An incredible revelation

[ShivaFan]

Namaste Eric

Please don't be insulted, but I am having a hard time believing you have obtained this state (of what I call buddhi). Of course, I am not one to say, because I have not come to such a state. And my hesitation to believe you has nothing to do in particular with your words you used in this post. I cannot exactly put my finger on the reasons behind my disbelief, frantly it is an odd senae of instinct and a feeling of "something in the air", "out of place", like a "counterfeit Vermeer" if you will.

Once a great artist, Dutch, in the 1930's and 40's made several counterfeit Jan Vermeers. They were almost perfect counterfeits. Even some Nazi leaders bought them thinking they were the real thing.

Now, this Dutch counterfeiter was indeed, a great artist. To make a Vermeer so convincing that even experts of one of the top museums declared them actual 17th Century Vermeers, well you cannot make such convincing Vermeers without being of the same mastery as Jan Vermeer himself.

So in the abstract, someone could say the counterfeits of Vermeer were indeed Vermeer reborn in the sense that the very Spirit of this Dutch Master lived again in the brush strokes of a later-day Dutch master (with a little m) of our age.

But none of that changes the fact that these paintings were counterfeits.

So then one questions, why would someone use their talent to make w counterfeit?

The answer is ego, and ultimately money and fame. To prove to the world "I am as good as Vermeer! So great am I that I fooled you to think my work was by the Master himself! See how great I am, and I made a lot of money besides! It was worth it, even when I got caught, since I have proven my Mastery!" ....

Hmmmm....

Many Hindus have actual visions and communion with the Devatas. Actually it is much more common than many imagine.

But they are somewhat hesitant to tell others about it in public. They tend to keep such things to their bhajan group, temple and devotee friends, but not really public about it.

Hmmmm ...

Are you a counterfeit master?

What is the Kalki to you? Will you stop eating all food?

Om Namah Sivaya

[Eric11235]

Shivafan,

First off, thank you, I do not consider what you say insulting. In fact if I were on the outside looking I'd have trouble believing that these claims were in fact true, it is both natural to Man's process of understanding and necessary. So no, am not insulted.

I will not try to counter the metaphor of vermeer because even though I do not conceive of it as an egotistical act, it comes off in an enormous capacity as that way. So that is also fair.

I will just say this, first off, I am as imperfect as anybody, I am fallible, I am biased and I have more problems than I care to mention in polite company. And perceiving those things as inherently bad is to me a miscalculation. That Which Is exists in perfection and formless on the plane of ultimate reality, but encompassing material reality means that as material reality Brahman encompasses everything good and bad. Because dichotomy exists on this plane so too does Brahman assume dichotomy. But just because this Dichotomy and perception exist does not mean they are necessarily that way (bad or good).


Secondly, For every time that I've shared religious experiences and communion with the almighty, there are many times when I kept it to myself. it is probably a safe assumption that the ego has played a part in my claim. But, I would like to note that if my claim was true (which I sincerely believe) then it displays ultimately the veracity of the idea that truly no one person is better than another. I have spent only 4 years in contemplation of the Lord in terms of Santana dharma, I have read as much scripture as there is english translation, at the same time however, I am a fairly average consumerist american college student, concerned with my future and what I ultimately want to do with my life (Filmmaking). But in spite of this I have attained to a transcendant reality that I cannot quantify because quantification limits and reduces it. I have understood bodily the truth and falsity of the individual self.

Finally, if I am telling you what any self respecting scholar of Advaita vedanta knows to be true merely to impress you or raise my ego, I'm not approaching bragging in a very intelligent light now am I?

So if my claim is true, then I want to be used as a means to identify that this is a state that is attainable by all if actively searched for.

All that being said, I would never expect you to truly believe that I have experienced these things and that thinking I'm a counterfeit master is perfectly acceptable and in no way denigrates my character.

With regards to Kalki, I have no perspective. I was planning to make a joke on being afraid of horses and abhorring violence, but that would probably paint a less than flattering picture of me and my sense of humor

Namaste

[Kalicharan Tuvij]

Namaste Eric,

I have attained to the state of Jivanmukta.

It is Supermind. And sure, the state of "jivanmukta".

I have also started a 40 day sadhana (currently on day 6) of 108 repetitions of the Mahamantra (hare krishna, hare krishna, krishna krishna, hare hare, hare rama, hare rama, rama rama, hare hare) and perhaps it is a result of that as well.

Your example showcases the importance of this mantra, especially for this age, where we must turn crisis into opportunity, particularly when the crisis seems to engulf us entirely (try practicing Dharma for one day and see how difficult it gets).

This is an enormous claim, and I am perfectly aware that to say that seems as an immensely egotistical act, but I share it for many reasons.

And a good decision.

First, the fact that I am in material reality a 23 year old american college student whose given name is Eric.

A 23 year old is expected to call a spade, instead of weaving words like us older ones do.
Again, a 23 year something is also expected to be a discoverer of truths and explorations.

Second, it is a measure of thanks for those who both helped me and hindered me on this path..

I see a bit of Yajvan here. All in all, it shows how Dharma can be realised even when the ecology of other Hindus, temples, etc is absent around one's living place. It also goes to show your hard work.

I have now realized, bodily, transcendantly what the illusion of self (Eric in this case) is. I am no longer terrified of death, nor do I welcome it to my bosom yet, there is still much I can accomplish in this corporeal form and I plan to do so.

Indeed, this is high, but also the low- mere start- of the journey from here onwards. Infact this will not remain as it is for a long time.
I see Supermind as Mother's place. She is the infinite self. But in the end the communication between the two selves is important. This also means discovering it again and again and again.
Realisation through the Mahāmantra is mostly a one-time act of grace from above, like a crutch thrown to a beggar. Mother says:
"Find nobler means.
There are so many ways, because there are so many Infinities. I tell you this since you have come here a guest."

In fact, I want everyone to feel this way, because when you feel this way, you feel the greatest love, joy, and serenity that you as a physical person will ever know. You will conceptualize internally Brahman's true form without truly knowing yet also truly knowing.

It is the "brahma" of Vedanta, because there is only one such, but not that of Veda, where there are many such. Listen closely to what Mother the brahma says.
So welcome to the play field of Infinities. Welcome to the Immortal Language of Infinity.
Welcome, not like that given to a king, but to a beggar who just received in alms that one day pass to arrive at the Disney land.

For those who are angered at this, I accept your insults readily and with joy.

You are a Jew Hindu. This is a burden, yet greater things can be achieved, both inwards and outwards.


Namaste SF,

Of course, I am not one to say, because I have not come to such a state.

Many Hindus have actual visions and communion with the Devatas. Actually it is much more common than many imagine.

But they are somewhat hesitant to tell others about it in public. They tend to keep such things to their bhajan group, temple and devotee friends, but not really public about it.

Sounds like someone on a roller-coaster drive moving so fast he's got no time to look on what the mile posts read, all since he wants to make 108 rounds of the thing
SF, you have had a fulfilling Hindu life, and got both age and wisdom on your side. Eric is right in sharing his experiences with us, this is the noblest thing to do in his situation.

Are you a counterfeit master?

It is only the first strokes of the first work.

What is the Kalki to you? Will you stop eating all food?

He could be a foot soldier of Shiva's army, who - forget stop eating food - wants to capture all resources of Mother Earth for Dharma.


KT

P.S.:
1. IMHO, that is, in my humble opinion.
2. A reply is not a must, I only a troll.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté


One must be aware that the final stoke to enlightenment is the complete exhaustion of 'this' or 'that', of 'me' or 'i' or time of past, present or future. Any and all differences do not exist in the highest anuttara¹. This perfect unfoldment begins with the re-recognition of the SELF; it is the mouth or entry point for this total fullness to be realized... Even the term realized is an inconvenient word to use.

You see, enlightenment is not a one-stop station one arrives at. Once SELF is recognized again then this wholeness begins to be seen both within and without every thing. It starts with the direct personal experience of SELF and continues.

This is why knowledge is important. The wisdom of our śāstra-s point out the ~milestones~.

iti śivaṁ

1. anuttara - chief, principle; unsurpassable ~supreme~.

[silence_speaks]

Eric & Friends,


The objective of a spiritual discussion is not to pull down someone and say "You have not realized", "you are bound", "you are small" etc. After all the teaching is that "you are Brahman". So please do not try to pull down someone who feels he is Free... Thats indeed what one is supposed to see oneself as.

Its really nice that Eric feels that he is not bound. Its wonderful and thats what every one should feel.... because shankara says :

sakruta sravana matrena, brahma jnanam yatho bhavet .... just as the knowledge of self takes place by merely hearing once !

Eric, Hold onto that. Live it ... Live like a Buddha or Ramana ... as you live ... it becomes more and more natural. Feelings are transient ... one cannot depend on the feelings because by their nature, they change. Now you feel that "There is no bondage" ... tomorrow , due to circumstances if the feeling "I am still bound" arises [and if people you discuss with try to create such a feeling] ... do not give credence to such a feeling ... bring back this current feeling and remain with it... strengthen this feeling and live like Ramana or Buddha ... not by going away from you activities ... but by doing them and yet maintaining the attitude of Buddha or Ramana.


Indeed you are Free ! Thats the teaching ... Thats what has to be lived. Live it ... Even if you feel otherwise later .... fake it and make it ... hold on to it. Remain calm , relaxed and satisfied ... live a satisfied life.

Ultimately, Mukthi is for the one who feels bound. Brahman has no bondage and no liberation. You are Ever Free!

Shivoham, Shivoham.

Love!
Silence

[devotee]

Namaste Eric,

But in spite of this I have attained to a transcendant reality that I cannot quantify because quantification limits and reduces it. I have understood bodily the truth and falsity of the individual self.

So if my claim is true, then I want to be used as a means to identify that this is a state that is attainable by all if actively searched for.

Whether this claim is true or not, I don't know but this is certainly a positive sign which takes you towards the Absolute. Vedanta tell us that "this" becomes what this is worshiped as. In fact, Buddhists, right from the beginning vehemently deny any existence of "self" (individual self) (though sometimes they get entangled into quagmire of words in trying to explain and start denying Self as well).

So, you are on the right path and there is no bragging at all. You are none but Brahman beyond all births and deaths. So the "bondage" never existed in the first place. So, calling oneself "Jivanmukta" too is fallacious in one way i.e. from the point of view of Jivanmukta because when there was no bondage then there is no release from bondage too.

Now, the question is how deep this understanding is. That is a very important question and only the Truth-seeker himself knows the truth. There are some questions which must be answered right to be able to estimate where one stands :

a) Do I have any desire for any carnal or mental pleasure at this state ? ===> The answer should be "NO".

b) Do I fear/hate anything in this world or beyond ? ===> The answer should be "NO".

c) Do I wish anything to happen to me or people around me ? ===> The answer should be "NO".

d) Does this world disturb me in anyway ? ===> The answer should be "NO".

e) If there is any being in slightest pain, do I feel the pain with equal intensity that the being feels ? ====> The answer should be "Yes".

f) Do I depend upon anything in nature for my survival ? ====> The answer should be "NO".

g) Do I feel a state of bliss which cannot be affected by outside environment ? ===> The answer should be "Yes".

h) Do I see God everywhere and in all beings ? ====> The answer should be "Yes".

i) My wish is same as God's wish. So, do my needs (for performing my task in this world as per God's wishes) get automatically fulfilled at the right time ? ====> The answer should be "Yes".

j) Do my face, body, eyes exude the ultimate peace ? ====> The answer should be "Yes".

*********************

Please don't think that I have any authority for setting these standards. I am just a seeker on the path of Truth and I still have a long way to go to reach my destination. The above has been gathered by me by reading My Guru's teachings and teachings by other Self-realised souls.

I anyone is able to get even half the answers matching with the given answers, I bow to him/her with great reverence.

Namaste Eric.

OM

[Mana]

Namaste,

Dear Eric: How wonderful, isn't She beautiful? I am investigating spiritual revelation, by way of Jyotis aspect; I wonder, would you mind sharing your birth details with me?

Kind regards.

[Eric11235]

Namaste Devotee,

I agree that the term Jivanmukta is a fallacious one, I simply use it because there can be no words that describe the state (as it is limitless and formless etc.)

I will answer your questions as honestly as I can,

A caveat however is that some of the answers are a touch more complicated than the Yes/No split.

1. The answer is Yes. However, they are part of the remaining ego that still exists within the mortal coil. So also no insofar as the self has no desire

2. Absolutely Not: My entire being is anti-thetical to hate in any form. I literally feel love for everything created and uncreated. Every one who hates me, I love, every person who is hateful, I love. Love is my being and my being is love

3. Almost no, this one is complicated by a desire for well being among people or a feeling of peace and serenity, in line with the above statement, I wish no harm on people. I still want this revelation to occur in everyone, but other than that I have no great wishes for other people to suffer or any other thing good or bad.

4. No, the world does not disturb me, the material universe is in all its forms, Brahman's material state, so all those things which people consider evil, bad, unpleasant etc. I am not disturbed by because they are also brahman.

5. Before the realization I had a high degree of empathy, so when someone is suffering I can feel it, it is in my nature to do the best I can to help them out. Sometimes I have to resist the urge to help people because I'm either neglecting my own needs or I have not the material requirements that would help the other out. So yes, I do

6. This again requires a slightly complicated answer. I do still need to subsist on nature to survive. However, I don't actively desire nature's sustenance to provide for me. So I"m eating less and doing other things of that nature with less frequency

7. Enormously so. This state is that of pure unending joy, any negative feelings Eric has exist on the material plane alone and only affect his material existence, this feeling of oneness and the joy that arises is unimpeachable.

8. An Unequivocal yes on this matter as well. Realizing bodily ultimate reality is understanding that Brahman is absolute, the totality of all, and the individual soul is an illusion

9. Sometimes the desires of this world are not congruent with God's will, so No sometimes, but I have been noticing other things going right when they feel right, so also yes.

10. I cannot speak for this last one because being confined to this body I cannot necessarily see outside it so I have no way of knowing.

I hope that elucidates things for you Devotee.

Mana, please message me if you would like those details, I'd be happy to share

Namaste

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté

Please note in the final/ultimate experience of Being ( some like to call enlightenment) there are no boundaries what so ever.
If we look to devotee's questions to Eric, they can be boiled down (from my POV) to three:
1. Does 'mind' still exist ?
2. Does mind give rise to ego ?
3. Are any boundaries experienced?


If so there is still some boundaries left... this does not suggest Eric's experience is less rewarding or Self is not being experienced. It suggests the fullest blossoming of this level is still to unfold.

So the question is that of the silence within. We look for guidance from the wise. Let's look to ādi śaṅkara-ji's description as perfect stillness - perfect Being. My teacher would always talk of 'the silence within' and this IMHO defines it justly.

nirvāṇa+ṣaṭ+kam

• nirvāṇa - blown or put out , extinguished calmed , quieted , tamed ; yet as a as a noun it is perfect calm or repose or happiness , highest bliss;
• ṣaṭ+kam ṣaṭ = ṣaḍ = 6 or 6 times + kam;
• kam can be looked as as an affirmative sense of ' yes' or ' well' due to its being at the end of the word; kam has many applications and meanings, as kam is also happiness, welfare, etc. ( note too ká is a noun of brahman).

Hence, the 6 stanzas that offer perfect calm and happiness, yes. Note each recension ends with śivohaṁ śivohaṁ¹.

• I am not mind, wisdom, pride, and heart. Or I am not ear, tongue, nose and eyes. I am not sky, land, power, and wind. I am thought and joy, I am eternal-bliss, I am eternal-bliss (śivohaṁ śivohaṁ)
• I am not the state of being alive or the five types of prāṇavāyu. I am not the seven elements constituting the body (dhātu-s or the constitution of the body) or I am not the five sheaths which hide the soul. I am not voice, hand, or legs. I am not the portion at the bottom of waist (anus or liṅga). I am thought and joy, I am eternal-bliss, I am eternal-bliss (śivohaṁ śivohaṁ)
• I am not the state of envy and passion or I am not the emotions of greed and attachment. I am not intoxication or I am not the emotion of jealousy. And I am not even the four puruṣārtha, (the 4 goals in life dharma, artha, kāma and mokṣa). I am thought and joy, I am eternal-bliss, I am eternal-bliss (śivohaṁ śivohaṁ).
• I am not puṇya or pāpa ( ~fortune/merit or or sin~), friendship, or grief. I am not the chants or shrines. I am not the Veda, the sacrifice and the oblation. I am not even the action of eating, or the one that should be eaten (food), or the consumer. I am thought and joy, I am eternal-bliss, I am eternal-bliss (śivohaṁ śivohaṁ).
• I am not death, I am not the doubts, I am not the differences between races. I am not a father, I am not a mother, or not even the birth. I am not a relative, I am not a preceptor, or I am not even a disciple. I am thought and joy, I am eternal-bliss, I am eternal-bliss ( śivohaṁ śivohaṁ).
• I am free from changes, and lack all the qualities and forms. I am present everywhere in all the sense-organs. I am not free or I am not even associated. I am not measurable (in any way). I am thought and joy, I am eternal-bliss, I am eternal-bliss (śivohaṁ śivohaṁ).

praṇām


word and references

• śivohaṁ = śiva + ham ; this 'ham' an exclamation of courtesy or respect ; yet it is also it leads us to 'ha' which is the shortened version of aham or 'I am' - hence I am śiva.
• The above translation is offered ( with a few additions by me) from this site http://www.stutimandal.com/new/poemgen.php?id=30 where one can see the saṃskṛt text.
• Another translation here: http://www.swamij.com/shankara-atma-shatakam.htm

[Arjunesh]

good luck anyway