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Thread: One supreme god, multiple facets..

  1. #11
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    Re: One supreme god, multiple facets..

    namaste Yajvan.

    > It is a pleasure to talk with you again... like a warm breeze of wisdom upon one's face.

    The pleasure is mine too, as your wisdom fills up the gaps in mine.

    Births
    'Dipping into pure awareness' (which the guru bestows upon the disciple) is what births are about is news to me and may well be true; but then, although the guru takes on the burden of karma of his disciple, the latter has still to suffer his sanchita karma, which requires an actual birth, isn't that so? Or would this sanchita karma be destroyed in the dips?

    Intense longing
    Yes, Shiva's grace can overrule even a mountain of karma and grant mokSha--salvation to a devotee.
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

  2. #12
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    Re: One supreme god, multiple facets..

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté saidevo,

    Quote Originally Posted by saidevo View Post
    Births
    'Dipping into pure awareness' (which the guru bestows upon the disciple) is what births are about is news to me and may well be true; but then, although the guru takes on the burden of karma of his disciple, the latter has still to suffer his sanchita karma, which requires an actual birth, isn't that so? Or would this sanchita karma be destroyed in the dips?
    For those reading along with this conversation, saṇcita karma ( some write saṁcita¹) we're talking the admixture of all actions albeit positive , negative or neutral.
    Yet when one ~dips~ into pure awareness these karma-s are left behind, as they are of the relative field of life.

    So, one must ask, why then does one come out of the ocean of pure Being ? It is because of vāsanā-s ( so say the wise); the impressions
    in the mind-stuff , that brings one back to the surface. It is these that require disbursement. That occurs with the one's absorption into
    pure awareness, in Being.


    In the parā-trīśikā vivaraṇa tantra¹ abhinavagupta-ji says it this way:
    Just as by washing the dirt or impurity lying in the inner fold of a cloth, the dirt lying on the upper portion ( the outer folds) gets automatically washed or cleansed ; even so, by the removal of the dirt (mala) lying at the subtle levels, the dirt residing at the madhyamā levels get automatically removed.

    It is again supported in abhinavagupta-ji's commentary on the paramārthasāra¹ , 55th verse. It says residual impressions that
    are meritorious and ignoble ( or positive and negative) that are accumulated, are removed (vanish is the world used) by the
    illumining power of knowledge , like a heap of cotton incinerated by fire.


    The 'knowledge' we are being informed of is not that of mathematics, chemistry or the like , but that of pure consciousness, pure awareness.
    This is supported by the bhagavadgītā, chapter 4, 37th verse: Just as (yathā) a kindled (samiddhaḥ) fire (agniḥ) reduces logs to ashes (edhāṁsi... bhasmasāt kurute), oh arjuna, so does (tathā) the
    fire (agniḥ) of Knowledge (jñāna) turns all actions to ashes (sarva-karmāṇi bhasmasāt kurute... iti).


    So then what is that process one may ask ? Abhinavagupta say it this way :
    Leave both dharma and adharma . Having left both truth and falsehood leave also by which you leave everything.
    T
    his instruction is leave dharma and adharma behind, that is within the world of duality, the relative field of life of thinking and doing.
    But what does he mean leave also by which you leave everything?
    He his saying even leave behind the technique (upāya), the mantra or method that got you to this level of refined consciousness.
    This is apropos to conversation of 'dipping' into pure awareness. I like to say it the way I was instructed:
    withdraw then withdraw from the withdraw. We know that these words as sūtras ( or stitches, snippets). So people ask withdraw from what?

    Withdraw from the parts (aṅga) and experience the whole,(aṅgī) or Being; then withdraw from the withdrawal i.e. withdraw from that whole or aṅgī, and come back to the parts. Now what's that again?

    Withdraw from the duality of life, the parts, diversity (aṅga) and experience fullness, bhuma, turīya ( aṅgī ), then come back to diversity.

    It is this process that destroys the vāsanā-s. But don't we make more vāsanā-s ? as they are defined as impressions within the mind-stuff.

    We can address this in the next post if there is interest.

    iti śivaṁ



    words

    • saṁcita - piled together , heaped up , gathered , collected , accumulated or the sum of.
    • parā-trīśikā vivaraṇa tantra - this work is also known by the name anuttarasūtra-s , the essence of the Unsuprassable. Some
      to refer it as the trikasūtra-s.
    • paramārthasāra is in essence the work of śeṣa patañjali ( some call ādiśeṣa ) consisting of 85 śloka-s and is expanded upon
      by abhinavagupta within the framework of advitīya (~ non dual~, without a second) kaśmir śaivism
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #13
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    Re: One supreme god, multiple facets..

    Namaste. Thankyou all for this timeless wisdom, I'm still soaking this all in & I'm understanding the theology behind it but will wait for my other senses to contemplate this before coming back to this thread.
    <3

  4. #14
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    Re: One supreme god, multiple facets..

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté



    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post

    So then what is that process one may ask ? Abhinavagupta say it this way :
    Leave both dharma and adharma . Having left both truth and falsehood leave also by which you leave everything.
    This instruction is leave dharma and adharma behind, that is within the world of duality, the relative field of life of thinking and doing.
    But what does he mean leave also by which you leave everything? He his saying even leave behind the technique (upāya), the mantra or method that got you to this level of refined consciousness.
    This is apropos to conversation of 'dipping' into pure awareness.
    Some will read this and think - oh, I need not act in accordance with dharma, I am to leave it behind. I am to also leave behind adharma; hence this leaves me to do as I please.

    This is the mind of the confused person. Why so ? They comprehend this instruction to reside within the field of daily living. Of going and coming, of shopping, of working , etc. This is not the case. This knowledge is given for one's dhyāna and dhāraā ( meditation and one-pointed practice). By one's practice of dhyāna and dhāraā one leaves behind the relative field; also by this practice one even leaves behind the practice itself, yet this is the natural bi-product of the practice when done easily and effortlessly. It is not something one controls, but sets the conditions for this to occur.
    It is just like diving into a swimming pool. We take the proper angle of entry and just let go; gravity takes over and we are immersed in the water. Like that, dhyāna and dhāraā set up the ~proper angle~ and we then take a 'dip' into pure awareness, pure being.
    It is a very innocent process. The more we try to make it happen the more it does not.

    iti śivaṁ


    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  5. #15

    Re: One supreme god, multiple facets..

    Namaste Yajvan,

    Thank you for your wisdom it is refreshing to read. I find that in all inspired human ideas and creation, as also in art the creators intention is percieved in the oeuvre, thus it is those of pure intention who in time are considered; it would appear that it is only the sustenance of satva that allows for long-lived existence of vāsanā; the rajas of desire simply burns up its own creations, in so very short a time; as is the case of our material and artistic endeavours today.

    Kind regards.

  6. #16

    Re: One supreme god, multiple facets..

    Namasthe All.


    Confusion will be there till end ,till your heart and mind realize the oneness of all which is complete Realization.

    IMHO, all sadhana is about this only to turn inward and search for the reality. You want to know it from your experience, till then it is not part of you. All scriptures, shared knowledge from others helps to seriously seek this Reality. If someone says i have no confusion then one must be Realized person or just accepting these words without verification.
    All our revered Rishis did great Tapas and found these truths. We also need to do for helping ourselves and hence this world around us.
    One needs to learn to see/feel subtler to subtlest to reach that state. But asking questions is always good as it opens new pages in learning.
    Faith in Guru's words and sincerity in practice can take all of us there.

    With Regards
    Rama

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