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Thread: The Rainbow - Thoughts of the day !

  1. #21
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    Re: The Rainbow - Thoughts of the day !

    Namaste Markandeya ji,

    I read your answer again but I think in spite of writing very well, this question is not answered in your reply :

    "Can Karma be overcome by worshipping, going to pilgrims etc. ?"

    The basic question is the above one. To explain it further : We worship certain form of God for alleviation of our sufferings. We go to pilgrims for asking God for to fulfill our desires. We keep fast etc. for pleasing God /certain form of God.

    The question is : "Does it help ?"

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  2. #22

    Re: The Rainbow - Thoughts of the day !

    Pranams,.

    The answer is yes if the correct practice is in place, that is the Dharmic alignment as put forth in the noble eightfold path.

    In Gita the cultivation is niskam karma yoga, to act with no attachment to the result.

    People are doing all sorts of activities within religion for so many different purposes, so how can the result be the same even if the external viewing of people doing pooja, pilgrimage etc be the same.

    Karma is very very complex as who knows how many births we have had, and what type of attitude we have been in when we are in the false state of doership, ( not quite sure if the word exists ). Many people are going to religious practices with some motive. In Russia when the communists wanted to win over the people they said every week you go to church and ask God for your daily bread, here take it for free from us from the government, and they did and the Church lost its power. So weak was their faith and the prayers they gave were superficial.

    If part of karma is cleansed how can we fully verify it, there is one story where one devotee in ISKCON was chopping vegetables and he cut his finger quite bad and he complained to Srila Prabhupada that he thought devotional service was Karma free, Srila Prabhupada in his candid way replied you should have been killed, meaning that his karmic reaction was minimized. How can we truly verify this, its very very difficult and science will not have any type of technology to measure these things.

    So i guess it comes down to sraddha and intropsect or self awareness, everything rests in the conscious experience within the process, but ultimately we can measure our progress by adopting the scientific method of sadhana and be aware of the results and constantly refining our practice best we can, then going back to Shastra to gain deeper understanding and doing our best to have pure motivation according to Shastra to gain the highest result which is freedom from samsara, but how many people actually are practicing for this purpose, most activities are tinged with material desires which is without limit due to craving.

    Everything requires penance, even Lord Rama after killing Ravana did penance to set an example, nothing in this path comes cheap.

    So you may or we may never really get any final objective understanding, until however we reach the other shore and see the insignificance of material bondage filled with desire.

    If say there was just one practice, which there is not and everyone was in a type of stereotypical mind set approaching religious practice then it would be easier, but that's not the world we live in. So it seems to me the answer is impossible and the world of karma is far to complex to fully understand and objectify. So we may do heaps of religious practice and not get any real result, perhaps a lot of things we do in practice may actually even set us back, thats why I mentioned the Dharmic alignment and understanding the process of Sadhana alongside awareness of the spiritual psychology.

    To summarize, the practice of any religious activity will produce some result, what that result will be is hard to define as the prayers and activities will be wide ranging. The only help we really should seek is the full realization of the pure self, anything less than this is not actually helping, but obviously we do ask for favours and do practice for material benefits along the way, that is also ok. If the activities of religious practice are done within the right level of practice the benefits will be apparent, but we may not always get immediately what we want. Recently I made a friend who has visited many holy places in India, he is Indian and spoke that when he was at these places he felt nothing special, he went with high expectation and felt slightly let down but kept an open mind. Many years later he said that the effect of the visiting these places he could feel a profound change in his life, although he is older now he says he visits them in his mind and he feels the power, once we get these subtle changes and notice them we will not need any verification from an outside source, we just know by default. However even if one does religious activities for some material gain or benefit to the individual based on desire then it will still bear fruit, but when who knows. The religious process is not like putting the kettle on and then waiting a few mins and we then have hot water straight away. I know many people who have lost faith because they have tried and tried and didn't seem to be getting anywhere, others I know who have felt the same thing but stuck with it have become mature and notice in profound ways the results.

    I have used the teachings of the Buddha in this reply because His life very much dealt with these things, he challenged the Vedic Brahmins who wanted to do puja and let the Dieties do all the work, he refuted this practice, I am a Theist and I accept this, we dont do business, God is not our servant, not until we become fully pure. He also fasted till his stomach was stuck to the back of his spine, but again he rejected this practice as ignorance. The he saw the person testing and tuning the stringed instrument and noticed that if the strings were tight they would snap if the strings were to loose they made a strange sound, only when the strings are correctly balanced did it make the right sound.

    Thats the best I can do Devotee Ji, I will wait for others to say more so I can also learn and get a better understanding

    Ys

    Md
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 16 December 2014 at 04:12 PM.

  3. #23
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    Re: The Rainbow - Thoughts of the day !

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Can Karma be overcome by worshipping, going to pilgrims etc. ?

    Being a Science student, I always believed in unbiased repeatability of an experiment for giving the same result every time if the theory of that experiment was right. What do I want to say ? If law of gravitation is right, then all experiments done based on this law will give the same result again and again irrespective of the fact who does the experiment. It cannot happen that if I do that experiment and I get one result but if someone else does the same thing, that fellow gets some different result (if the experiment has been done in the same environment and with similar parameters in the same way).

    #1. However, this fails when we apply to get this argument for having the grace of God by performing Pooja, going to pilgrims or performing some tapas etc.

    #2. Some do the same thing and get what they want while the other one does the same thing and doesn't get what he wants ! What can be the reason for this ?


    a) God doesn't exist and therefore there is no one sitting in heaven to answer our questions.
    ==> This was exactly what I deduced when I was young and started disbelieving in the existence of God !

    b) God cannot change the course of Karma and there is no point going to him for changing our fate.
    ===> If that is true, then what God is made for and what use is He for us ?

    c) God is partial and doesn't listen to everyone. He favours some and doesn't care for others.

    ====> God by definition cannot be partial otherwise, He can be anything but God.

    Can someone share his views on this issue before I share my views ?

    OM
    Namaste Devotee ji

    I am not well read, not even Srimad Bhagavad Gita completely. When some claims to have read something completely that person shouldn't have any doubt about it. Also should be able to clarify / justify all of the intellectual objections.

    I was contemplating on the questions you have raised as I can relate myself with them. Because I have had variety of experiences ranging from one pole to the other sharing all those inferences that emerged in the process of contemplation.

    I am making only one assumption. The expected result should be to establish Dharma or righteousness.

    During winter it takes more effort to dry clothes than during summer. The onset, intensity and duration of winter or summer depends on the place. So the effort to dry a wet cloth in Antarctica is different from India.

    There could be two questions at this moment.

    #1. Why there is Antarctica and India. ie Why not Antarctica or India alone?

    #2. Why don't we surf in Antarctica and dry clothes in India at the same time ie why can't we experience the best of both at the same?

    If eating delicious food or having sex are the best experiences can someone afford to have tongue or genitals alone? Also we should understand time taken to chew a chocolate or indulge in the act of sex are different.

    We have eyes to see as well as to shed tears. We need Antarctica as well as India. We need tongue as well as genitals.

    Though we have different components like tongue genitals eyes etc etc, we are identified as one single entity. Like wise we (you me Satay including the friends, enemies and others of you me and Satay) are the different componpent of ONE single entity (in my case Shreeman Naaraayan)

    Eye takes seconds to identify food, Tongue takes few minutes to chew, stomach takes hours to digest, reproductive organ takes probably days to produce Semen. For each of the organ respective results are achieved at varied interval and effort.

    So It is incorrect to say few get results easily and few don't.

    Rest of your questions are not valid from the glass I am looking. This is my understanding.
    Anirudh...

  4. #24
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    Re: The Rainbow - Thoughts of the day !

    Namaste Devotee ji

    Like us who don't discriminate among the various components of body Shreeman Naaraayan doesn't discriminate his body parts. And when we get ready treat one non performing body part (even to the extent of amputation) God takes necessary steps to treat his body parts.

    Our body never question on our integrity then how can we even think that Shreeman Naaraayan will be biased with himself ?

    I am open to discuss this in further details.
    Anirudh...

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