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Thread: Adi shankara Posts - Jalpa Thread 2

  1. #71
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    Re: Adi shankara Posts - Jalpa Thread 2

    Pranam

    Quote Originally Posted by Omkara View Post
    This discussion is not about whether Shankaracharya wore bhasma or not, it is about whether he beleived that all gods are the same.
    You brought in the argument that he could not have been a Vaishnava as he wore bhasma. It has been amply demonstrated from Padmapada's work, as well as Shankaracharya's own commentaries that he considered only Narayana as the Supreme Brahman.

    --.
    We are simply going round in circle getting just about no where, you are playing with words, what he says about supreme Brahman is nirvikalpa formless nirguna and here you want us to believe otherwise you deliberately ignore the Saguna part just shows your intentions. You are on record of saying this;

    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...aiva#post94239

    Make your mind up.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  2. #72
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    Re: Adi shankara Posts - Jalpa Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    what he says about supreme Brahman is nirvikalpa formless nirguna and here you want us to believe otherwise you deliberately ignore the Saguna part just shows your intentions.
    Certainly he regards Lord Vishnu as Saguna Brahman only, supreme at a vyavharika level. No one disputed that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    You are on record of saying this;

    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...aiva#post94239

    Make your mind up.
    Some of the opinions I expressed in that thread have undergone revision in light of new evidence.
    I was mislead by malicious misinterpretation by some Neo-Advaitins of Shankara's Vishnu Sahasranama Bhashya. He has not upheld Shiva=Vishnu in that bhashya.
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


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  3. #73
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    Smile Re: Adi shankara Posts - Jalpa Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Omkara View Post
    He has not upheld Shiva=Vishnu in that bhashya.
    Namaste, omkar.

    Adi shankara stated shri vishnu is shiva and shiva is vishnu in his vishnu sahasranamam bhashya.

    Here are verses from adi shankara's bhashya :

    ।। " twaya yadabhay datta tat datta makhil maya , matto vibhanatmanan drashtu narhasi shankar , yoham sa twam jagatchedam sadevasuramanusham avidyamohitatman purusha bhinnadarshinaha ।। ( विष्णु पुराणे 5 , 33, 47-48)

    ★ Lord krishna says to lord shiva: Whatever you give a peace to this world is what i give ! O shivam, do not consider yourself different from me. What i m , The same u and all these devatas asuras, sansar along with manushyas are! The people who are deluded by avidya ( maya) , only those consider a difference between u and me! ★
    इति श्री विष्णु पुराणे \


    ।।Vishnoranya tu pashyanti ye ma bramhananeva va, kutarko matayo mudhaha pachyante naraken vaghah , ye cha mudha duratmano binnam pashyanti mam hare bramhan cha tatah tasmat bramha hatya sama twagham. ।।

    ★ Lord shiva says: Those people who consider myself and bramha different from vishnu, they evil witted stupid people fall in hell and suffer sorrow.
    Similarly, Those who see bramha, vishnu and myself different, they incure a sin same as ' bramhahatya ' ★
    इति भविष्योत्तर पुराण ।


    Dhanyavad - Ram krishna hari
    Hari On!

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    Re: Adi shankara Posts - Jalpa Thread 2

    Pranam

    Quote Originally Posted by Omkara View Post
    Certainly he regards Lord Vishnu as Saguna Brahman only, supreme at a vyavharika level. No one disputed that.
    That is not in dispute, what is on dispute is our integrity of intention, you either omit certain fact or add something that was never there we can go on but it will get us no where.

    Some of the opinions I expressed in that thread have undergone revision in light of new evidence.
    I was mislead by malicious misinterpretation by some Neo-Advaitins of Shankara's Vishnu Sahasranama Bhashya. He has not upheld Shiva=Vishnu in that bhashya.
    That is very noble of you to admit, now that we can't reconcile our opinion we will blame the neo -Advaitin or who ever, that is fine one has a right to change opinion, problem is who is to say we want change our opinion in due course of time, we might even admit (but I doubt it) that Bhutas he comments on Gita as Vinayakas is not really Ganesha, the debate or the arguments that stem from, that would be too much to ask, that would put us back on course.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  5. Re: Adi shankara Posts - Jalpa Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by hinduism♥krishna View Post
    Namaste, omkar.

    Adi shankara stated shri vishnu is shiva and shiva is vishnu in his vishnu sahasranamam bhashya.

    Here are verses from adi shankara's bhashya :

    ।। " twaya yadabhay datta tat datta makhil maya , matto vibhanatmanan drashtu narhasi shankar , yoham sa twam jagatchedam sadevasuramanusham avidyamohitatman purusha bhinnadarshinaha ।। ( विष्णु पुराणे 5 , 33, 47-48)

    ★ Lord krishna says to lord shiva: Whatever you give a peace to this world is what i give ! O shivam, do not consider yourself different from me. What i m , The same u and all these devatas asuras, sansar along with manushyas are! The people who are deluded by avidya ( maya) , only those consider a difference between u and me! ★
    इति श्री विष्णु पुराणे \


    ।।Vishnoranya tu pashyanti ye ma bramhananeva va, kutarko matayo mudhaha pachyante naraken vaghah , ye cha mudha duratmano binnam pashyanti mam hare bramhan cha tatah tasmat bramha hatya sama twagham. ।।

    ★ Lord shiva says: Those people who consider myself and bramha different from vishnu, they evil witted stupid people fall in hell and suffer sorrow.
    Similarly, Those who see bramha, vishnu and myself different, they incure a sin same as ' bramhahatya ' ★
    इति भविष्योत्तर पुराण ।


    Dhanyavad - Ram krishna hari
    These quotes do occur, but have been taken out of context.

    Shankaracharya does not say, "Hence, one should worship Shiva, Brahma, and Vishnu equally" after quoting these. The context is that Vishnu is Vishva - the universe, and is non-different from him, in the sense that the Universe is his vibhUti. I hope members who can understand this subtlety will appreciate this.

    One needs to think how Shankaracharya quotes one verse that seems to say "Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva are equal" and then in many places in Prasthanatrayi-Vishnu Sahasranama Bhashyas he says Brahma is a jIva, subject to transmigration, and obtained the position of Brahma through the grace of the Supreme Lord Narayana.
    Last edited by bhagavatafan; 14 October 2013 at 12:45 AM.

  6. #76

    Re: Adi shankara Posts - Jalpa Thread 2

    bumping the thread, very interesting thread. Adi Shankara outright rejected the Rudra Upasana and he referred in his Brahma sutra bhasyams, wherever the tattvam needs to be decided, he used only 3 names 'Vishnu' ,'Vasudeva' , 'Narayana' , interestingly in the entire vedic literature, these 3 mantras(with om and namaha) are called vyapaka mantras. In these 3 mantras, the vyapaka mantram, the 'Narayana' mantram is the supreme of all which is called astakshari. One needs to visit Pillai Lokacharya Swamy (Ramanuja Sampradayam Lineage) astadasa rahasyam where he explains the absolute supremeness of Narayana mantram.

    Adi Shankara is one of the great Sri Vaishnavite, he was never a saiva, this concept is a spun up concept and he referred the tattvam with Narayana only . Naryana is Sriyaathi and is husband of our mother Lakshmi devi --i.e : Vishnu.

    Krushna is the supreme brahma himself, Kannan clearly explained in Bhagawadgita that other deva worshippers will only get fruits that are limited and will soonly vanish and for those fruits also they depend on the antaryami which is Vishnu/Krushna himself.

    Rudra is son of Brahma but he Siva became one of the greatest Sri vaishnavite. In bhagawatham at the end it mentions Siva as the greatest Sri Vaishnavite, Siva also tells to Parvathi devi in Padma Purana that Narayana is supreme.

    All gods are not equal. Srimannarayana is the only father as he himself said in Bhagawadgita. Who the hell are anyone to deny this ?

    Adiyen Ramanuja Daasa

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    Re: Adi shankara Posts - Jalpa Thread 2

    Namaste,

    Quote Originally Posted by Garuda View Post
    All gods are not equal. Srimannarayana is the only father as he himself said in Bhagawadgita. Who the hell are anyone to deny this ?
    I am denying it.
    There, what are you going to do about that?

    Pranam

  8. #78

    Re: Adi shankara Posts - Jalpa Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Believer View Post
    Namaste,


    I am denying it.
    There, what are you going to do about that?

    Pranam
    you just can't maan! It is true, no one can deny the supremeness of nArayaNa.....Even Yama dharma raja said that why the ignorant people are coming to yama loka when if they chant nArayaNa name once, yama kinkaras won't touch the Jiva after the death! The power of astakshari is beyond everything. Pillai Lokacharya swamy in his astadasa rahasyas explained the power of nArayaNa mantram with Ommm and namaha. One will be astonished with the explanation as the word 'nArayaNa' and the meaning that it conveys does not exist in any language and in all the vedic texts.

    I think many people are missing the link, Rudra is the son of Brahma, He attained the name Siva after that and he became the greatest Sri Vaishnavites encompassing everyone as mentioned at the last in bhagawatham. respect Siva very much realising he is the greatest vaishnavite.

    adiyen Ramanuja Daasa

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    Re: Adi shankara Posts - Jalpa Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by bhagavatafan View Post
    Shankaracharya does not say, "Hence, one should worship Shiva, Brahma, and Vishnu equally" after quoting these.
    And neither he says "Only Vishnu should be worshipped, not Shiva" If I'm wrong you may post the references.
    The context is that Vishnu is Vishva - the universe, and is non-different from him, in the sense that the Universe is his vibhUti. I hope members who can understand this subtlety will appreciate this.
    You forgot "Vishnu is Vibhuti" listed in Bhagavad Gita. So when it is said that Vishnu is everything, it's essentially attributed to Brahman, which, of course not different from Vishnu God. When Vishnu is Shiva is already stressed, you still want make a distinction. Amazing!
    One needs to think how Shankaracharya quotes one verse that seems to say "Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva are equal" and then in many places in Prasthanatrayi-Vishnu Sahasranama Bhashyas he says Brahma is a jIva, subject to transmigration, and obtained the position of Brahma through the grace of the Supreme Lord Narayana.
    Vishnu god too is included. It's said "From Brahma to lower beings " as Brahma is first born.
    Hari On!

  10. #80

    Re: Adi shankara Posts - Jalpa Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by hinduism♥krishna View Post
    And neither he says "Only Vishnu should be worshipped, not Shiva" If I'm wrong you may post the references. You forgot "Vishnu is Vibhuti" listed in Bhagavad Gita. So when it is said that Vishnu is everything, it's essentially attributed to Brahman, which, of course not different from Vishnu God. When Vishnu is Shiva is already stressed, you still want make a distinction. Amazing! Vishnu god too is included. It's said "From Brahma to lower beings " as Brahma is first born.
    although you were replying to bhagavatafan user, Vishnu is not our self. SRI Krushna clearly said in the 2nd adhyaya of BG that Jiva and Prakriti is different from him and between each Jiva differences are there based on karma not on the suddha Jivas though! if jiva==paramaatma, all jivas are same and the pain experienced by one jiva should be shared by other jivas as well as all jivas would be equal at that point.

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