The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

[ameyAtmA]

Nice to see you back here, Silence

Dear AmeyAtma,



Lets zoom more closely into it.
a) Thoughtlessly can you respond ?

Yes, that is the problem

b) If there is a thought, must you respond ?

No, but I guess it is a "natural reaction, reflex or response" which happens in case of "avichārī" (impulsive) minds - that also has a deep root in this respect, kainkaryam and regard for others where the mind has forgotton itself ---- No amount of meditation can get it to SNUB others - it feels equivalent to being rude.

c) How can a thought trouble you ? How can it push or pull you ?

Sometimes, the mind is a child - who is full of joy and harmless , but others want to put unnecessary restrictions on it -- this is where the ego comes in So a thought can be trouble only and only because of ego.

If you have understood it as a movie ... why would you want to move away from it ? The very fact that you want to move away from it, detach from it or remain separate from it means you give it some reality ?

If a person knows his shadow to be a shadow and not a ghost ... does he try to get rid of it or produce it ? He is fine whether that shadow remains or is gone. He himself neither tries to move away from it nor move towards it!
The very fact that a person is trying to bury the shadow means he treats it as real - a ghost!

Love!
Silence

Very True! You are right Silence. It is this ingrained saṃskār to give utmost importance to each and every being, that is misunderstood and importance is given to the egos instead. Actually many of these beings are simply shadows not ghosts, but the ego-personalities are given so much importance in the mind that it thinks they are satya, and that all the interactions that take place are satya. Taking a rope to be a snake.
Plus, expecting [positive] acknowledgement from other shadows is also a function of the ego.

Thank You so much for your wisdom

praṇām

[ameyAtmA]

Wait a minute...I do not move away from the movie. I just don't go to the theatre! I have a choice of simply staying home and not buying the ticket . This is not running away from anything. This is effortless and the most natural default.Your assumption is that I am IN the movie to begin with, which is not the case. I am happy at home.You lesson is well taken, noted, for situations where there is no choice but to be surrounded by shadow-characters.

[silence_speaks]

Dear ameyAtmA ,


Once Ego is known as shadow and seen as shadow -- whether it continues or drops ... You remain Free.

Even so with expectation that others should understand. When something is taught its natural to expect that others learn. Why teach otherwise. Even if something is just shared [as in my case ], its shared with an expectation that others get it.

When Shankara wrote a commentary on Gita, he expected that it clears some confusion amongst people.

And yet, no expectation can bind, unless i take myself to be the mind! The crux of the point is ... if a thought is affecting me ... it means i have taken myself to be an entity in the mind !

The teaching "You are not the mind" is also at the mind but it serves to show that the mind is no more than a shadow.

"mind is a shadow" is Annamalai Swami ji's first statement of final talks ... and it ends with "There is no ego, so no question of killing it"!!


Love!
Silence

[ameyAtmA]

Even so with expectation that others should understand.

I was talking about myself, Silence, (expectation of positive acknowledgement from others in a function of ego) and not about the teacher

[silence_speaks]

Friends,


While some people are concerned about means to make their minds calm and relaxed, there are others who stop manipulating mental states, as they have discovered that irrespective of their mental states, they are ever fulfilled ! In other words, no mental state is able to affect their Self Abidance

Liberated living needs a fundamental paradigm change: instead of bothering about how to make the mind calm, see if you can bring in a certain aloofness to the states of mind - an attitude of I don't care, its not my business! This too a change in the mental outlook [a change in the buddhi], but without this shift in paradigm, one will find liberated living as almost impossible!

"I don't care, its not my business" is from Annamalai Swami.

This turns the aim of meditation topsy-turvy ! Instead of looking at ways to calm the mind ... one now says ... let the mind be thus and at the same time discovers his own Self as untouched by this. Right in the midst of mental turmoil ... without denying the mental turmoil ... one tells oneself ... I JUST AM! Mind cannot touch me!

When one is able to realize this ... thats called liberation...
Ashtavakra Gita says:
धर्माधर्मौ सुखं दुखं
मानसानि न ते विभो।
न कर्तासि न भोक्तासि
मुक्त एवासि सर्वदा॥१-६॥

Righteousness, unrighteousness, pleasure and pain are connected with the mind and not with the all-pervading you. You are neither the doer nor the reaper of the actions, so you are ever free.॥6॥

And make no mistake: This , if its told, its for the buddhi!

[silence_speaks]

The way to true meditative living, friends
is not via lulling the mind ...
its by identifying the ingredients that cause agitation and facing them.

For example: suppose someone is afraid of darkness.
One way is to lull the mind by changing ... so that the fear in the mind is eliminated or temporarily forgotten.

Another way is to face the darkness. Face it incrementally and become comfortable with it.

The first approach is a stop cap approach ... like putting a patient under anesthesia. After putting a patient under anesthesia, the wound has to be operated upon. Otherwise, its not solving the problem. Similarly ... lulling the mind is only a short term solution...
one has to ultimately convert one's life into meditative living and for that its important that one has to face the ingredients of the mind that cause conflicts in it.

Love!
Silence

[chandu_69]

Never knew it is that simple .

The way to true meditative living, friends
is not via lulling the mind ...
its by identifying the ingredients that cause agitation and facing them.

For example: suppose someone is afraid of darkness.
One way is to lull the mind by changing ... so that the fear in the mind is eliminated or temporarily forgotten.

Another way is to face the darkness. Face it incrementally and become comfortable with it.

The first approach is a stop cap approach ... like putting a patient under anesthesia. After putting a patient under anesthesia, the wound has to be operated upon. Otherwise, its not solving the problem. Similarly ... lulling the mind is only a short term solution...
one has to ultimately convert one's life into meditative living and for that its important that one has to face the ingredients of the mind that cause conflicts in it.

Love!
Silence

[silence_speaks]

Dear chandu_69,
With the right understanding, its very simple!
With wrong understanding it appears very difficult.

Love!
Silence

[Ajeet]

Jai Shri Maa

There are many ways to do meditation all are good however one that is simple is to watch your breath... Count 20 & then backcounting..

No need to go into the physics or the chemistry of the process.

I am sorry & please pardon me if my words hurt any of the learned writers here.

Jai Shree Maa.

Ajeet

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté

Jai Shri Maa

There are many ways to do meditation all are good however one that is simple is to watch your breath... Count 20 & then backcounting..

No need to go into the physics or the chemistry of the process.

I am sorry & please pardon me if my words hurt any of the learned writers here. Jai Shree Maa.

Watching the breath is quite reasonable... more on this matter is offered here on this HDF string if there is interest: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2323

That said, I am of a different opinion on counting. This engages the mind and one is now paying attention to count vs. having the mind settle down : example: Am I on 19 or did I miss 19. Do I need to start over, or do I just start at 19 ? Am I going backwards or forwards ? Oh make a note , since I am on 15, remember to pay the rent which is due on the 15th.

The intellect is engaged and the ego then gets a chance to 'feed'. The balance one thought was occurring is now lost to mundane events.

We are concerned about ever-refreshing the awareness vs. counting numbers.


iti śivaṁ