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Thread: Is everything impermanent ?

  1. #1

    Is everything impermanent ?

    Namaste,

    The tittle says what my question is, but I'd like to precize it : after a short analysis of hindu holy Scriptures, such as Bhagavad Gita, I know a little more what is our destiny according to this belief.
    My understanding tells me that everything is impermanent in this world, except the holy purusha we all carry in our own person. Siddhartha Gautama explained the impermanence of all thing : I know he is considered as an avatara of Vishnou by hinduist tradition, so I believe his teachings are not uninteresting for an hinduist philosopher... But that's juste my hypothesis

    Waiting for your opinions !

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    Re: Is everything impermanent ?

    Namaste
    Quote Originally Posted by VVV View Post
    Namaste,

    The tittle says what my question is, but I'd like to precize it : after a short analysis of hindu holy Scriptures, such as Bhagavad Gita, I know a little more what is our destiny according to this belief.
    My understanding tells me that everything is impermanent in this world, except the holy purusha we all carry in our own person. Siddhartha Gautama explained the impermanence of all thing : I know he is considered as an avatara of Vishnou by hinduist tradition, so I believe his teachings are not uninteresting for an hinduist philosopher... But that's juste my hypothesis

    Waiting for your opinions !
    If you are interested in Hindu dharma then you should not learn from Buddha because he belonged to another tradition, and he represented many views contrary to the teachings of the Hindu dharma scriptures such as Vedas, Upanishads, Puranas, etc.

    Is everything impermanent?
    In fact it is not only Purusha or the Supreme Lord eternal and thus permanent, but other things are also eternal and thus permanent.

    Thus for example we living entities, jiva souls or jivas, are also eternal just as the Lord is eternal. This is said in the Bhagavad gita 15.7, see at http://vedabase.net/bg/15/7/en

    "The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal fragmental parts."

    This material world, the universe, is not eternal because it is created and is destroyed at the end, but material nature this material world is made of is one eternal nature which belongs to the Lord. So material nature is also eternal and thus permanent.
    This can be understood as follows: Sometimes the children are playing in the sand at the beach and creating sand castles, etc. Then sand castles are destroyed, and the next day the children again create new sand castles because the sand is constantly there. So the sand is permanent but the castles made of sand are impermanent.
    The material nature which is one energy of the Lord Krishna is eternal and thus permanent, and the Lord is using it over and over again to create and destroy the universe.

    The material world, the universe, is created and is destroyed over and over again during eternal time.
    So the time is also eternal.

    We learn from the Gita that Lord Krishna has his own abode which is indestructible and eternal. He resides there eternally, and liberated souls can also go there:
    http://vedabase.net/bg/18/en

    "Though engaged in all kinds of activities, My pure devotee, under My protection, reaches the eternal and imperishable abode by My grace." (Bhagavad gita 18.56, http://vedabase.net/bg/18/56/en)

    So the Lord's abode to be achieved, and which is a place of eternal liberation (mukti), is also eternal or permanent place.

    So, it is not only Purusha or the Supreme Lord eternal and thus permanent, but many other things are also eternal and thus permanent.


    regards

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    Re: Is everything impermanent ?

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by VVV View Post
    Namaste,
    The tittle says what my question is, but I'd like to precize it : after a short analysis of hindu holy Scriptures, such as Bhagavad Gita, I know a little more what is our destiny according to this belief.
    My understanding tells me that everything is impermanent in this world, except the holy purusha we all carry in our own person. Siddhartha Gautama explained the impermanence of all thing : I know he is considered as an avatara of Vishnou by hinduist tradition, so I believe his teachings are not uninteresting for an hinduist philosopher... But that's juste my hypothesis

    Waiting for your opinions !
    This is true - every 'thing' no doubt is impermanent (anitya¹). If something has a beginning it will have an end; the cause of death is birth. This then is the field of the manifest (vyāvahātika or vyakta¹). Within this field of vyakta things come and go.

    The key here is things ... a thought comes and goes, people, animals, worlds, galaxies yuga-s, all come and go. So there must be a deeper truth , beyond things, that does not come and go.
    Buddha's teachings are quite practical and the same time profound - many may miss his excellence. I am a better person for reading his works and taking some time to understand the view of Reality he brings to this earth.


    iti śiva
    words
    • anitya - not everlasting , transient , occasional , incidental
    • vyakta - caused to appear; perceptible by the senses
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  4. #4

    Re: Is everything impermanent ?

    Hi,
    "Everything is impermanent " is a self contradicting statement isn't it ? If everything is impermanent, then what about the truth value of this statement ?

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

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    Re: Is everything impermanent ?

    From what I heard, impermanence is only important in judging what is real or unreal. For example, you are dreaming a tiger is eating you. But we call that unreal because it was a dream, you woke up and it ended. If you kept experiencing that part of being eaten and it didn't end, but kept going on forever, then I suppose it would be real.

    But who would want that? Not me.

    So in one way, for me, a lot of "unreal" isn't such a bad thing. And actually your temporary body is always being eaten. It is being broken down every second. But what is interesting is, your cells for example are being replaced. In fact, I was once instructed that every single cell in your body is replaced entirely every 8 years. In other words you have an entirely new body every 8 years. But it is not the same body. It cycles into forms of a new body leading to "old body". So clockwork is there, and many are afraid. But in theory the same "program", if modified, could result in a "younger body" every 8 years.

    But you know there is something else. Because if your else isn't real, you wouldn't ask. So you know you are real. But what you may identify as yourself is the perception that changes.

    But I am only interested in the experiences, for me both the unreal, and of course the real, are the experiences that make things fun along the way. If I am real, and you are also real, that is pretty amazing yes? Two reals side by side with a lot of unreal that is "happening".

    Then I am suppose to later merge with Shiva. That is what I have been told. But personally, I am in no rush. But I sort of think, even after merging, I will still be around. Well. I am off to the East Shore of Oahu this morning, to experience some unreal and perhaps real.

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    Re: Is everything impermanent ?

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by ShivaFan View Post
    Then I am suppose to later merge with Shiva. That is what I have been told. But personally, I am in no rush. But I sort of think, even after merging, I will still be around. Well. I am off to the East Shore of Oahu this morning, to experience some unreal and perhaps real.
    I find this interesting to consider... what is there to merge ?
    We get a hint even in śiva's name... this śī is at the root of the term śiva and it is defined as 'in whom all things lie' - that is, all things are within śiva. No one is outside of Him , so where can the merging take place.

    We get a hint at the truth if we look to the pratyavbhijñāhṛdayaṁ authored by kṣemarāja-ji, a śiṣya of abhinavagupta. This word pratyabhijñāhṛdayaṁ means the re-recognition of ones Self - in this word hdya is used as ~heart~ or the inner most , most dear, and hence the Self.

    So when we say 'one is like or becomes or merges ', its real intention is the re-recognition of one's real status - that of śiva. I do not become something I already am is the premise here. What I am doing is re-membering who I am. This is the kaśmir śaivism truth and point of view on Reality itself.

    Yet we find the same in vedānta -one who knows brahman becomes brahman. The same point of view is offered. That of becoming is
    actually realizing what one is to begin with. That is why this word pratyabhijñā is so specific and applicable.

    iti śiva
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Is everything impermanent ?

    Amazing, dhanyavad Yajvan!
    I have 3 names including Hindu name, but this name is gone soon yes?

  8. #8

    Re: Is everything impermanent ?

    Pranams,

    All said phenomena is impermanent or transient, born of conditions. If there is a cause and effect it will cause phenomena, the nature of phenomena according to Lord Buddhas expressions has three characteristics or Dharmas, The Buddha taught that all beings conditioned by causes (saṅkhāra) are impermanent (anicca) and suffering (dukkhā) which are not-self (anattā).

    There is no conflict with Vedic Dharma, In fact Lord Buddha sole purpose was to re introduce the eternal lore, the way, the conscious approach and development of vidya through insight. Buddha as we all know as the historical figure, but the real meaning of Buddha is a function of consciousness, or the one who knows, the perfectly enlightened one, the awakened one. What is he enlightened and awake to, the nature of phenomena, which includes a deep study of mind and consciousness.

    On a personal level I find the teaching of impermanence very important and very helpful and calming when the material energy is giving to much pressure.

    In fact one my favourite guardian slokas of Gita is

    matra-sparsas tu kaunteya
    sitosna-sukha-duhkha-dah
    agamapayino 'nityas
    tams titiksasva bharata


    O son of Kunti, the nonpermanent appearance of happiness and distress, and their disappearance in due course, are like the appearance and disappearance of winter and summer seasons. They arise from sense perception, O scion of Bharata, and one must learn to tolerate them without being disturbed.

    I have studied Buddha Dharma and Vedic Dharma side by side, and I am in total agreement with Yavan Ji, that the study of Buddhism can enhance and enrich our understanding of our own sadhana. I would go so far as to claim that Lord Buddha taught pure Veda, but his sadhana and approach was unique and had a genious that an ordinary man could not produce.
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 31 July 2014 at 03:05 AM.

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