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Thread: A bit more light...

  1. #1
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    A bit more light...

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namaste
    I thought to just add a few ideas for one's consideration... these will be odds-and-ends that are notions one may consider or be told of within the body of one's study. I thought to start with 3 of them.
    • the body or śarīra
    • illusion or māyā ( not maya)
    • being on the path (mārga)

    • the body or śarīra
    For one new to the unfoldment of Self (ātmā) it is not uncommon to hear you are not the body. This is true. You are not just the body. In the final analysis your real Self is all encompassing. Yet we start with the notion of saying you are not the body from the POV of limitations. The body is of limits. But when you come to the full realization of one's stainless Self, this Self is all inclusive. Adding this notion that you are not only the body adds depth and breath to one's comprehension. Yet to try and start here perhaps causes some consternation. So the wise chose to teach in a simpler method - step by step.
    • illusion or māyā ( not maya�)
    It is quite in vogue to hold this idea in one's mind. The world is an illusion it is not real. This is not the whole story. That is, we do not see ( in the state of ignorance) the full scope of what creation is. Since we do not see properly one can say the world is illusive. No different the an iceberg. We see only the tip of it and the massive portion lies below the surface.
    So what is the illusion for us ? We see things as everything being disconnected, independent. While this 'seems' to be the experience there is unity within all of creation. We can say this even without going into the spiritual domain.
    If we look all around we see many-many objects. Yet click down a level and all are made of atoms; click down again and we find particles and sub-atomic particles. Click one more time and we see pure energy from which all this creation comes and goes. So there is commonality even by using the laws of physics. Yet there is still one more click. For all this to exist there must be the space for all to exist in. This is one more common denominator. But yet another click ; even for this space to exist it too must be. Be-ing ties every thing together. On all levels - what can possibly exist without Being ? It is eternal, non-born and does not die.
    So, at the ignorance level this is not a common experience; yet as one becomes more refined the connection becomes more astute in one's comprehension.
    • being on the path (mārga�)
    This too is often spoken of from the spiritual aspirant. I ask you this: where can there be travel if the beginning and end do not exist ? That is, the Self (ātmā) is without break or pause. There is no starting point or ending point. Some call this satatoditam, without break or pause. This Self is uninterrupted; so at every point it exists already. It is as if one is looking for a glass of water while submerged in a lake.

    Rāmaṇa mahaṛṣi has said it this way: there is no greater mystery then this - ourSelves being Reality, we seek to gain reality.

    What more can we bring a bit more light to ?

    • grace or anugraha
    • i or I ? - the idea of 'me' of the relative word (and differentiated awareness ) and that of 'I' a more non-differentiated (whole) view
      Who is this 'i' ?
    We can consider these in an upcoming post.

    iti śiva

    words
    • śarīra - " that which is easily destroyed i.e. the body , bodily frame
    • mārga or journey, seeking , search , tracing out , hunting ; some may call it patha - path , road , course ; some may call
    • maya - in the masculine gender is the name of an asura ; in the feminine gender it can be a camel, horse or a mule.
    Last edited by yajvan; 30 October 2013 at 02:39 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #2
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    Re: A bit more light...

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namaste

    i or I ? - the idea of 'me' of the relative word (and differentiated awareness ) and that of 'I' a more non-differentiated (whole) view
    Who is this 'i' ?
    The notion of 'i' is a most confounding thing. If I say I am going to the store, I am having fun, I am sad, I am happy. Who is this I ? If I say I am śiva do we think śiva needs to be reminded who He is ?

    This 'I' can be traced back to a thought. And we know thoughts come and go. So if we tie 'I' to thoughts does it suggest it too comes and goes ? Most will say no; yet I submit to you , where does this 'I' go in deep sleep ? On no longer has this body-consciousness of I am here sleeping, let alone I am even here!

    Now , one must ask yajvan why did you write 'i' and 'I' ? Some use the convention of small 'i' for that individual that is tightly coupled to the body śarīra . I say tightly coupled because that is the crux of the problem. We are so tightly connected to the body we think without doubt it is the real 'me'. So in this case many use the notion
    of small 'i'. But if it is the real 'you' then 'you' comes and goes - from activity to no activity in sleep.

    We are so tightly connected to the body it is like the husk that is on rice - so connected to it seems as it is the one-and-the-same rice, yet it is not.

    This is the pickle - this 'i' is none other then the ego. It is the Divine no less but in a very limited form. Its as if a full 10,000 mega-watt power station has been contained to a small 3 volt alkaline battery.

    So, most often when people do things they are really saying 'i' am going to the store, going to the movies; 'i' am happy or sad, 'i' am a father, mother, student, all that containment in the perview of this contained and limited 'i' .

    And to confuse the student on another level sometimes this capital 'I' is used to suggest the one that finally recognizes they are not this 'i' but of a whole and infinite nature, so they write 'I'. But this 'I' also gives the notion of individuality no? Hence the confusion.
    If used in its wholeness this 'I' is pūrṇatā ( fullness). Not only am I 'I' but I am everything, the wholeness of all; I am Being, full, without break or pause. But when you look at me I look no different then 'i'. But 'my' internal experience is without boundaries . I do not see a limited 'me' , but the Self that is the extension of all.
    This is the awakening for aspirant that is the practitioner (vyavasāyin) , that of bhūman - the aggregate of all existing things; abundance , plenty , wealth , opulence, fullness.

    iti śiva

    words
    • the body or śarīra is 'that which is easily destroyed' i.e. the body , bodily frame
    • vyavasāyin - one who acts resolutely or energetically
    Last edited by yajvan; 30 October 2013 at 02:40 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #3
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    Re: A bit more light...

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namaste

    So, most often when people do things they are really saying 'i' am going to the store, going to the movies; 'i' am happy or sad, 'i' am a father, mother, student, all that containment in the perview of this contained and limited 'i' .

    When we think of 'i' then and who we are or are not - a reasonable consideration then is neti neti ( not this not this). Even though 'i' may go to the store, to the movies, to work , to school, this 'i' is not the Full (pūrṇatā) me that I am.

    Due to the limits of my ~current~ vision 'i' and missing the totality of who 'i' really am. This does not suggest that I am any less - it is just that I need to re-recognize my original status. It is as if I am a king but when born I was raised by common people in the village. I have been ~conditioned~ over time to be the commoner. I have yet to awaken to the knowledge that I am king of the land. I am no less the king and with the proper re-recognition I will once again regain my birth status of king.


    iti śiva

    words
    • neti neti comes from 'na iti' not thus, or not this . We find this neti neti in a few places most notably in the bṛhadāraṇyaka upaniṣad chapter 8 (8th adhyāya )
      • We also find it in the avadhūta gītā ( composed by dattātreya-ji) ; it says the following:
        • tattvamasyādivākyena svātmā hi pratipāditaḥ|
          neti neti śrutirbrūyādanṛtaṁ pācabhautikam || 25
          By such verses as 'that thou art' our own Self (svātmā) is affirmed.
          Of that which is untrue and composed of the five elements - the śruti (scripture) says, not this, not this ( neti neti)
    Last edited by yajvan; 30 October 2013 at 02:43 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  4. #4
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    Re: A bit more light...

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namast

    grace or anugraha

    Many an aspirant asks for grace from the Supreme or from the guru who in which are one and the same.
    That in and of itself is grace. Some do not have this uplifted teacher ( guru) but I submit to you this grace still comes.

    Many look for this grace as some flash, or spiritual experience. This may be true, yet it comes in simpler ways ( as I have found out ). A simple insight that was not apparent before, but dawns and uplifts one's understanding is grace. A change in behavior that is more aligned with natural law is grace. A kind hand from another. The tenacity to keep one-pointed is grace; to do one's study with delight is grace.

    The sky does not have to open up and have a hand extend down for one to find grace on this good earth.

    iti śiva
    Last edited by yajvan; 30 September 2013 at 10:18 AM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  5. #5
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    Re: A bit more light...

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namast

    rāmaṇa mahaṛṣi informs us that the 'rising of the mind is called birth'. So long as the body is considered there is birth ( of the physical form or the body i.e. śarīra ) but the body is not 'I'.

    This I find quite interesting as 'birth' of the mind comes to us upon waking from a deep slumber. In deep sleep there is no mind, but upon awaking, this mind once again comes into existence. We can call this a birth. Yet there too is another view.


    If we look to the bhāgavad gītā, chapter 6 and the 45th verse, kṛṣṇa-ji informs us for the yogī who practices with zeal (prayatna), purified of all sin and perfected through many births therefore reaches the highest (parā) place or station (gati).

    This is most interesting... for a keen mind one would see three views offered by the wise regarding birth:
    • it can mean via a new body
    • it can mean via awakening from a deep slumber
    • it can mean coming out from samādhi
    With samādhi one has given up all i.e. has transcended all of relative creation and resides within one's own Being; hence the notion of a new birth from this experience one gains additional purity within the nervous system, body and mind. One is anew. Thus when one continues this practice day-in-and day-out ,it is akin to practicing with zeal (prayatna). Many 'births' then occur with this practice day-by-day and one therefore reaches this highest (parā).

    The wise say withdraw, then withdraw from the withdrawal. That is, go within ( withdraw) and experience this samādhi then come back out ( withdraw from the withdrawal) within the world of action. This hones one's overcall composure and brings purity or śuddha. The bhāgavad gītā, chapter 6, 45th verse calls it saṃśuddha or completely purified or cleansed. But cleansed of what ? All that is non-Self. This is the true re-birth the seers discuss.

    iti śiva

    words
    prayatna - persevering effort , continued exertion or endeavor , with special effort , zealously , diligently
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #6

    Re: A bit more light...

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    it can mean via a new body
    • it can mean via awakening from a deep slumber
    • it can mean coming out from samādhi
    With samādhi one has given up all i.e. has transcended all of relative creation and resides within one's own Being; hence the notion of a new birth from this experience one gains additional purity within the nervous system, body and mind. One is anew. Thus when one continues this practice day-in-and day-out ,it is akin to practicing with zeal (prayatna). Many 'births' then occur with this practice day-by-day and one therefore reaches this highest (parā).

    The wise say withdraw, then withdraw from the withdrawal. That is, go within ( withdraw) and experience this samādhi then come back out ( withdraw from the withdrawal) within the world of action. This hones one's overcall composure and brings purity or śuddha. The bhāgavad gītā, chapter 6, 45th verse calls it saṃśuddha or completely purified or cleansed. But cleansed of what ? All that is non-Self. This is the true re-birth the seers discuss.

    iti śiva
    praNAm

    Despite all phrases like "twice-born" "re-born" "dvija" etc. to show this concept is there, I never thought of the shloka Gita 6.45 in this light.

    This is very interesting, and makes complete sense. Thanks.

    _/\_
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

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    Re: A bit more light...

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namast

    This is most interesting... for a keen mind one would see three views offered by the wise regarding birth:
    • it can mean via a new body
    • it can mean via awakening from a deep slumber
    • it can mean coming out from samādhi
    Now my question:
    How do we reconcile 'birth' when we are informed in the bhāgavad gītā, chapter 2, 12th śloka where kṛṣṇa-ji says the following:
    there never was a time when I was not, nor you, nor these rulers
    of men. Nor will there ever be a time when all of us shall cease to be.


    If there never was a time when I was not, then there never was a birth. How to comprehend this ?

    iti śiva
    Last edited by yajvan; 30 September 2013 at 01:36 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  8. #8
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    Re: A bit more light...

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namast


    For the re-recognition of Self I note the following...

    I count no less then 16 to 18 schools ( darśana-s); I count no less then 112 upāya-s ( ~ techniques~); I am informed in the mālinīvijayottara tantra that there are no less then 35 million mantra-s appointed by śiva (some say 70 million). Why so many approaches ?

    We are dealing with ātma-vidya ( knowledge of the Self or svātman) and all the possible conditions of the human. Yet in terms of simplicity we can say the human condition exists on 3 levels:
    • completely unripe ( one does not even know they do not know)
    • ripening - an introduction to the Self and to the upliftment of the Self by the Self has begun
    • ripe - the individual is ready; it is now the time for 'the final piercing' as the wise call it.
    But what is all this for ? It is all to do one thing - be without the 3 guna-s. Just this one thing is all that is required, yet there are so many ways to get to this because so many people reside at different 'stations' in their development.

    So, if one asks, if I am without the 3 guna-s then where am I at ? We will look at this in the next post.

    iti śiva

    words

    • darśana - we use the term as 'schools' but the word is defined as seeing , observing , looking , noticing , observation , perception ; inspecting and examination.
    • 112 upāya-s called out the in the śivavijānopaniad
    • be without the 3 guna-s - found as the instruction in the bhāgavad gītā, chapter 2, 45th śloka , kṛṣṇa-ji says 'be without the 3 guna-s , freed from duality… possessed of ( or established in) the SELF (ātmavān)'.
    • abhyāsa - the effort of the mind to remain in its unmodified condition of purity (sattva).; repeated or permanent exercise , discipline , use , habit , custom
    Last edited by yajvan; 01 October 2013 at 08:49 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  9. #9
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    Re: A bit more light...

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namast

    So, if one asks, if I am without the 3 guna-s then where am I at ?

    If we look at the human day it falls within the experience of wake, dream and sleep. These 3 ~modes~ go on day-in and day-out. It is the playground for the 3 guna-s , to frolic within this area, of the ego, of 'me-ness' , of (perceived) individuality. And for the most part those on this good earth have come to think this is it - these 3 modes is where life takes place - wake, dream & sleep.

    The wise tell us more. They inform us that there is a substratum to these 3 modes ( of wake , dream and sleep). There is a 4th called turiya. This 4th is the foundation for the other 3 modes. Just like a motion picture screen is the foundation for the movie that plays on it. One sees all the motion on the screen , but the screen allows all of the picture's motion to take place. In simplistic terms this turiya ( some spell turīya) is like that.
    And the wise tell us there is something beyond turīya called turyātīta. This is well advanced of what needs to be addressed in this folder 'New to Sanatana Dharma' so we will leave this notion for other folders.

    Now to answer the question if one is without the 3 guna-s then one is beginning to entertain this turīya. If there is interest it is reviewed in several śāstra-s : śiva sūtra-s, maṇḍūka upaniṣad, and the śrīmad bhāgavatam. Yet if I may, let me offer how it is described in the mālinīvijayottara tantra (aforementioned in the above post); it says:

    turya -the fourth state of consciousness-- (turyam) is said to be (udāhtam) truly (samyk) pracaya (literally) the mass-
    (pracayam) and (ca) rūpātītam -the state beyond rūpastha or deep sleep- (rūp-atītam). The wise (vicakaā) wish (to attain) (icchanti) mahāpracaya the Great Mass, the great fullness, totality -(mahāpracayam) (also known as) turyātīta - lit. beyond the fourth - (turya-atītam) ||38

    When one goes beyond the 'me-ness' , the smallness of individuality, they come to visit this turīya. Yet visiting suggests one goes some where, this is false - it is here all the time, we just are too busy being distracted by other things.

    iti śiva
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  10. #10
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    Re: A bit more light...

    Namaste, Yajvan.

    Very thought-provoking thread.

    How I see it, is that there's a huge difference between personal identification and attachment.

    I can say; "I am typing these words" and for all intents and purposes 'I' am.

    It's 'my' brain and 'my' fingers and yes, I am also aware of the 'my' that 'owns' these parts.

    That isn't typing these words, however.

    Sometimes "I" do get a bit annoyed about people who say "who is this "I" that "you" are referring to?"

    According to the literal definition:

    "I - to refer to oneself as a speaker or writer"

    How can one say "I am Brahman" when one is still referring to themselves as being Brahman? It is still duality which ever way you want to look at it.

    "I" can still say - "I am going to the movies" or "I am going to the store" or "I am happy/sad" because that's how the world relates to us and how we all relate to our world.

    I mean, I could go to the whole extent of saying; "this temporary body (sharira), which is nothing more than an illusion that houses the Atma/Soul until the nature of such is realised is going for a walk to the store"...but that's too much of a mouthful.

    So, I just say "I am going to the store" fully realising it's only the physical body and mind going there.

    I can 'identify' with my body and I have had to do this, as a part of loving who I am as a whole person! I hated my physical appearance before I started to love Lord Shiva. Now, I can 'accept' myself. This doesn't mean I am attached or vain about any of it. I am just more 'comfortable within my own skin' now.

    I realise it's all an illusion, the body...the world...yet this body is forced to exist in this world - both being the same part of that illusory nature. The Soul is only 'witness' to it.

    Aum Namah Shivaya

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