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Thread: Superstition & Faith

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    Superstition & Faith

    Namaste

    I am not attempting to hurt anyone's spritual sentiments.

    Mostly I take pedestrian route to get Shree Venkatachalapathi Darshan.

    ie 3600 steps + 3 to 4 hours waiting in Que + push&pull by fellow devotees waiting in the Que.

    All for few seconds of Balaji Darshan.

    Likewise few pierce their body, few walk on live coal etc etc...

    Yesterday I was suppose to go to a temple but postponed because of the bad weather and physical tiredness.

    if we consider tiredness as an important factor then pedestrian pilgrimage can be easily termed a superstition. So is walking on live coal or body piercing etc etc

    So what is superstition from religious / spritual pointwof view?

    How it is different from "Faith".

    Is there any thing called superstition in spirituaulity?

    How to draw line of difference
    Last edited by Anirudh; 04 October 2014 at 01:52 AM.
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Superstition & Faith

    Vannakkam Anirudh ... I take all this as being up to the individual to decide. Withinthe human family, we have the range from 'all spirituality is superstition' (atheist) to 'everything is valid' to some degree.

    So, with keen observation, intellect, and intuition, we all draw our own conclusions. If you made a superstition quiz of various activities, then asked for yes or no responses, there would be a wide range of results, no?

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Superstition & Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    Vannakkam Anirudh ... I take all this as being up to the individual to decide. Withinthe human family, we have the range from 'all spirituality is superstition' (atheist) to 'everything is valid' to some degree.

    So, with keen observation, intellect, and intuition, we all draw our own conclusions. If you made a superstition quiz of various activities, then asked for yes or no responses, there would be a wide range of results, no?

    Aum Namasivaya
    This is simply excellent view on the issue, EM ji! No other response could clarify the situation more aptly than yours.

    I just wanted to add to Anirudh ji -- even in the case of 'upavas' or 'fasting' (for spiritual reasons), many go with what it is said of 'Ekadashi vrat' or the auspiciousness of fasting on important days. But, there are also many acharyas, if I am right, it could be Kanchi Paramacharya (sorry if not), who said, there is no necessity to put the body to suffering (including fasting) to pray to god. All that is important is the seed of devotion, all else is just superficial. However to many of the Ekadashi fasters, it may mean a lot to be reminded of the benefits of such fasting - they will tell you how disciplinary it is.

    Anything done with sincerity and devotion to the Lord, is accepted by him, even if not done in the right way or the prescribed way. The poor who are most frequently tied up with hard physical labour most of the day may find only that 1 special day to show their reverance to their beloved 'Amman' - and may resort to the hardest rituals such as fire walking -- not sure if it is granted by the agamas, but even this, if they are sincere (which many are) are indeed accepted by god. It is even said, some devatas also accept animal sacrifices and reduce the negative karma and suffering of a devotee except that, the bad karma of killing an animal comes back to them in a different form!

    So when it comes to divine worship, there is no correct or incorrect way of worship. It all depends on the bhAvA of the devotee. One Kannappa Nayanar, devotee of Shri Shiva is said to have pierced his own eye(s) to offer to the Lord in devotion! This shows the ultimatum of devotion, the Lord accepted it and manifested in front of him that very instace!

    Thanks & Regards,

    Viraja
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: Superstition & Faith

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namaste


    Regarding faith, as I see it...
    śraddhā - faith, unwavering faith; trust , confidence , trustfulness , faithfulness

    It is my firm belief that śraddhā is an important ingredient to one's spiritual unfoldment or vipramokṣa¹ - But who I am I to say?

    If we looked to the chāndogya upaniṣad, nārada-ji is instructed by the great muni sanatkumāra-ji. Nārada wishes to know Brahman in full, in his own being. Sanatkumāra-ji talks of 26 qualities. The 19th quality is śraddhā faith. He says the following:
    When having śraddhā faith alone one contemplates. One of no faith never contemplates. Faith therefore is to be known in detail. Nārada says, Then revered Sir, I would like to know this śraddhā in detail.
    Sanatkumāra-ji says the following:
    When having steadfastness alone (niṣṭhā) one has faith. One of no steadfastness ( lacking niṣṭhā) never has faith. The steadfast alone if endowed with faith. Steadfastness (niṣṭhā) therefore is to be known.


    It seems then the superstition does not have this quality of niṣṭhā¹ associated with it. To me , superstition lacks resolution, focus; It is as if the person with this mala (blemish) is at the hands of probability - maybe something will happen maybe it won't but I hope ( wish ) that it turns out the way I want it. Just like playing dice. I hope I get a 7, but I am not sure this will occur. The laws of probability are there. Last time I rubbed my lucky charm I got a seven, but then the next time I tried it, it did not occur, so I hope (wish) it will occur again.

    Now the tough question. If one has faith will they get a 7, is that any better ? It seems the answer is not so much in the outcome but in one's resolve. The unwavering approach that one is not 'bent' by grief or anxiety that a 7 did not occur. With superstition it seems, the toll of not getting the 7 brings along the baggage of grief and despair.


    iti śivaṁ

    • vipramokṣa - release; deliverance from
    • niṣṭhā -firmness , steadiness , attachment , devotion
    Last edited by yajvan; 04 October 2014 at 09:46 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Superstition & Faith

    Namaste Yajvan ji

    Apparently for every possible doubts that may arise in a devotee, our Sages have written clarifications in advance.
    Our life is full of challenges, each challenge is intertwined with one or more challenges, actions we take to handle them is based on the past actions.

    When these actions are to be carried out with in a framework governed by basic rules like detached attachment and establishment of truth etc, we get many doubts.

    Like you mentioned faith empowered by steadfastness is the ONLY thing that keep us going when uncertainty and ignorance is in abundance.

    I will sum up my learnings in two parts :
    1. Unconditional Surrender (Saranagathi)
    2. Unflinching faith in Unconditional Surrender (Mahaa Vishwaasam in Saranagathi)

    Thank you very much.

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hariḥ o�
    ~~~~~~
    namaste


    Regarding faith, as I see it...
    śraddh� - faith, unwavering faith; trust , confidence , trustfulness , faithfulness

    It is my firm belief that śraddh� is an important ingredient to one's spiritual unfoldment or vipramokṣa¹ - But who I am I to say?

    If we looked to the ch�ndogya upaniṣad, n�rada-ji is instructed by the great muni sanatkum�ra-ji. N�rada wishes to know Brahman in full, in his own being. Sanatkum�ra-ji talks of 26 qualities. The 19th quality is śraddh� faith. He says the following:
    When having śraddh� faith alone one contemplates. One of no faith never contemplates. Faith therefore is to be known in detail. N�rada says, Then revered Sir, I would like to know this śraddh� in detail.
    Sanatkum�ra-ji says the following:
    When having steadfastness alone (niṣṭh�) one has faith. One of no steadfastness ( lacking niṣṭh�) never has faith. The steadfast alone if endowed with faith. Steadfastness (niṣṭh�) therefore is to be known.


    It seems then the superstition does not have this quality of niṣṭh�¹ associated with it. To me , superstition lacks resolution, focus; It is as if the person with this mala (blemish) is at the hands of probability - maybe something will happen maybe it won't but I hope ( wish ) that it turns out the way I want it. Just like playing dice. I hope I get a 7, but I am not sure this will occur. The laws of probability are there. Last time I rubbed my lucky charm I got a seven, but then the next time I tried it, it did not occur, so I hope (wish) it will occur again.

    Now the tough question. If one has faith will they get a 7, is that any better ? It seems the answer is not so much in the outcome but in one's resolve. The unwavering approach that one is not 'bent' by grief or anxiety that a 7 did not occur. With superstition it seems, the toll of not getting the 7 brings along the baggage of grief and despair.


    iti śiva�

    • vipramokṣa - release; deliverance from
    • niṣṭh� -firmness , steadiness , attachment , devotion
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Superstition & Faith

    Namaste,

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    I take all this as being up to the individual to decide. Withinthe human family, we have the range from 'all spirituality is superstition' (atheist) to 'everything is valid' to some degree.
    +1

    However, every human being is endowed with "Viveka" i.e. the power to discriminate between "right" and "wrong" and there are scriptures endorsed by enlightened beings. We should use our "Viveka" and study scriptures which help us understanding what we should do and what not.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Superstition & Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste,

    However, every human being is endowed with "Viveka" i.e. the power to discriminate between "right" and "wrong" and there are scriptures endorsed by enlightened beings. We should use our "Viveka" and study scriptures which help us understanding what we should do and what not.

    OM
    Vanakkam Devotee: Indeed, a wise person would use their intelligence, ability to read, etc., to consult scriptures, Gurus, etc. to make these decisions.

    However, they may encounter contradictions in teachings, in which case the final decision is theirs. I also don't feel there is any absolute right/wrong in many matters. What is necessary or true or what works for one person may not for another.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Superstition & Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    However, they may encounter contradictions in teachings, in which case the final decision is theirs. I also don't feel there is any absolute right/wrong in many matters. What is necessary or true or what works for one person may not for another.
    Exactly !

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  9. #9

    Re: Superstition & Faith

    Dear Friends,


    Sraddha is very loosely translated as "Faith" but it is not exactly "faith".

    Sraddha is defined, as per Swami Tattvavidananda Saraswati ji: Srat dadhati iti sraddha... Srat is sat nama... so that attitude which allows one to see SAT is sraddha. What IS is SAT.

    That is the correct attitude needed to inquire into truth is sraddha.

    if i say "i have an idol of sri krishna in my bag"
    a set of people believe it.
    a set of people disbelieve me..
    and a few may go , open my bag and see. These are people who say "ok, we take what you say on face value and are ready to investigate"
    this attitude is called Sraddha. These are people who are open... to not reject immediately .... and yet are inquiring enough to see for oneself. These have sraddha. This attitude ... also called Beginner's mind in Zen ... is not the same as faith or belief. Some call it belief pending investigation.

    When i have a belief which is unverified and i believe it without inquiring ... its a superstition eventually.

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  10. #10

    Re: Superstition & Faith

    So Sraddha is very important ... but not as a belief ... its important as an attitude .... where i do not reject directly ... i am open .... and then am ready to inquire.

    openness + readiness to inquire --- this is the kind of sraddha thats important.

    not beliefs. not notions.

    and more importantly its very much required to reject superstitions out right. make every effort for that as even Buddha did, without being very harsh.

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

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