Iskcon is a part of Hinduism - Confirmed

[grames]

Dear

It is not new and it is in fact, new to those who haven't got a chance to know how the practices and life styles evolved in the sub continent or at least to the known recorded history. Even in your summation, you are conveying the same message (but by the parameter of worship alone) but hope i think you also know for the fact, HINDU here does not cover everything else ( whether you call it Hinduism or SD is not what i am explaining or talking about). There is no disagreement that all are different parts of the Hinduism or SD but just the label Hinduism or Hindu is abstract. Its like calling "Color" but until you tell what :Color: it is, the fact is that it just remains abstract. So, green is a color, agreed. Red is a color agreed. What is a Color?? That's exactly the notion of "Hindu" and its meaning. It is just the fact that, they dont want to be identified with abstract names instead they want to be identified as "Krshna Prema Bhakta Varga" Only. So, going with your logic, it is not wrong or incorrect either but just that with information, you can understand it better and clear.

Other devata worship is not denounced and should not be denounced and if that is true, the long list of Guru and their Vyasa Pooja performed by ISKCON will be a joke. An exclusive surrender to Krshna does not mean you don't offer "respect" and obeisance to the great higher beings and Gurus and kicking the ladder that takes you to the destination Krshna is not worthy.

Newbie hindu or westerner Hindu need not get carried away with just terms . If they come to HinduDharmaForums, they will see so many sub sections and they all are not "collectively" called Hindu but they are concrete instances of the abstract label or brand Hindu.

Again, SD will be most suitable label or name in my personal opinion!

Hare Krshna!

[Believer]

Namaste,

I think we are gravitating towards a convergence of ideas.

To keep things simple,
I could be a Hindu who worships Krishan Bhagwan as the supreme deity, OR
I could be a Hindu who worships Shiv Bhagwan as the supreme deity, OR
I could be a Hindu who worships Kali Ma as the supreme deity, OR
whatever else is out there,

In each case I am a complete Hindu, not a part Hindu.
I just practice one of the many flavors of Hinduism.

SD would be a better designation, but that is water under the bridge. We call ourselves Hindus and others know us as Hindus. If someone thinks they can change all that, I would like him/her to step forward and I would support them all the way in their endeavor. But just having this pie in the sky dream of changing the designation and asking the whole world to follow us in the name change, is what I just said, a pipe dream and an exercise in futility.

This is just one example of what happens in this forum - people reintroduce already discussed ideas/problems to the forum without volunteering to fix them. We all know that SD would be better designation of our faith, nothing new there. Who is going to lead in making the change? It is unlike a simple task of changing the name of a city from Madras to Chennai. Preaching to the choir does not accomplish anything. One needs to get out there and make things happen, instead of just making posts in this forum.

Pranam.

[brahman]

Namaste,

Why should we treat an amalgamation of different practices (including animal sacrifices) and relate it with a thing that preaches Ahimsa?

Dear Anirudh,

Animal sacrifice is permitted in the Vedas; it also declares the indispensability of killing animals for the performance of some complex rituals in its purest ever formats.

Yet, it would seem difficult to find a single passage in the same Vedas that substantiates the absence of evil consequences arising by the killing of animal species.

Killing produces sin; sin is the generative force that that produces fear; fear has the ability to originate pain; thence killing is dangerous.

Animal slaughter is impure and unclean as well; and since all these rituals are capable of producing results that only lasts for a limited period of time, the state of happiness obtained by this practice cannot be eternal either. It is just another POV. Love

[Anirudh]

Namaste Brahman

I too got the same message after reading a blog I had mentioned in my last post in this thread.

Animal slaughter is impure and unclean as well; and since all these rituals are capable of producing results that only lasts for a limited period of time, the state of happiness obtained by this practice cannot be eternal either.

[kriyarameeshh]

Sri Matre namaha,

ISCON itself is not part of Hinduism. Don't bother. They are just propagating a cult of their own. They would well be remembered as part of the history text books or in the museums as was the case with many other world religions.

Regards,
Rameeshh

[ShivaFan]

Namaste Kriyarameeshh

Actually, most sects within Hinduism have unique distinctions which set them apart such that some other could declare it as its own religion. Including yours probably.

But they all also share too many "Hinduisms" and deep roots that really limit getting away with declaring your sect as not part of these roots. I am not saying it cannot happen, perhaps Jains are an example but sometimes Jains are very Hindu indeed.

I disagree that ISKCON is its "own world religion", ISKCON is from these roots, will never be considered its "own religion" outside of these roots by outside observers, nor by scholars over the time of history, nor by other Hindus in large part. It wouldn't even matter if ISKCON itself declared they are their "own religion", it isn't how history is going to record their participation, and history belongs to the victors.

I would not be so fast to declare ISKCON dead, and not one to be a victor in the spoils of history. I am not sure what sect you belong to, I do not belong to ISKCON but it would not surprise me that ISKCON "survives" while your sect may not be known or at least eclipses your sect.

Many ISKCON temples are full of Indian born, not just Westerners. In fact, many ISKCON temples are pretty much totally run by Indians.

A temple is its congregation, and the Holy Residents of that temple. I am not so sure that congregation is going away anytime soon. If anything, I predict it will be much larger 100 years from now than it was today, which by the way is not obscure in the least in todays standards.

In India itself, nothing that was is no longer there. You will find it if you look.

Nothing is over until "the fat lady sings" as the saying goes. So you might as well get used to it and get along with fellow Hindus.

Om Namah Sivaya

[kriyarameeshh]

Sri Matre Namaha,

Namaste Siva Fan,

I'm from India, born and raised in a Hindu family. But we do not belong to any particular sect, for I do not even understand this Sectarian stuff with in Hinduism. My mother worships Guru and Dattatreya, my father loves Vishnu and I 'm more inclined towards Divine mother. I adore and worship Bhagavan Sri Krishna but would never accept the teacings of ISKCON. There is more to it and I have just finished posting in one of the threads in the Hare Krishna forums. Only I understand that pain I under go each time ISKCON falsify s the facts about Krishna and other Hindu Scriptures.

Regards,
Rameeshh

[ShivaFan]

Namaste Kriya Ramesh

What a pleasant surprise that your Mother is a devotee of Guru and Dattatreya! I give my respects both to your Mother and your Father who you say is a devotee of Lord Vishnu.

Recently in the last year I have developed a huge respect for devotees of Dattatreya and Gurus of this lineage. There is now a temple of Hanuman in Texas (but I live in California), this temple is founded by Ganapathy Sachchidananda Swamiji of such a lineage and is doing very well.

I actually enjoyed your post in the "Before samsara" thread regarding being sort of tricked by ISKCON devotees selling books and calendars to raise temple funds in front of the Sai Baba of Shirdi Temple in Bangalore. Not to sound smart alec, but I actually found it amusing and wished I was with you at both this temple and at the Bangalore ISKCON temple so that I could enjoy these adventures.

I know that sounds strange, but it comes from my "Western" Hindu background, such amusing sheenanigans are not so common in nor in front of Hindu temples in the West, but seem sort of common in front of or inside of Hindu temples in India, whether from ISKCON or not, all sorts of temples. I mean no insult, but I actually laughed reading your story, and I can tell you stories that would make your adventure of being "taken for a ride" verily pale in comparison, they all happened in India and some of them could make the hair on the back of your neck stand up. Some were even dodgy or dicey. Probably the most classic are those at the Kali Ghat Temple Kolkata, but I can tell you so many more and me and my Western friends actually look back at these "taken for a ride" adventures with loving amusement and love to retell them to others and actually yearn to return and get "ripped off" again.

Yes. We want to go back, again and again, some of these rides are now seen as some of the best moments in our boring lives if it were not for such leelas with devotees!

Of course, you are Indian, so you may not fully understand. Being taken for a ride for a few hundred rupees is well worth the price to such as me. Later, we smile, and add it as "spice to the soup" of the wonderful adventures in Hinduism. You need to understand, Western Hindus stand out as the "guy with money" and soon we learn to fully expect what is about to happen as a temple, pandits and officials of the temple, hope beyond hope try to get some rupees and temple donations from those such as me coming from America, and so what? I may be "taken for a ride", but it's not that big of a deal to get all upset about it.

Way back when, I bought my "Life Membership" from ISKCON in Vrinadavan. I am not ISKCON, but I purchased it. It cost me way back then 1,000 rupees.

Today that amounts to only 16 dollars. 16 dollars won't buy you 5 KGs of Zebra brand basmati rice today (that's my favorite rice).

I suppose way back when, I was "taken for a ride" for that 1000 rupees. But that Life Membedship card can come in real handy for lodging at ISKCON sites all over the world when it might be difficult to find lodging. WELL worth that 1000 rupees, which is pea feed today!

I remember sitting on the floor of a temple in Vrindavan too, which was not ISKCON, perhaps as I describe this there may be some resident of Vrindavan who will recognize the temple as I describe it. Me and another "Westerner" are there, and two temple officials are hovering us, on the walls of the lobby are white tiles with names of those who have donated to the temple.

They want desperately for us to give a donation. In return they promise a white tile with my name on it will also be put up in the lobby. They really were trying hard. And there was no doubt, they were asking for a donation much, much larger than most of those who have a tile in their name or from local Indians.

Do I have a problem with that, that we were being "taken for a ride"? Guess what... we gave. It was way more than the 1000 rupee life membership to ISKCON. So they were so happy. They had us fill out our name for the tile, we even got a receipt.

I have no doubt, that no such tile was ever made in my name, nor ever put in that lobby.

It didn't matter.

It was one more, beloved adventure in Hinduism. To this day, I am so happy to have given to that temple. I had a chance to be part of one little moment in that temple which has no time but all time and forever.

Om Namah Sivaya

[govind_das]

I personally am grateful to ISKCON for popularising Hinduism in the west. For many Americans, ISKCON is the best known representative of Hinduism. Although I am not ISKCON, my first introduction to Vaishnavism and Hinduism in general was from reading their books. I have since read other books by different Hindu teachers, but for me, my discovery of Hinduism began with a couple of Hare Krishna books.

[hinduism♥krishna]

Namaste

For those who don't know origin of iskcon :

International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON), known colloquially as the Hare Krishna movement or Hare Krishnas, is a Gaudiya Vaishnava religious organisation . Gaudiya vaishnawism is a branch of vaishnawism and vaishnawism is one of the four main branches of Hinduism .
It was founded in 1966 in by Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.Its core beliefs are based on select traditional Indian scriptures, particularly the Bhagavad-gītā and the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam.

It claims their origin from chaitanya mahaprabhu who was a prominent hindu bengal saint and devotee of lord Krishna !