord, then they are connected to a story. Stories are found in puranas and other folk tales.

    The problem is that now-a-days, puranas are not told to us since our childhood.

    So these days saints while explaining vedanta cover even prakaran granths and connect with stories from puranas. I also agree that after understanding vedanta, understanding puranas and finding them meaningful becomes easy. But then again, understanding vedanta is not child's play.

    If you do not have inner purity, then you will not be able to apply teachings of vedanta in practical life. This is my personal experience.

    But there is difference between reading Upanishads and understanding their essence. Only a realised soul understands the essence of vedanta and only for that soul vedanta means end of knowledge. Very few people attempt to get liberated in present life itself. That would be followers of Gorakhnath Sampradaya. For the rest better karma and better understandin
    See if all could have understood the essence of upanishads by reading, then there would not have been qualifications to learn upanishads.

    Realizing essence, AtmaGYAna is different. But there are certain class of seekers who are capable of understanding vedanta. They have lost interest in the world. We also have to accept that role of guru cannot be neglected. Simply picking up books and reading will not help you.

    Even for reading prakarana granths one needs certain qualifications, which is nothing but inner purity.

    You must have read many times statements such as, 'this is the most secret knowledge. I do not tell to all, but ...' Why these types of statements are said?

    Vedanta does not talk (focus) how to live in practical life. They are more concerned towards Self Realization. to cover masses, there are smriti-s, like manu smriti, parASara smriti (considered to be followed in this age), but they are neglected. Vedanta does not teach how to do business and what should be done to offenders.

    The problem is that, everyone wants a shortcut and no one wants to do sAdhanA. Everyone wants easy way.

    If you do not wish to read purana-s, then I have mentioned other options like reading shiva gita an listening to stotras and sri rudram, etc.

    If you have read puranas and or know certain stories and then when you read some hymn say hanuman chalisa, then the entire seen is built up in front of you. You find more bhava. these stories are found in puranas and itihasa. what if you have not read or know stories form ramayana or mahabharata.

    Krishna says, leave everything and surrender unto me. Okay, bhagavAn has said that we should surrender. But how to surrender? How to generate bhAva for bhagavAn?

    Here bhAgavat purANa comes into picture. Here there is life of krishna. By reading life of Krishna you may get emotionally attached to Krishna. There will be a certain bonding over a period of time. After emotional bonding then you listen to madhurastakam, you will feel joy and a certain type of attraction, that makes you interested in this song and you wish to keep listening to it. Earlier, you neglected the same song sung by same artist. Are you getting my point?

    (Story of Krishna is also found in mahabharata and other puranas)

    If you do not know who Rama was, then how will you generate bhAva for him. A simple statement that 'Surrender unto me' is not enough for you to successfully apply this verse in your life.

    Similarly, if you know the life of Shiva, his compassion you will also enjoy bhajans composed for him, describing his divine acts, his compassion, his lordship, you will be filled with devotion.

    Stories are important to get bonded with the supreme.

    Stories, hymns, regular puja and home, all these go hand in had and sow seeds of divine quest in our hearts which transform into shoot and transform into big tree at appropriate time.

    Naturally questions will be raised like EM ji pointed out. But there must be somebody who has answers to these questions. You should reach out to s/he to find solution.

    Are you getting my point. Do you agree?

    I understand that very few do veda parayana. but still the catch is that there has to be inner purity. Vedic karma kanda also brings inner purity. If you can gt inner purity by other means then still it is ok. There are saints who have not read any shastras, still they get divine guidance. Ultimately spiritual progress is important.

    Many people go to temple. So, I think Vaishnav acharyas blended procedures of temple worship with vedanta. On the other hand, Shiva yogis, Shiva bhaktas took yogic / tantrik path. Yoga places no restrictions that women cannot practice, etc. It is open to all. So is tantra. But progress depends upon your practice and spiritual growth. After crossing a certain level and purifying yourself and nadi-s, you are taught next step. Nilkanthacharya blended Shaiva agamas with vedas and vedanta.

    They did this to make things easy for us, laymen to cross the ocean of samsara in simplest possible way. One can select appropriate path according to inclination and mental make-up.

    Hari OM
    Last edited by Amrut; 24 May 2014 at 03:54 AM. Reason: edited typos, added last line
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  8. #18
    Join Date
    October 2007
    Location
    UAE
    Posts
    142
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Suitable Scripture

    Not that I write much anyway, but just one post to put a halt to this misinformation.

    [QUOTE=Amrut;116335]Namaste Isavasya,

    Veda also mean vidyA i.e. knowledge. ved-anta (vedAnta) means end of vidya meaning 'where knowledge ends'.[/YOUTUBE]

    There is no end to knowledge, which is the knowledge of Brahman's infinite attributes. Vedanta means the goal of knowledge and not the end of knowledge.


    E.g. of OM Namah Shivaya is found in any purana, though it is a vedic mantra, this mantra can be changed by all.
    The panchAkSharI occurs in the vishNu sahasranAma, which is an ithihAsa and hence is addressed to vishNu as "Om ShivAya namaha". Furthermore, the same occurs without the praNava in the narasimha purAna as a praise of Narasimha by Rishi mArkandEya as follows:

    prasIdAdhya mahAdEva prasIda mama kEshavaH: jaya kAla jayEshAna jaya sarva namOstutE|jaya shankara dEvEsha jaya shrIsha namOstutE jaya sarvagurO| jayE jaya shambhO namOstutE||lOkanAtha namOstutE vIrabhadra namOstutE| namas shivAya dEvAya namOstutE bhuvanEshwara||tvaM shivasa tvaM vasurdhAta tvaM brahma tvaM surEshvara: | tvaM yamasa tvaM ravirvAyur tvaM jalaM tvaM dhanEshwara nAthOsmI manasA nityaM nArAyaNamanAmayaM varadaM kAmadaM kAnthaManantaM sRnutaM shivam||


    Meaning: Narasimha! Purify me, O great Lord for whom the devas are mere playthings (mahAdEva) and delight me with your auspicious attributes, O Master of Brahma and Rudra (kEshava). Salutations to the destroyer (kAla), to the controller of all (iShAna), to the supremely omniscient One who is the creator and destroyer of all (sarva). Salutations to One who provides bliss to his devotees (Shankara) as the Lord of his devotees (dEvEsha). Salutations to the Lord of SrI mahAlakshmi (shrIsha). Salutations to the best of teachers (sarvaguru). Salutations to One who is of the form of victory (jaya) and to the One who causes happiness by his beauty (Shambhu). Salutations to the Lord of the Vedas (lOkanAtha) and to One who possesses auspicious ability to change others while himself remaining unchanged (vIrabhadra) . Salutations to the conferrer of auspiciousness (shivAya), to the affectionate (dEvAya) and to the Lord of the worlds (bhuvanEshwara).

    You are Shiva, You are Kashyapa, You are Brahma, You are Indra, You are Yama, You are Surya, You are vAyu, You are the waters, You are Kubera (ie, you have them as your body, yasya Atma sarIram). You are the ruler of my mind, which is always immersed in nArAyaNa, the bestower of desirable boons, that are of a nature of unbounded bliss, the destroyer of ignorance and of an auspicious nature.


    Note: namas shivAya dEvAya is addressed to vishNu here.

    Puranas are not sectarian. They do not exclusively glorify one deity.
    The suddha sAttvika purAnAs (vishNu and bhAgavata) are sectarian and vaidika. The mishra sattva purAnAs like padma purana, etc, the rAjasa purAnas and the tAmasa purAnAs indeed glorify several other deities, including vishNu. The portions glorifying vishNu are miniscule sAttvik portions and accepted. Others are rejected.

    Bhagavad Purana also glorifies lord shiva,
    No, it doesn't according to Sridhara Swami, Veeraraghavacharya and Vijayadhwaja Tirtha. Only vishNu is praised. Read the link, we have already covered it:

    http://narayanastra.blogspot.in/p/sh...hagavatam.html

    Kurma Purana also glorifies both Vishnu and Shiva. Shiva purana also glorify Vishnu.
    Precisely. Even in rAjasic and tAmasic as well as mishra sattva purAnAs supposedly glorifying other dieties, it is vishNu who is praised. And every acharya right down from Adi Shankara only quotes those vaiShNava sections of these purAnAs (Shankara and Bhattar quote from Linga Purana and SHiva Purana as well, but only the vishNu para portions).

    The explanation is given here in detail: http://narayanastra.blogspot.in/p/blog-page_9.html

    Padma Purana also glorify Shiva and talks about holy places like Kasi.
    Those are avaidika portions in a mishra sattva purAna

    According to Maharshi Suta, all the Puranas are nothing but the mediums through which Sri Hari manifests himself

    एकं पुराण रुप वै तत्र पाद्मं परं महत् । ब्रह्मं मूर्धा हरेरेव ह्रदयं पद्मसंज्ञकम्॥
    वैष्णवं दक्षिणो बाहुः शैव वामो महेशितुः । उरु भागवतं प्रोक्तं नाभिः स्यान्नारदीयकम्॥
    मार्कण्डेयं च दक्षांग्रिर्वामो ह्याग्रेयमुच्यते । भविष्यं दक्षिणो जानुर्विष्णोरेव महात्मन: ॥
    ब्रह्मवैवर्तसंज्ञं तु वामज्जानुस्नदाहृतः । लैऽगैं तु गुल्फकं दर्क्ष वाराहं वामगुल्फकम् ॥
    स्कान्दं पुराण लोमानित्वगस्य वामनं स्मृतम् । कौर्म पृष्ठं समाख्यातं मात्स्यं मेदः प्रकी्र्तितम् ॥
    मज्जा तु गारुडं प्रोक्तं ब्रह्माण्डमस्थि गीयते । एवमेवाभवद्विष्णुः पुराणाव्यवो हरिः ॥

    पद्म पुराण, स्वर्ग खण्ड (६२।२-७)

    Brahma Purana is said to be the 'forehead' of Sri Hari,
    Padma Purana is said to be the 'heart' of Sri Hari,
    Vishnu Purana is said to be the 'right arm' of Sri Hari.
    Shiva Purana is said to be the 'left arm' of Sri Hari.
    Srimad Bhagawat is said to be his 'thigh',
    Narada Purana is said to be his 'navel',
    Markendeya Purana is said to be his 'right-foot'.
    Agni Purana is said to be his 'left foot',
    Bhavishya Purana is said to be his 'right-knee',
    Brahma Vaivrata Purana is said to be his 'left-knee'.
    Linga Purana is said to be his 'right ankle',
    Varaha Purana is said to be his 'left ankle',
    Skanda Purana is said to be the hair on the body of 'Sri Hari'.
    Vamana Purana is said to be his 'skin'.
    Kurma Purana is said to be his 'back'.
    Matsya Purana is said to be his 'stomach'.
    Garuda Purana is said to be his 'bone-marrow'.
    Brahmanda Purana is said to be his 'bone'.

    Padma Purana, svarga khaNDa (62.2-7)

    Note: These verses are found in both south Indian version with 5 khanda and bengali version with 7 khanda.
    Glad you pointed out this. Yes, it is indeed srIman nArAyaNa who is parabrahman.

    So, all the Puranas being manifestation of different parts of Sri Hari's body are very sacred and capable of bestowing salvation.
    Correction: Only sattvika purAnAs and the sAttvika content in rAjasa/tAmasa purAnas is capable of granting salvation. Just because everything is from srI hari doesn't mean everything is pavitram. This particular slOka is a mode of meditation, for it is indeed srI hari who propagates boudha sAstra, pAsupata sAstra and tAmasa purAnAs to delude those unworthy of knowing him.

    For a body to function properly, all parts are important.
    True. The tAmasa purAnAs ensure that the kudRshtIs are given a road to follow, upon which they will eventually learn from their respectie deities they worship that nArAyaNa alone is Parabrahman.


    According to Padma Purana, there was just one purana, which was split into 18 by Bhagavan Veda Vyasa.
    Indeed that is true. When the purAna was One, it was just One with sattvika, rajasa and tAmasa as well as mishra sattva portions. These were created into separat purAnAs by vyAsa for the sake of classification.

    Sampradayas give sectarian touch to these puranas and smriti-s and shruti-s. Puranas themselves do not say such a thing. Those verses in padma purnas which vaishnavas gladly adhere to to prove Vishnu supremacy are, IMO, interpolated. I have already given another classification above, which looks more apt.
    SrI rAmAnuja quotes the classification openly in his vedArtha sangraha. Certainly, you wouldn't dare to say that a 11th century AchArya quoted an interpolation. Besides, in the link I gave above, the classification stands proven.

    As a further proof, here is our analysis of certain kUrma purAna vAkyas which show its tAmasic content:

    http://narayanastra.blogspot.in/p/th...retations.html

    (NOTE: Just because its named after vishNu doesn't make it a sAttvika. The reason is only because kUrma avatara is described there.

    Also note that no such classification is found either in mahabharata or in vedas. There is no such part in MBh or in vedas which is considered as tamasic, rajasik or sattvik. There are no upanishads which ar classified as sAttvik, rAjasik or tAmasik.
    What relevance does that play. It is precisely because of this that all vaidikas follow the veda > ithihAsa > purAna ideology.



    there are saint like GYAneSvara, TukAram, Meerabai, KalidAsa, pAnini, patanjalI, madhusudan sarasvatI, appaya dikSita, upniSad brahmendra, and even rAdhA rAnI, who has never ever denigrated status of any deity.
    The words of bhaktas need to be assessed with shAstra. And appaya dIkshIta as well as upanishad brahmEndra's views have been defeated.

    Madhusudhana Saraswati, Amalananda, SarvajnAtma Muni, Sridhara Swami, and Adi Shankara as well as his sishyas were vaishnavas only. Proof:

    Refer the links: http://narayanastra.blogspot.in/2012...hari-hara.html
    http://narayanastra.blogspot.in/2014...araswatis.html
    http://narayanastra.blogspot.in/2012...aka-lucid.html

    Note what SarvajnAtma Muni, an ancient advaitin who was a follower of Adi Shankara, says regarding Shiva in his refutation of the shaiva doctrine:

    The Lord of sages such as kaNAda and akShapAda, who is inferred as the Lord by virtue of creatorship of earth and the rest of the universe according to their philosophy, who bears the bull as his flag, who is called Shankara (i.e., Shiva/Rudra), is excellent in his knowledge compared to us and in our opinion. However, he does not possess unbounded prowess, rulership, or knowledge. Hence, he cannot have established the connection between the words of the Veda and the sense/object conveyed by the words. The Purvapakshin replies as follows: ‘Then, as per your siddhAnta, by what reasoon is the omniscient Lord proven, and how does the connection between names and forms come from Him?’ The answer is that we only conclude all these things from the statements of the shruti, such as ‘yaH sarvaj~naH sarvavit’ and ‘satyaM j~nAnaM anantaM’”


    So much for the theory. Note that Adi Shankara interprets both Dhananjaya and Shiva namas in the sahasranAma as "Arjuna and Shiva, who are vibhUtIs of vishNu". An explanation of Shankara's views and his sahasranAma bhAshya (parts of which are already on the blog), will be coming up shortly.

    Even Lord rAma and kruShNa worshipped Shiva.
    rAma never worshipped Shiva. Krishna worshipped the antaryAmin of Shiva. Refer to the following links for proof:

    http://narayanastra.blogspot.in/p/pr...-to-shiva.html

    rAma worshipped Siva linga is mentioned in AdhyAtma rAmAyaNa. kruShNa taking paSupata dixA is mentioned in kurma purANa. kruShNa also tells Siva sahasranAma in Mahabharata.
    AdhyAtma rAmAyaNa is not valid as a pramAna. Only vAlmiki rAmAyaNa is valid.

    And Shiva SahasranAma is an interpolated section that has never been referred to by ancient vedANtins. Furthermore, it contradicts events in the mahAbhArata itself. In contrast, there are over 40 commentaries on the vishNu sahasranAma. Proof is here:

    http://narayanastra.blogspot.in/p/blog-page_17.html

    The likes of Amrut will never learn, and it is a case of the blind misleading the blind. However, it is also true that the majority will hesitate to accept the truth. Follow your own path, stop spewing venom on true vaidikas like Adi Shankara, Ramanuja and Madhva who advocated only vaiShnava siddhAntha unnecessarily.
    [CENTER][COLOR="Black"][COLOR="Red"][COLOR="DarkRed"]No holiness rules over my freedom
    No commands from above I obey
    I seek the ruin, I shake the worlds
    Behold! I am blackest ov the black

    Ov khaos I am, the disobediant one
    Depraved son who hath dwelt in nothingness
    Upon the ninth I fell, from grace up above
    To taste this life ov sin, to give birth to the "I"[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR]

    [B]~ "Blackest Ov the Black" - Behemoth.[/B]

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P-JdwtK1DY[/url] [/CENTER]

  9. #19
    Join Date
    June 2012
    Location
    Mumbai, India
    Age
    29
    Posts
    1,088
    Rep Power
    1128

    Re: Suitable Scripture

    Posting this on behalf of the authors of Narayanastra Blog on their request

    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by Amrut View Post
    Namaste Isavasya,


    Veda also mean vidyA i.e. knowledge. ved-anta (vedAnta) means end of vidya meaning 'where knowledge ends'.[/YOUTUBE]


    There is no end to knowledge, which is the knowledge of Brahman's infinite attributes. Vedanta means the goal of knowledge and not the end of knowledge.




    E.g. of OM Namah Shivaya is found in any purana, though it is a vedic mantra, this mantra can be changed by all.
    The panchAkSharI occurs in the vishNu sahasranAma, which is an ithihAsa and hence is addressed to vishNu as "Om ShivAya namaha". Furthermore, the same occurs without the praNava in the narasimha purAna as a praise of Narasimha by Rishi mArkandEya as follows:


    prasIdAdhya mahAdEva prasIda mama kEshavaH: jaya kAla jayEshAna jaya sarva namOstutE|jaya shankara dEvEsha jaya shrIsha namOstutE jaya sarvagurO| jayE jaya shambhO namOstutE||lOkanAtha namOstutE vIrabhadra namOstutE| namas shivAya dEvAya namOstutE bhuvanEshwara||tvaM shivasa tvaM vasurdhAta tvaM brahma tvaM surEshvara: | tvaM yamasa tvaM ravirvAyur tvaM jalaM tvaM dhanEshwara nAthOsmI manasA nityaM nArAyaNamanAmayaM varadaM kAmadaM kAnthaManantaM sRnutaM shivam||



    Meaning: Narasimha! Purify me, O great Lord for whom the devas are mere playthings (mahAdEva) and delight me with your auspicious attributes, O Master of Brahma and Rudra (kEshava). Salutations to the destroyer (kAla), to the controller of all (iShAna), to the supremely omniscient One who is the creator and destroyer of all (sarva). Salutations to One who provides bliss to his devotees (Shankara) as the Lord of his devotees (dEvEsha). Salutations to the Lord of SrI mahAlakshmi (shrIsha). Salutations to the best of teachers (sarvaguru). Salutations to One who is of the form of victory (jaya) and to the One who causes happiness by his beauty (Shambhu). Salutations to the Lord of the Vedas (lOkanAtha) and to One who possesses auspicious ability to change others while himself remaining unchanged (vIrabhadra) . Salutations to the conferrer of auspiciousness (shivAya), to the affectionate (dEvAya) and to the Lord of the worlds (bhuvanEshwara).

    You are Shiva, You are Kashyapa, You are Brahma, You are Indra, You are Yama, You are Surya, You are vAyu, You are the waters, You are Kubera (ie, you have them as your body, yasya Atma sarIram). You are the ruler of my mind, which is always immersed in nArAyaNa, the bestower of desirable boons, that are of a nature of unbounded bliss, the destroyer of ignorance and of an auspicious nature.



    Note: namas shivAya dEvAya is addressed to vishNu here.


    Puranas are not sectarian. They do not exclusively glorify one deity.
    The suddha sAttvika purAnAs (vishNu and bhAgavata) are sectarian and vaidika. The mishra sattva purAnAs like padma purana, etc, the rAjasa purAnas and the tAmasa purAnAs indeed glorify several other deities, including vishNu. The portions glorifying vishNu are miniscule sAttvik portions and accepted. Others are rejected.


    Bhagavad Purana also glorifies lord shiva,
    No, it doesn't according to Sridhara Swami, Veeraraghavacharya and Vijayadhwaja Tirtha. Only vishNu is praised. Read the link, we have already covered it:


    http://narayanastra.blogspot.in/p/sh...hagavatam.html


    Kurma Purana also glorifies both Vishnu and Shiva. Shiva purana also glorify Vishnu.
    Precisely. Even in rAjasic and tAmasic as well as mishra sattva purAnAs supposedly glorifying other dieties, it is vishNu who is praised. And every acharya right down from Adi Shankara only quotes those vaiShNava sections of these purAnAs (Shankara and Bhattar quote from Linga Purana and SHiva Purana as well, but only the vishNu para portions).


    The explanation is given here in detail: http://narayanastra.blogspot.in/p/blog-page_9.html


    Padma Purana also glorify Shiva and talks about holy places like Kasi.
    Those are avaidika portions in a mishra sattva purAna


    According to Maharshi Suta, all the Puranas are nothing but the mediums through which Sri Hari manifests himself


    एकं पुराण रुप वै तत्र पाद्मं परं महत् । ब्रह्मं मूर्धा हरेरेव ह्रदयं पद्मसंज्ञकम्॥
    वैष्णवं दक्षिणो बाहुः शैव वामो महेशितुः । उरु भागवतं प्रोक्तं नाभिः स्यान्नारदीयकम्॥
    मार्कण्डेयं च दक्षांग्रिर्वामो ह्याग्रेयमुच्यते । भविष्यं दक्षिणो जानुर्विष्णोरेव महात्मन: ॥
    ब्रह्मवैवर्तसंज्ञं तु वामज्जानुस्नदाहृतः । लैऽगैं तु गुल्फकं दर्क्ष वाराहं वामगुल्फकम् ॥
    स्कान्दं पुराण लोमानित्वगस्य वामनं स्मृतम् । कौर्म पृष्ठं समाख्यातं मात्स्यं मेदः प्रकी्र्तितम् ॥
    मज्जा तु गारुडं प्रोक्तं ब्रह्माण्डमस्थि गीयते । एवमेवाभवद्विष्णुः पुराणाव्यवो हरिः ॥


    पद्म पुराण, स्वर्ग खण्ड (६२।२-७)


    Brahma Purana is said to be the 'forehead' of Sri Hari,
    Padma Purana is said to be the 'heart' of Sri Hari,
    Vishnu Purana is said to be the 'right arm' of Sri Hari.
    Shiva Purana is said to be the 'left arm' of Sri Hari.
    Srimad Bhagawat is said to be his 'thigh',
    Narada Purana is said to be his 'navel',
    Markendeya Purana is said to be his 'right-foot'.
    Agni Purana is said to be his 'left foot',
    Bhavishya Purana is said to be his 'right-knee',
    Brahma Vaivrata Purana is said to be his 'left-knee'.
    Linga Purana is said to be his 'right ankle',
    Varaha Purana is said to be his 'left ankle',
    Skanda Purana is said to be the hair on the body of 'Sri Hari'.
    Vamana Purana is said to be his 'skin'.
    Kurma Purana is said to be his 'back'.
    Matsya Purana is said to be his 'stomach'.
    Garuda Purana is said to be his 'bone-marrow'.
    Brahmanda Purana is said to be his 'bone'.


    Padma Purana, svarga khaNDa (62.2-7)


    Note: These verses are found in both south Indian version with 5 khanda and bengali version with 7 khanda.
    Glad you pointed out this. Yes, it is indeed srIman nArAyaNa who is parabrahman.


    So, all the Puranas being manifestation of different parts of Sri Hari's body are very sacred and capable of bestowing salvation.
    Correction: Only sattvika purAnAs and the sAttvika content in rAjasa/tAmasa purAnas is capable of granting salvation. Just because everything is from srI hari doesn't mean everything is pavitram. This particular slOka is a mode of meditation, for it is indeed srI hari who propagates boudha sAstra, pAsupata sAstra and tAmasa purAnAs to delude those unworthy of knowing him.


    For a body to function properly, all parts are important.
    True. The tAmasa purAnAs ensure that the kudRshtIs are given a road to follow, upon which they will eventually learn from their respectie deities they worship that nArAyaNa alone is Parabrahman.




    According to Padma Purana, there was just one purana, which was split into 18 by Bhagavan Veda Vyasa.
    Indeed that is true. When the purAna was One, it was just One with sattvika, rajasa and tAmasa as well as mishra sattva portions. These were created into separat purAnAs by vyAsa for the sake of classification.


    Sampradayas give sectarian touch to these puranas and smriti-s and shruti-s. Puranas themselves do not say such a thing. Those verses in padma purnas which vaishnavas gladly adhere to to prove Vishnu supremacy are, IMO, interpolated. I have already given another classification above, which looks more apt.
    SrI rAmAnuja quotes the classification openly in his vedArtha sangraha. Certainly, you wouldn't dare to say that a 11th century AchArya quoted an interpolation. Besides, in the link I gave above, the classification stands proven.


    As a further proof, here is our analysis of certain kUrma purAna vAkyas which show its tAmasic content:


    http://narayanastra.blogspot.in/p/th...retations.html


    (NOTE: Just because its named after vishNu doesn't make it a sAttvika. The reason is only because kUrma avatara is described there.


    Also note that no such classification is found either in mahabharata or in vedas. There is no such part in MBh or in vedas which is considered as tamasic, rajasik or sattvik. There are no upanishads which ar classified as sAttvik, rAjasik or tAmasik.
    What relevance does that play. It is precisely because of this that all vaidikas follow the veda > ithihAsa > purAna ideology.






    there are saint like GYAneSvara, TukAram, Meerabai, KalidAsa, pAnini, patanjalI, madhusudan sarasvatI, appaya dikSita, upniSad brahmendra, and even rAdhA rAnI, who has never ever denigrated status of any deity.
    The words of bhaktas need to be assessed with shAstra. And appaya dIkshIta as well as upanishad brahmEndra's views have been defeated.


    Madhusudhana Saraswati, Amalananda, SarvajnAtma Muni, Sridhara Swami, and Adi Shankara as well as his sishyas were vaishnavas only. Proof:


    Refer the links: http://narayanastra.blogspot.in/2012...hari-hara.html
    http://narayanastra.blogspot.in/2014...araswatis.html
    http://narayanastra.blogspot.in/2012...aka-lucid.html


    Note what SarvajnAtma Muni, an ancient advaitin who was a follower of Adi Shankara, says regarding Shiva in his refutation of the shaiva doctrine:


    The Lord of sages such as kaNAda and akShapAda, who is inferred as the Lord by virtue of creatorship of earth and the rest of the universe according to their philosophy, who bears the bull as his flag, who is called Shankara (i.e., Shiva/Rudra), is excellent in his knowledge compared to us and in our opinion. However, he does not possess unbounded prowess, rulership, or knowledge. Hence, he cannot have established the connection between the words of the Veda and the sense/object conveyed by the words. The Purvapakshin replies as follows: Then, as per your siddhAnta, by what reasoon is the omniscient Lord proven, and how does the connection between names and forms come from Him? The answer is that we only conclude all these things from the statements of the shruti, such as yaH sarvaj~naH sarvavit and satyaM j~nAnaM anantaM



    So much for the theory. Note that Adi Shankara interprets both Dhananjaya and Shiva namas in the sahasranAma as "Arjuna and Shiva, who are vibhUtIs of vishNu". An explanation of Shankara's views and his sahasranAma bhAshya (parts of which are already on the blog), will be coming up shortly.


    Even Lord rAma and kruShNa worshipped Shiva.
    rAma never worshipped Shiva. Krishna worshipped the antaryAmin of Shiva. Refer to the following links for proof:


    http://narayanastra.blogspot.in/p/pr...-to-shiva.html


    rAma worshipped Siva linga is mentioned in AdhyAtma rAmAyaNa. kruShNa taking paSupata dixA is mentioned in kurma purANa. kruShNa also tells Siva sahasranAma in Mahabharata.
    AdhyAtma rAmAyaNa is not valid as a pramAna. Only vAlmiki rAmAyaNa is valid.


    And Shiva SahasranAma is an interpolated section that has never been referred to by ancient vedANtins. Furthermore, it contradicts events in the mahAbhArata itself. In contrast, there are over 40 commentaries on the vishNu sahasranAma. Proof is here:


    http://narayanastra.blogspot.in/p/blog-page_17.html


    The likes of Amrut will never learn, and it is a case of the blind misleading the blind. However, it is also true that the majority will hesitate to accept the truth. Follow your own path, stop spewing venom on true vaidikas like Adi Shankara, Ramanuja and Madhva who advocated only vaiShnava siddhAntha unnecessarily.
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


    A Shaivite library
    http://www.scribd.com/HinduismLibrary

  10. #20
    Join Date
    October 2009
    Location
    South of the center line
    Posts
    245
    Rep Power
    607

    Re: Suitable Scripture

    Namaskar Omkara
    Posting this on behalf of the authors of Narayanastra Blog on their request
    Why can't people of Narayanastra blog post here directly and why do they need a messenger to put their views here? I do not have anything against people believing in Vaishnavism siddhanta or Krishna siddhanta but ludicrous claim that Jagat Guru Adi Shankara taught Vaishnavism is stupid and idiotic, much akin to Zakhir Nayak teaching Vedas. What Adi Shankaracharya taught is for followers of Adi Shankara to decide and not for the followers of Ramanuja and Ananda Tirtha to decide. There have been generations of gurus taking the position of Shankaracharya in Shankaracharya established mathas and all of them are pretty consistent on teachings of Adi Shankaracharya. There is no point in spreading ridiculous conspiracy theories that Adi Shankaracharya taught Vaishnavism. The followers of Jagat Guru know and have known what philosophy was taught by him.
    Last edited by isavasya; 24 May 2014 at 12:25 PM. Reason: Spelling
    When the light has risen, there is no day, no night, neither existence nor non-existence; Siva alone is there. That is the eternal, the adorable light of Savitri, - and the ancient wisdom proceeded thence (Svetasvatara Upanishad IV-18). :)

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Science Confirms Scripture Again
    By Deva Dasa in forum Science and Religion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 19 November 2010, 07:10 AM
  2. Scripture on a Deserted Island
    By Narada in forum Scriptures
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 31 August 2010, 07:14 PM
  3. starting out in shaivite scripture
    By simex in forum Shaiva
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 05 December 2008, 12:45 AM
  4. Scripture vs. Philosphical belief
    By Zardozi in forum God in Hindu Dharma
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 25 February 2007, 12:21 AM
  5. An hindu tradition suitable for me
    By orlando in forum Hot Topics
    Replies: 68
    Last Post: 25 August 2006, 10:55 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •