Basic questions

[Mana]

Dear Rohiniranjan,

LOL, but have THEY not, already? ;-)

Joking aside ...

You know this reminds me of my first massive excursion into Godconciousness; I had meditated upon this very subject at that time, though in a very different context; I was contemplating the words of William Shakespeare whilst regarding the world about me, the way in which we currently enjoyed the art of the written word and of course of drama also, now predominantly in the form of the soap opera or a Hollywood film; the thought that I had at the time remains with me to this day and my previous spiel was based in its effluence, the thought being that our communicative art has fragmented, dissolved through this process of continual differentiation.
That the fractal nature of time and space, to the medium of the word, crates a dissolution or differentiation through time of both meaning and use; I hesitate to say entropy as I believe it to be a wave and not a total dispersal of sense.

There is a birth chart that I would be interested to study, of a man who is arguably responsible for the sales technique of Arudha that now predominate our materially engendered society, that of Edward Bernays; he was the cooperate Guru that inspired the whole idea of manipulative sales and a base of Arudha in industry; I have the date but not the time of his birth.

He has done exactly as stated in the previous post.

Kind regards.

[Mana]

Opps; I have pressed the wrong button here I think, as a double post ...

But whilst I am here I might make use of the space, look at that Sani mangala aspected by Rahu; he convinced the world that young Women should smoke and aided the sale of instant cake mix, by creating the psychological trick of adding an egg; so that one felt more motherly ...

Sullied Kanya, and gains if this were the 11th house putting 8th lord in Lagna, arguably explaining the occluded nature of his actions.

Kind regards.

[Rohiniranjan]

Dear Mana ji,

Thanks for the sharings. Human beings have evolved into one of the species who have the ability to think in words and they can communicate with others in words that sometimes others understand, at other times not based on the understanding about the words, their connotations and nuances. This is a blessing, generally, but also can be a problem. But no matter how well-endowed one is, translating an experiential moment into words can be the difference between ice and water!

As you say, chimpanzees are equipped with a very similar genome as human beings, I once read about scientists trying to teach a chimpanzee to communicate and learn things, etc, but if I recall correctly, its ability to learn and communicate (after great efforts on the part of the experimenters) never really progressed much beyond what most *normal* human infants achieve at approximately six months of age.

While building bricks might be similar, in one the genes find expression more readily, while in others those remain unexpressed. Unless they speak, we would be hard-pressed to really know if they have the ability to think etc. Mother Nature looks after them (and other animal species) via instincts. Why such Leela was created by MA Nature is beyond our guesses and theories, etc. Maybe the Leela is simply a show-case of evolutionary experimentation! Speaking of similarity, mice too have very similar genomes as human beings. Mouse to Monkey to Man does make a very nice story.

Regards,

Rohiniranjan

[Rohiniranjan]

Opps; I have pressed the wrong button here I think, as a double post ...

But whilst I am here I might make use of the space, look at that Sani mangala aspected by Rahu; he convinced the world that young Women should smoke and aided the sale of instant cake mix, by creating the psychological trick of adding an egg; so that one felt more motherly ...

Sullied Kanya, and gains if this were the 11th house putting 8th lord in Lagna, arguably explaining the occluded nature of his actions.

Kind regards.

Mana ji,

Since you specifically pointed at E.B.'s chart, born on 22 Nov 1891, and wrote:
"Sullied Kanya, and gains if this were the 11th house putting 8th lord in Lagna, arguably explaining the occluded nature of his actions."

I looked at the config. of that day, since time is not available, although I did not search extensively. If birth was before noon (approximately), mars could be the AK while moon would be AmK for few hours, if very early birth that day, then mars the AK. The AmK changes quite a bit and also depending on whether following the 7 or 8 karaka schemes (diversity of choices exists)...


Though, *tropical*, you might be interested in this astro article about Bernay, 'The father of SPIN'

http://astrology21.co.uk/b1edwardbernays.html

Regards,

Rohiniranjan

[Mana]

Dear Rohiniranjan Ji,


Thank you for posting the link, though tropical astrology is very unfamiliar to me, foreign even; but an interesting read. Upon considering the chart a little further, I have come to the conclusion that the natives character is most probably that of aslesha nakshatra, fitting the description well. Where as magha would not fit his apparent life so easily. I am rather lost in the tropical chart already, with out the nakshatra!

Chandra (Moon), is likely in Karaka rasi also, cancer; the sign is its self, significant of the masses the people. Where his mind (Moon) undoubtedly dwelt.
I shall take it as a nimita, that the Moon is in aslesha as I write, a little appraisal for extra consideration.
I think Mangala (Mars) as atmakaraka, rather than Chandra.
Perhaps I can try to explain why, his actions were not to my mind those of a caring individual but those driven by a desire for control and manipulation, and it is quite arguable that his fear of the actions of the crowd, which he aparently expressed, came from a background steeped in a certain amount of mistreatment, as one who's atmakaraka is mangala will so often attract. Where as Chandra AK would have made his view of the populous a little less fearful and, I think, somewhat more trusting in humanity.

It is worthy of note that is chandra (moon) is not aspected by Guru (Jupiter) at all, being in 6th from Jupiter in his chart, so he lacks Gurus wisdom at this very important level. That The Mangal Sani combo are in the 3rd from Chandra, his parakrama of the mind.
Mangal in Kanya (virgo) can represent printing, with sani and rahu's aspect I think propaganda and advertising, then as previously stated; cigarets for women.
If Lagna is Ali rasi (scorpio) then AK is in 11th, which is very fitting his success and character, many planets in lagna indicates the native will probably leave his place of birth and Rahu in 7th is most excellent for his many contracts and clients.

Just musing really though.

An interesting character and chart; one that I should like to study further; I would love to hear your thoughts also.




Kind regards.

[Rohiniranjan]

Mana ji,

You explained and justified your analysis well. I do not really have any particular thoughts at this moment about M. Bernay since I do not know much about him, other than what you told us very briefly or a quick glance at the wiki did.

Jupiter, though does have a connection with moon, unless you do not think much of or at all about rashi drishtis.

Tropicalists generally use the noon or mid-night and some consider simply the sunrise chart (beginning of the day and for us folks, the weekday) -- I salute their intrepid natures!

Intrepid jyotishis generally have run with the moon-chart in such cases. I salute their intrepidity as well! Following that approach, we probably end up with the two possible positions: karkata or simha Chandra lagna. The latter will make it a late afternoon (or later) birth. I am guessing that he was a good writer and eloquent and convincing to the masses. Going by your statement that the 4th represents the masses, simha Chandra lagna does seem better connected on cursory glance with the exchange between L2 and L4, the budhaditya in 4th with venus (appealing) and ketu's veil embracing as well; a veil that you are attempting to unveil and have now gotten me in trouble too, as your accomplice in this pursuit! :-) Your ketu must be in an interesting place too, I suspect! <LOL>

I suppose this makes us both intrepid as well. My heart sinks though at the recollection of that saying "... where angels fear to tread!". Just a joke, not to be taken personally!

I will give it some more thought since I am certain you are serious about this, but let us both try a bit more and see if we can track down his birthtime somewhere and get a better fix on the target of our attention ;-)

Regards,

Rohiniranjan

[Mana]

Dear Rohiniranjan Ji,

Of course I am sorry, I have first heard about this fellow in the documentary "century of the self" which has struck a chord in me somewhat; thus my interest.
It would seem that Edward Bernays along with his family the Freuds have been some of the most influential "Guru" figures of the Western industrialist age; I am particularly interested in how they have effected societies globally.
You are quite right about Gurus rasi dristi on Chandra, this will have been, we might assume, how he was able to achieve so much.
Mangal and Sani rule the world today; my interpretation being, old men and army's. Interesting if we consider this influential figures' feelings as to the need for the people to be controlled.

Oh I have no fear to tread here, next up is Sigmund Freud; why he wanted to sleep with his mother and kill his own father, more importantly, why he chose to project an image of his own self, upon the entire Western world ...

How would you propose we seek his actual time of Birth? Some letter writing perhaps; I am new to astrological journalism and have no background in this at all.
My next step would be to go through all the planet lordships for the
suspected lagna to see what image emerged of a personality.

Thank you Rohiniranjan, it is a pleasure to discuss Jyotish, it has become such a large part of my life yet but as yet I have nobody with whom to really discuss Jyotish with.

Kind regards.

[Mana]

Namaste,

A closer look at his nakshatra, seem to confirm to me that placement in Aslesha is apt, this puts sani in his 4th and Mangal in his 6th nakshatras consecutively. The 4th Nakshatra is a very powerful one giving people emense drive when Graha are found here, they often become very rich, and the 6th is indicative of power.
This would make his 5th Naksatra indicating his mind, Hasta, ruled by chandra, as such his thoughts dwell upon people.
Had his birth been later and chandra passed into Magha; ghe would have had mangal in a mangal nakshatra for the 5th. This would have indicated an extremely aggressive hot headed character; I don't think that this is the case.

Rahu will be in the 22nd Nakshatra of hearing and faith; Rahu here gives doubts, showing a lack of faith and perhaps explaining his lack of faith in people also. A powerful effect with other placements considered.

Another possible indication is is the yoga of Budha and Sukra in the 10th nakshatra from aslesha, that of of karma; inspiring the Rajas in people was his life's work.

[Rohiniranjan]

Dear Mana ji,

Good Lord, NO! I was just suggesting using available search engines etc, nothing more intensive, at this time!

Apparently he lived to be 103! Pretty strong longevity might be something to be considered in the matrix you are using. Also facial features etc as appear in his Obituary:
http://www.theguardian.com/media/200...arketingandpr1


This video is nearly an hour long but might be of some help in your research and study of the man and his uncle Freud and societal framework and the psyche of those living in those times:
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-century-of-the-self/

From my superficial vantage, hailed or baned, Freud was perhaps a dedicated man. The societal framework (and not just Austria!) did have the (unhealthy) norm of self-repression etc. There was an artificiality and a false sense of ego and personal honour and so on. Weakness, sadness, frustrations were not acceptable to speak about even with close ones. Freud probably put his finger on the pulse and provided a non-judgmental environment for people to essentially confess freely which although priests provided such service, due to the religious weave was not quite the same or perceived as 'talking to an amorphous wall' which the ideal psychoanalyst was reminded as a frame of mind to maintain, or so I have heard. Freud began with a sincere desire to help but at some point fell too much in love with the framework he created and then felt to fight tooth and nail to defend his brain-child, psychoanalysis.

Now, society in general has made a polar swing in some societies if not globally. People blab their souls on face book and even in real life and so on and so forth.

I suppose having experimented with both poles, next step would be for society at large towards finding A BALANCE and the balanced approach. It will not be one TEACHER or MAHAGURU, but a multi-pronged approach, which I sense has started already.

Sorry for the sermon ;-)

Regards,

Rohiniranjan

[Mana]

Dear Rohiniranjan,

Please preach away, I am quite in agreement with many of your views so it is a pleasure to read. Though I feel my life's experiences may have led me further from the Western Ways, I am quite allergic to western theological terminology; though I appreciate wisdom in any guise.
The mood swings of western society, are certainly extreme; I have often thought this due to the sparsity of their Gurus and a stark inability to really see reality, perhaps due to overt objectivity, we are a violent bunch. It would seem that we rather prefer the occasional mid millennium crisis, amidst a few suffering saints and the occasional savior, between periods of total ignorance and darkness; rather than a smooth flow of knowledge, of lineages, wisdom passed on by masters. Combined natural aggression with our narcissistic delusions of superiority, and it is all quite a muddle, a dangerous one at that in so far as our environment is concerned. Although the education system has tried to recreate this system, they seem to have somewhat missed the point of it all.
As you have wisely stated balance is key. Perhaps this is more due to a geographic or meteorological phenomenon; rather than anything else?

Ok I shall try to leave Freud for another day; though I can not resist just a little dig:

Let us examine 12th from Chandra lagna; this tells us of his family life:
Here we find Rahu eclipsing surya in mangals aspect and also sukra; now from this vision of family; what might we ascertain about his psychological family fundamentals?

I ask my self; is this really a sound base for an educational system, let alone grounds for any serious tantra and indoctrination?

Sorry hms for my ramble in your thread; perhaps you have some ideas as to how we might establish a time of birth for Edward Bernays?

Kind regards, thank you for your conversation.