Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 31 to 39 of 39

Thread: Who Attains Moksha?

  1. #31
    Join Date
    January 2013
    Age
    43
    Posts
    327
    Rep Power
    601

    Re: Who Attains Moksha?

    Quote Originally Posted by grames View Post
    Like how Bhishma says, as he consumed the food offered by duryodana, his dhamic nature is clouded and once that blood produced by that adharmic anna is out of his body by the arrow of Arjuna, he was able to talk the "real dharma" and given us the Vishnu SahasraNama. Does that convey something more important and subtle.
    Namaste grames,

    This is the second time I am coming across this. Do you know who[Acharya or sampraday] has referred to this, just to add to my knowledge?


    Namaste Yajvan ji,

    I think what you are trying to say here is that no one is absolutely barred out from self realization(no matter however our understanding of that differs) . If so, I would agree as well because for some knowledge/vidhya shAstrAs claim that a person can cross over even sins like killing a brahmana (for money etc) or violating one's own guru.

    This is just an attempt to further understand your statements. You are saying:

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    So what of all the rules of yama and ni-yama. These are wonderful tools and methods for us to groom ourselves to look inward. They also bring order to our society when followed. They too prepare the soil to allow the growth of inward awareness.
    Which means a person without self realization, should definetely avoid wrong actions like eating cow flesh/violating guru etc. and

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    Yet for the one that resides within the Self ( ātma-niṣṭa ,established in the Self) the rules are like water being carried in in wicker basket i.e. of little worth. Then this spiritual being is following the law of dharma with no effort
    A person who is self realized will never indulge in such wrong actions anyway (for the most part because knowledge of right action is complicated). Just making sure that importance of abstaining from flesh and especially cow flesh etc is not downplayed in the eyes of the reader, though that's not your intent.

  2. #32

    Re: Who Attains Moksha?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sudas Paijavana View Post
    Pranam-s,

    Disclaimer: I was unable to find a thread with this topic, hence I am creating this one here. If there is a thread that has already answered the questions I am about to ask, please let me know as soon as possible so I can message Satay-ji in order to ask him to delete this current thread so it does not become redundant and so it does not take up forum space.
    - - - - - -
    Is Moksha applicable to non-Hindus, etc. etc. etc.?

    Shruti* clearly says that consumers of cow-flesh, regardless of racial and social background, do not attain "moksha"/"amrita-s" (immortality).

    Shruti also clearly says that those who do not offer the proper (Vrata) prayers and sacrifices and oblations, do not attain "moksha"/"amrita-s" (immortality).

    So, how is "moksha" described in the non-Shrutic scriptures of Hindu Dharma?

    How do the Shaivas, Vaishnavas, Shaktas, and other sects see "moksha"?

    Can the most morally just, socially valorous, etc. etc. etc. person attain "moksha" even if that person eats cow-flesh?

    Of Paramount Importance: Please utilize scripture in order to give foundation to your argument/thoughts/opinions and discussion.

    Bonus Question for Vaishnavites: Shri Krishna says that anyone can approach him with any type of devotional method (be it on a "leaf", "yajna", etc.). But, what about someone that approaches Him even though that person is a eater of cow-flesh? How do eaters of cow-flesh attain "moksha" if they approach an almighty God like Shri Krishna who Himself was a cow-herd during his youth (as per Līlā)?

    *By Shruti, I literally mean: Rig, Sama, Yajur, and Atharva. Nothing more, nothing less.
    What the shrutri is trying to tell us is that people who do "bad things" do not attain moksha, back in the day that meant not eating cow flesh...
    Now a days not so much, for a knower of Brahman, their is no distinction between foods, so they don't even realize what they are eating, its all God to them.

    There are sectarian boundaries in enlightenment, only different methods for getting there, but mainly one gets there through unyeilding devotion to the Divine, the effort to practice virtue(whatever is considered virtuoso in your society), and knowledge of the non-dual God... some traditions say it has parts, some says it could neverbe split up.. some traditions outside of Hinduism don't even call it God...

    Liberation is attained through getting rid of the me and focusing on the divine substratum of Mother-Nature, called effectionatelly; Krishna, Devi, Shiva, etc.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    June 2010
    Location
    Kolkata
    Posts
    834
    Rep Power
    491

    Re: Who Attains Moksha?

    As Yajvanji has pointed out - Knowledge is the only way towards moksha. To gain knowledge of the kind which is required, the mind needs to be in bhakti yoga and also karma yoga.

    However the intent is not merely gaining knowledge (which I find most of the forum participants are excelling - srabanam part) but to rediscover the knowledge, through analysis (mananam) and then assimilate the same in the lifestyle (nividdhasanam).

    In this pure knowledge state there is no body - however said the means to gain knowledge is through the body - thus the body also need to be considered for for enabling reach that state.
    Love and best wishes:hug:

  4. #34

    Re: Who Attains Moksha?

    It depends on the people. In the turyiya state there is no distinction of body, but when the five or six senses are active, the world including the body appears.

    Moksa is an invisible line, that sadhaks cross when he mind rests contently in the energy of the self or God.
    In essence their is no final. enlightenment is meant to free you from an ego, not improve your ego. In fact one could easily reason that terms like moksa and enlightenment, are concepts created by non-jivamuktas to describe a jiva mukta

  5. #35
    Join Date
    December 2012
    Posts
    552
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Who Attains Moksha?

    Namaste

    Some thoughts on this subject from the vaishnava point of view.

    There are some statements in the scriptures such as "If a person situated in transcendental knowledge eats anything impure he remains pure nevertheless."
    Statements such as this one are not permission to a person situated in transcendental knowledge (self-realized soul) to eat anything and everything he comes to mind. Such a person is not free to sin just because he is a self-realized soul. Such a person should not think "I am a self-realized soul, I realized the Self, I am based in Brahman and I have transcended this bodily existence of body and mind, I am above the karmic reactions, and now I can do what I want and eat whatever I want to, even if it is a sin".
    Vaishnavas have rejected such ideas as nonsense. Such a person can speculate that he can do what he wants to do, eat any kind of sinful food and even meat and cows because he is allegedly above the karmic reactions, but if he thinks so he will be destroyed.
    Statements such as this one I gave at the beginning are not permission to commit forbidden acts, but applies only to times of emergency.


    regards

  6. #36
    Join Date
    January 2013
    Age
    43
    Posts
    327
    Rep Power
    601

    Re: Who Attains Moksha?

    Quote Originally Posted by brahma jijnasa View Post
    Statements such as this one are not permission to a person situated in transcendental knowledge (self-realized soul) to eat anything and everything he comes to mind. Such a person is not free to sin just because he is a self-realized soul. Such a person should not think "I am a self-realized soul, I realized the Self, I am based in Brahman and I have transcended this bodily existence of body and mind, I am above the karmic reactions, and now I can do what I want and eat whatever I want to, even if it is a sin".
    Your response reminds me of some dangerous recent deviations in Advaita or non dualism as popularly known in the west. Basically, while the Shankara mutts and some others with a traditional touch stress on sense control/purity/vairagya as a necessary prerequisite to enlightenment, some modern Advaita propounders are more relaxed about it. Since the Self is claimed to be always available for a saint or a sinner alike despite their karma, sadhanas stressed in our shAstrAs slowly begin to take a back seat.

    The only sadhana seriously considered, if any, is to be aware of awareness or realize that I am the pure consciousness etc. Since the Self can be thought off during meditation or while sitting in a bar, there is no real motivation(though they may not disagree) to do any sadhana for purity like avoiding cow flesh etc. And those who do not stress the requirement of purity as a prerequisite, pave way to another set of organizations which claim that infact these sadhanas only feed the unreal ego and therefore "being" is the only thing which makes sense.

    For all these modern offshoots, this thought becomes the only truth that is to be derived out of entire the Vedic wisdom and even out of all other relgions. The thought is - What is done to the unreal ego/body does not affect the Self that I am and so thoughts like I am pure or I am impure only feeds the ego. Most discussions on the vedic wisdom sound to them as bookish, argumentative or missing the point. And everyone, enlightened or not, is on the same the level and there is no question of wether food affects one before or after.

    Basically when statements of our shAstrAs start to feel redundant or less forceful its better to go back to the original tradition or question the whole philosophy and approach other schools of Hinduism.
    Last edited by jignyAsu; 12 November 2013 at 12:46 PM.

  7. #37

    Re: Who Attains Moksha?

    Respected members͵

    I have been reading the recent messages in this thread. I found some theorization on what is allowed vs what-is-not-allowed to a self realized soul.

    Realization is a very͵ profoundly great state. At that level Brahmaandam goshpad aayate. The entire universe is seen like the mark of a cowʹs foot. A realized soul chooses to remain in such a world for only one reason => profound COMPASSION for ignorant souls like me. Even to be glanced at͵ by a realized soul͵ for a moment͵ confers great bliss and spiritual upliftment. All these vidhi-nishedhas talked about are applicable in this worldly level͵ not to one established in Braahmi Sthithi. If he kills a thousand people͵ it is because they are so blessed as to get sayoojyam in his hands͵ feel no doubt about it.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    December 2012
    Posts
    552
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Who Attains Moksha?

    Namaste
    Quote Originally Posted by jignyAsu View Post
    The thought is - What is done to the unreal ego/body does not affect the Self that I am and so thoughts like I am pure or I am impure only feeds the ego. Most discussions on the vedic wisdom sound to them as bookish, argumentative or missing the point. And everyone, enlightened or not, is on the same the level and there is no question of wether food affects one before or after.
    If someone really thinks so, then he is certainly above the laws of nature.

    regards

  9. #39

    Re: Who Attains Moksha?

    A person who has previously eaten meat or has partaken of any action that is adharmic will face the result. If a person is currently eating Mother Cow and if they consider themselves as following the Dharma are misguided and will get the correct result of their actions.

    Only one that cultivates sattva can progress on the path of transcendence.

    Sri Krsna says in Gita 9.30 no matter what one has done salvation and forgiveness is waiting for the soul who turns his face towards Krsna in surrender.

    Later in 18.66 Krsna says that all dharma should be abandoned, and surrender, all karma will be cleansed.

    This makes me think of the time of the Lord Buddha, where the Brahmins where so degraded that misinterpretation of Shastra and Veda for ones own personal gain was paramount.

    Lord Buddha taught a very raw version of Dharma, leaving ritual and belief aside and promoted dharma with individual awareness of action and reaction and dependant arising.

    Hindu's or any other form of spirituality that kills for food will make the progress more slow and more uncomfortable.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Value of Moksha to Mind
    By Eastern Mind in forum New to Sanatana Dharma
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 31 December 2010, 01:22 AM
  2. Vimalakirti Sutra
    By shian in forum Buddhism
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 31 May 2008, 02:49 AM
  3. Maha Periavaa's (Kanchi Saint)Article - Rudraksham
    By Arvind Sivaraman in forum Science and Religion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11 August 2007, 07:24 AM
  4. Rahasya Traya Saram - A Translation
    By ramkish42 in forum Vishishtadvaita
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 15 August 2006, 04:46 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •