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Thread: A little help please

  1. #1

    A little help please

    Pranams,

    I am posting this to look for any authority on this issue. It seems that it has become a subject of controversy, perhaps leading to something better in understanding. I always feel that Sri Chaitanya was a unifying teacher between sampradyas, some wont accept, not to worry about them.

    I will copy something and if anyone can add something to these questions then it would be a nice personal study for me.

    Copy and Paste

    I have a few literary questions for some research work we are doing that I hope someone here may be able to help with:
    1) Does anyone know how many commentaries have been composed on Śrīmad Bhāgavatam? Or on Viṣṇu Purāṇa? Does anyone know of any commentaries on any other Purāṇas other than Bhāgavata and Viṣṇu?
    2) Does anyone know of any definitions from any ācāryas on the meaning of "pāṣaṇḍa-tā", or "pāṣaṇḍin"?
    3) Satyanarayana Das ji sometimes defines "acintya" as "śāstra eka-gamya". Does anyone know where this statement comes from?
    4) Does anyone know the date when Sanatan Goswami composed Brhād Bhāgavatāmṛta?
    5) Does anyone know anything about any mayavada literature written by Sarvabhauma after he met Mahaprabhu?
    There are a group of Russian speaking persons who have taken to the line of Srila Madhvacarya who are arguing that Sarvabhauma Bhattacharya was –not- converted to Vaishnavism by Mahaprabhu. They say that 6 years later after this “supposed conversion” (in 1510) that Sarvabhauma wrote a book (which they didn’t give the title for) that supposedly espoused the Mayavada philosophy. For any Russian reading readers here is the link they give to support their claim that Sarvabhauma remained a Mayavadi after meeting with Mahaprabhu:
    http://ashvattho.blogspot.com
    It’s interesting that they say this book was written by Sarvabhauma during the reign of the Gajapati King Vidyadhara. All the evidence I’ve found in this regard [See * below] shows that Vidyadhara’s rule was not until 1541, thirty-one years after the meeting with Mahaprabhu. Did Sarvabhauma even live that long?
    If anyone knows anything about this supposed book, I would be very grateful for some information.
    NOTES:
    * See: H. Kulke “Jagannatha as the State Deity Under the Gajapatis of Orissa”, page 208 in the book, “The Cult of Jagannath and the Regional Tradition of Orissa”. Manohar Publications. New Delhi. 1986.
    * Also in Dr. Naveen Kumar Sahu, “The Imperial Ganga and the Gajapati Rule in Orissa”, page 178 in the book, “Cultural Heritage of Odisha Vol. XII”. Fakir Mohan Smruti Sansad. Bhubaneswar. 2010.


    Ys


    Md

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    Re: A little help please

    Namaste markandeya prabhu ji,

    > 1) Does anyone know how many commentaries have been composed on Śrīmad Bhāgavatam?

    More than 80 commentaries in Sanskrit survive from a variety of sāmpradayas or traditions, including the Advaita, Śrī Vaiṣṇava, Brahmā Vaiṣṇava, Rudra Vaiṣṇava, and Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava sāmpradayas. The traditions of a few of the commentaries are disputed. Regrettably, invaders seem to have destroyed the Bhāgavata-rahasyam (not to be confused with other works of the same name) of Śrī Nimbārkācārya.

    praṇām
    śrīmate nārāyaṇāya namaḥ

  3. #3

    Re: A little help please

    Pranams anucarh Prabhu ji,

    Thank you, do you know of any source that will list all the 80+ commentaries Śrīmad Bhāgavatam.

    And would you or any other member be OK if I shared some information that is being given in this thread on the discussion held else where, I will treat all information provided with the utmost respect.

    I think it might be better for me to add my purpose for bringing this into question and why I ask for help on this subject, if it goes according to my questioning I might even be brave enough to say why I am asking, firstly I am simple person, not so much into controversy or scholarly dissection and debates, unless it brings into the discussion unity, which awakens the true conscious experience, I am looking for a synthesis to bridge the gap between the schools, I have no intention to divide but to make a stronger and clearer definition on the mood and purpose of Sri Krishna Chaitanya MahaPrabhu, whom I consider was linking the teachers for pure union, unity in diversity may have far reaching meanings and may end the dogmatic misunderstandings that have crept in along way, and as you say anucarch Ji mostly by foreign invasion, but how far are we going to go back in history to see where that external influence of these Siddantas actually first arrived withi8n the teachings of Hinduism or the teachings of bharata varsha. I have no problem with controversy as long as the ending result, even for myself makes this gap and hostility reduced, even if it is only for my own understanding.

    One factor that I have tried to get across ( not here ), but to no avail, especially within mainstream practitioners of any given particular school is that Acharyas of respective teachings Sri Madhava, Sri Adi Shankara, Sri Buddha, Sri Ramanujan, Sri Nimbarka is that they are not dogmatic, but rather design a teaching for the conditions of the conditioned Jiva, They may not actually be so attached to their own teachings, or even believe in them in they way we can sometimes isolate the teachings as being separate from one another, I will add a video, its Buddhist but at the point 7.05 I consider He destroys with kindness and awareness this notion of being to dogmatic in religion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmNx5hAREok. I have to be careful what I say at times. So the valid teachers of the sacred Dharma have a lot of scope for expression, why this is needed and not only one religion with just one teaching is not spoken by them, well we only have to look at what happened to Christianity after it arrived at the feet of Constantine and imprisonment of Sri Jesus was then expressed, with devastating results.

    Also I would like positive comments from advaitists about how they feel about they terms mayavadi, is not each school, even so called persona-lists teaching about maya, is not the correct meaning of maya ( illusory potency ) and Vada ( conclusion or teaching) not present in all the teachings of the Acharyas, Even Srila Prabhupada and other Acharyas of Sri Gaudiya Vaishnavism teaching about maya....

    So this then brings into the context my question about the so called conversion of Sr Sarvabhauma Acharya, even if say there was a conversion, this could have happened at a very subtle level, not visible to the ordinary mind and would therefore not really be a need for him for him to change his dress or his studied and preached doctrine. This then can bring in a misunderstanding judging him by externals and sectarian denomination.

    I have spoke like this for a long time, I have even been kicked out of temples and branded an offender and impersonalist, I am never aggressive in this subject, nor preachy. So perhaps this subject can bring some illumination on the mind of the sadhu, something I am desperately trying to study and understand. It feels sometimes the more I feel I am getting closer the more lonely I become.....

    Ys

    Md
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 13 November 2014 at 03:08 AM.

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    Re: A little help please

    Namaste

    Quote Originally Posted by markandeya 108 dasa
    1) Does anyone know how many commentaries have been composed on Śrīmad Bhāgavatam? Or on Viṣṇu Purāṇa? Does anyone know of any commentaries on any other Purāṇas other than Bhāgavata and Viṣṇu?

    Thank you, do you know of any source that will list all the 80+ commentaries Śrīmad Bhāgavatam.

    And would you or any other member be OK if I shared some information that is being given in this thread on the discussion held else where, I will treat all information provided with the utmost respect.
    Feel free and share any info.
    I don't have any specific info about Vishnu Purana and other Puranas, but it's sure that Bhagavatam has the unique and very much special place and status among the Puranas. Srimad Bhagavatam is considered to be one of the most respected Puranas in the history of Hinduism. Even in other Puranas we do find statements that celebrate Bhagavatam as a Purana of the highest regard. Historically speaking no other Purana has left such a great impact on Hindu thought as Bhagavatam did. This can be easily seen from the fact that of all the Puranas Bhagavatam has the largest number of commentaries. It is the only Purana that has attracted a host of commentators through the centuries belonging to all schools of vaishnavas whereas most of the other Puranas have produced no traditional commentaries at all, and others only one or two.
    Bhagavatam has more than 80 commentaries in Sanskrit alone that are extant, and there were others that are no longer extant. It has been translated into almost all the languages of India, and it was the first Purana to be translated into a European language, French in the 19th century.
    Keep in mind that in modern times the authors wrote commentaries in languages such as English, for example Srila Prabhupada -- A. C. Bhaktivedanta Svami, so that the number of existing commentaries on the Bhagavatam today is even greater.

    Even on the Wikipedia you have an article on commentaries: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagava...a#Commentaries

    Here are some other sources of information, but no one gives a list of all commentaries:
    http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/encyclopedia/spbooks.htm
    http://www.indiadivine.org/content/t...he-bhagavatam/

    A Gaudiya vaishnava acarya Visvanatha Chakravarti Thakura's commentaries on the Bhagavatam (17th century), translated: http://store.krishna.com/Search.bok?...hp_media-books

    See also at https://archive.org/ where you have Search engine, just type in "Bhagavatam" or "Bhagavata" and select "Texts" in the "All Media Types" field.

    Quote Originally Posted by markandeya 108 dasa
    2) Does anyone know of any definitions from any ācāryas on the meaning of "pāṣaṇḍa-tā", or "pāṣaṇḍin"?
    This word Vaishnava acaryas have explained as it's explained in the Sanskrit dictionary as "a heretic , hypocrite , impostor , any one who falsely assumes the characteristics of an orthodox Hindu , a jaina , Buddhist ib. &c", or "false doctrine , heresy".
    See how Srila Prabhupada translated and explained the word in his translations of the Bhagavatam verses and purports 4.19.12, 4.19.22, 4.2.28, and also Caitanya-caritamrta Adi 3.73.

    You have that word applied in the verse:

    yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devaṁ
    brahma-rudrādi-daivataiḥ
    samatvenaiva vīkṣeta
    sa pāṣaṇḍī bhaved dhruvam

    yaḥ -- any person who; tu -- however; nārāyaṇam -- the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the master of such demigods as Brahmā and Śiva; devam -- the Lord; brahma -- Lord Brahmā; rudra -- Lord Śiva; ādi -- and others; daivataiḥ -- with such demigods; samatvena -- on an equal level; eva -- certainly; vīkṣeta -- observes; saḥ -- such a person; pāṣaṇḍī -- pāsaṇḍī; bhavet -- must be; dhruvam -- certainly.

    "A person who considers demigods like Brahmā and Śiva to be on an equal level with Nārāyaṇa is to be considered an offender, or pāṣaṇḍī." (Padma Purana)

    Here in this verse the word pāṣaṇḍī is applied, and means "atheist, a heretic". See Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 18.115-116 at vedabase.
    Note: This is a verse from the Padma Purana quoted by early Gaudiya Vaishnava acaryas in the 16th century such as Sanatana Gosvami in his Hari-bhakti-vilāsa.

    Here is an excerpt from one of Srila Prabhupada's lessons:

    Pāṣaṇḍī means nonfaithful, unfaithful, unbeliever.
    Lecture on BG 9.23-24 -- New York, December 10, 1966:

    So Lord Śiva and Lord Brahmā are considered to be the most powerful demigods, but still, it is prohibited that one should not think of them as equal to the Supreme Lord. It is strictly prohibited in Vaiṣṇava Purāṇas. It is said like this: yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devam ...

    yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devaṁ
    brahma-rudrādi-daivataiḥ
    samatvenaiva vīkṣeta
    sa pāṣaṇḍī bhaved dhruvam
    (Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 18.115 and 116)

    "Any person who keeps on the same level demigods like Brahmā-Rudra" -- that means Brahmā and Lord Śiva -- "with Nārāyaṇa" -- Nārāyaṇa is the Supreme Lord -- yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devaṁ brahma-rudrādi-daivataiḥ ... They are very big, big demigods, but even they cannot be placed on the equal level of Nārāyaṇa, the Supreme Lord. Yas tu samatvena vīkṣeta: Anyone says that "To me everyone is the same, he is pāṣaṇḍī." He is pāṣaṇḍī means nonfaithful, unfaithful, unbeliever.



    regards

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    Re: A little help please

    Namaste markandeya prabhu ji,

    > Thank you, do you know of any source that will list all the 80+ commentaries Śrīmad Bhāgavatam.

    I haven't yet found a complete list of the commentaries. The most comprehensive list I've seen is that in the Wikipedia article on the Bhāgavata Purāṇa mentioned by brahma jijnasa ji (Good find!). It lists 20 commentaries, as you can see. This list appears to be accurate, however, it includes a commentary from the 20th century.

    The title it gives for the famous and fascinating commentary of Śrīdhara Svāmin is "Sridhariyam" [sic], but the commentary is most often referred to as the Bhāvārtha-bodhinī. This work might interest you, because it has been praised by both Advaitins and by Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas, beginning with Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who taught that it was unequaled as a commentary on the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam. Śrī Jīva Gosvāmī and later Śrī Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa argued that the apparent Advaita passages in Śrīdhara's commentary were intended as a means to draw Advaitins to Vaiṣṇavism. Although Śrīdhara Svāmin is widely thought to have been an Advaitin by modern scholars, his interpretations of the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam do not seem to have been consistently Advaitin. Some modern scholars have argued that his views were actually closer to Bhedābheda (Difference in Non-difference) or Viśiṣṭādvaita (Qualified Nondualism or Nondualism of the Qualified Whole). (See Hindu Theology in Early Modern South Asia by Kiyokazu Okita.)

    > And would you or any other member be OK if I shared some information that is being given in this thread on the discussion held else where...

    Certainly. Feel free to share it.

    > ...I am looking for a synthesis to bridge the gap between the schools, I have no intention to divide but to make a stronger and clearer definition on the mood and purpose
    > of Sri Krishna Chaitanya MahaPrabhu, whom I consider was linking the teachers for pure union...

    That sounds like a noble undertaking. And the Acintya-bhedābheda (Inconceivable Difference in Non-difference) philosophy taught by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as articulated by his foremost immediate disciples, does seem to have a lot in common with several other branches of Vedānta. Please share any discoveries you make.

    praṇām
    Last edited by anucarh; 15 November 2014 at 12:30 AM. Reason: to translate a term; fix a typo
    śrīmate nārāyaṇāya namaḥ

  6. #6

    Re: A little help please

    Pranams anucarh and brahma jijnasa Prabhu Ji's,

    Thank you both for your contributions, you have given me information and sources for further research and study.

    Sadly I have left that debate and stopped following it, I did not take part, it followed it's usual natural course.....

    Ys

    Md

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    Re: A little help please

    Quote Originally Posted by markandeya 108 dasa View Post

    One factor that I have tried to get across ( not here ), but to no avail, especially within mainstream practitioners of any given particular school is that Acharyas of respective teachings Sri Madhava, Sri Adi Shankara, Sri Buddha, Sri Ramanujan, Sri Nimbarka is that they are not dogmatic, but rather design a teaching for the conditions of the conditioned Jiva, They may not actually be so attached to their own teachings, or even believe in them in they way we can sometimes isolate the teachings as being separate from one another, I will add a video, its Buddhist but at the point 7.05 I consider He destroys with kindness and awareness this notion of being to dogmatic in religion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmNx5hAREok. I have to be careful what I say at times. So the valid teachers of the sacred Dharma have a lot of scope for expression, why this is needed and not only one religion with just one teaching is not spoken by them, well we only have to look at what happened to Christianity after it arrived at the feet of Constantine and imprisonment of Sri Jesus was then expressed, with devastating results.
    Namaste,

    I too feel the same. As you progress in spirituality, negative emotions and feelings fade away. From Advaita POV, only peace and Bliss remain. When one moves outside maya, then this state cannot be separately experienced, but when mind transcend down, it tries to retain that bliss and peace and so we have a feeling of peace and bliss through the day.

    Acharya-s live and instruct according to the situation and customs prevailing at that time.

    It is possible that at that time, most advaitins would have been corrupt. It is against them that the acharya-s must have spoken.

    As one progresses, even the philosophies do not matter much. when one is fully surrendered to Krishna or Siva, you are not aware of your own body! In the same way, when mind is stuck in heart )source, Brahman), then too thoughts do not affect you, everything is inside you and you are pure consciousness. Here too body is neglected. but to establish the faith, they have to write scholarly commentaries. It is the lesser evolved disciples who create mess. I personally feel that a Guru is even beyond sampradAya-s. Kanchi Paramacharya also says that same. He says that a Saint can initiate on into his own sampradaya or ISTa devata i.e. a Rama bhakta will give initiation of Rama Nama to devotees, a Yogi will activate Kundalini while an advaitin will initiate one into Self Enquiry, but a Guru can initiate anyone in any path, as he has reached the pinnacle of truth. All paths finally merge in one. So a Guru can initiate one into dviata sadhana, another into yoga adn yet another into advaita

    Also I would like positive comments from advaitists about how they feel about they terms mayavadi, is not each school, even so called persona-lists teaching about maya, is not the correct meaning of maya ( illusory potency ) and Vada ( conclusion or teaching) not present in all the teachings of the Acharyas, Even Srila Prabhupada and other Acharyas of Sri Gaudiya Vaishnavism teaching about maya....
    Mayavad was the word used to Vacaspati Mishra in his Brahmasutra sub-commentary called Bhamati. But it was used in derogatory sense by non-advaitins and so advaitins do not like themselves being referred to as 'mayavadis'.

    mAyA means 'that which does not exists', yet it is experienced hence it is not completely true.

    The thing is, spiritual teachings are far far different from polemical debates. If possible please read, Yoga, Enlightenment and Perfection of Sri Abhinava Vidyatirtha Mahaswami (AV), Guru of current Sringeri Shankaracharya.
    1. Lord Shiva himself taught Hatha Yoga and some kriyas in a series of 7 consecutive dreams
    2. Amba gave her knowledge of chakras, kundalini and Nadis like ida, pingala, etc. He could even hear the voice saying that this is anahat chakra
    3. when he was meditating on Narasimh Upasana, he got so much intimate to him that he experienced that every thing is an offering to Narasimha like bathing, etc actually goes to him only.
    4. when he experienced Narasimha as an antar yamin, his form disappeared
    5. Amba gave him her darshan
    6. He meditated on Lord Shiva with Dhyana sloka of Dakshinamurthy stotra (some consider it as not authored by Adi Sankara, but here a guru has instructed his beloved disciple, who the guru has already announced a shis successor when he gave sanyasa at the age of 13 1/2 years).
    7. AV then meditated on Lord shiva with Snake as his ornament (thats what the verse was). After an hour, when he opened his eyes, he saw a snake loosely coiled round his neck. He touches the snake. Snake seemed to have liked his touched and rested his fin on his right cheek. After 5 minutes snake left him and AV returned to ashram (He was meditating on hearby mountain).
    8. Another day, his guru blessed him with Mantra 'Om Namah Shivaya' (that same guru had initiated him into Naramsimh upasana) and that day, AV had a darshan of Lord Shiva. Lord Shiva blessed him and ordered him to move on to Advaita sadhana.
    9. His guru then taught him advaita sadhana. During all these teaining, Av was young and he had not studied all shastras.
    10. He went into samadhi with the help of Laya Yoga (Gorakhnath's way), hearing sound and then mind merging into brahman, his Guru made him to enter into samadhi by mere will when they both meditated at same time. Finally one day, he got permanently established in Brahman

    Then his guru Chandrashekhara Saraswati brought him down. as he would not even come back to body consciousness, but his guru had different plans for him. He had to take care of math. So he asked him to come down from samadhi. AV also discussed Saraswati Rahasya upanishad regarding different types of Samadhi. This upanishad is also not accepted by some as no one except upanishad Brahma Yogin has written commentary.

    Sringeri Acharyas also revere works like Madhurastakam by Sri Vallabhacharya

    Some even say that Madhva also had non-dual experience but his disciples have removed all evidences and only left his dvaita philosophy. This is personal opinion of an individual.

    ---

    We are taught of negation of everything. But the teaching is adhyarpa-apavada. This means superimposition followed by retraction. But people only take retraction into account and say that maya is something negative. But what about the first part, adhyaropa? So attributes are added, ISvara also has attributes (upadha-s). It is perfectly well to glorify SaguNa Brahman, it is perfectly ok to sing Rama Nama, and the Maha Mantra. Only a few selected goes on to advaita sadhana.

    ---

    Vidyaranya Swami has written a commentary on Suta Samhita, a part of Skanda Purana. (Some say, he wrote commentary on entire purana, but I didnt researched on it).

    OM
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

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