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Thread: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

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    The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    The History of India taught in schools and colleges in India are based on the works of anti-Hindu historians Romila Thapar and D.N.Jha. According to these pseudo-historians, only in the 8th century CE the name 'Hindu' was given currency by the Arabs. This statement is not backed by any evidence, however.

    Another theory from the Europeans states that the name 'Hindu' is a Persian corruption of 'Sindhu', resulting from the Persian practice of replacing 'S' with 'H'. Again no evidence is shown for this theory.

    Dr. Murlidhar H.Pahoja, an independent researcher, exposes the falsity of these two theories with overwhelming evidence in his booklet titled "Antiquity and Origin of the Term 'Hindu'", which can be downloaded at: http://sarasvati95.googlepages.com/antiquityhindu.pdf

    Here are the points with which he exposes the falsity of the above claims:

    Epigraphic Evidence

    • The Hamadan, Persepolis and Naqsh-I-Rustam Inscriptions of the Persian monarch Darius mention a people 'Hidu' as included in his empire. These inscriptions are dated between 520-485 BCE.

    • Xerexes, successor of Darius, in his inscriptios at Persepolis, gives names of countries under his rule. The list includes 'Hidu'. Xerexes was ruling between 485-465 BCE.

    • The Asokan inscriptions (3rd century BCE), repeatedly use expressions like 'Hida' (हिद) for 'India' and 'Hida loka' for 'Indian nation'. 'Hida' and its derivative forms are used more than 70 times in the Ashokan inscriptions.

    • In Persepolis Pahlvi inscriptions of Shahpur II (310 CE) the king has the titles shakanshah hind shakastan u tuxaristan dabiran dabir, "king of Shakastan, minister of ministers of Hind Shakastan and Tukharistan".

    Literary Evidence

    Literary evidence takes the antiquity of the word 'Hindu' back to at least 1000 BCE and possibly 5000 BCE.

    Evidence from Pahlvi Avesta

    • In the Avesta, Hapta-Hindu is used for Sanskrit Sapta-Sindhu, the Avesta being dated variously between 5000-1000 B.C. This indicates that the term 'Hindu' is as old as the word 'Sindhu'. Sindhu is a Vedik term used in the Rigveda. And therefore, 'Hindu' is as ancient as the Rigveda.

    • In the Avestan Gatha 'Shatir', 163rd Verse speaks of the visit of Veda Vyas to the court of Gustashp and in the presence of Zorashtra, Veda Vyas introduces himself saying 'man marde am Hind jijad'--I am man born in 'Hind'. Veda Vyas was an elder contemporary of Shri Krishna (3100 BCE).

    Greek Usage

    • The Greek term 'Indoi' is a softened form of 'Hindu' where the initial 'H' was dropped as the Greek alphabet has no aspirate. This term 'Indoi' was used in Greek literature by Hekataeus (late 6th century BCE) and Herodotus (early 5th century BCE).

    The Hebrew Bible

    • The Hebrew bible uses 'Hodu' for India, which is a Judaic form of 'Hindu'. The Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) is considered earlier than 300 BCE. Today's Hebrew spoken in Israel also uses Hodu for India.

    The Chinese Testimony

    • The Chinese used the term 'Hien-tu' for 'Hindu' about 100 BCE. While describing movements of the Sai-Wang (100 BCE), the Chinese annals state that the Sai-Wang went towards the South and passing Hien-tu reached Ki-Pin.

    Later Chinese travellers Fa-Hien (5th century CE) and Huen-Tsang (7th century CE) use a slightly modified term 'Yintu' but the affinity to 'Hindu' is still retained. This term 'Yintu' continues to be used till today.

    Pre-Islamic Arabic Literature

    • Sair-ul-Okul1 is an anthology of ancient Arabic poetry available in the Turkish library Makhtab-e-Sultania in Istambul. In this anthology is included a poem by Prophet Mohammed's uncle Omar-bin-e-Hassham. The poem is in praise of Mahadev (Shiva), and uses 'Hind' for India and 'Hindu' for Indians.

    • The same anthology has another poem by Labi-bin-e Akhtab bin-e Turfa who is dated 2300 before Mohammed i.e., 1700 BCE. This poem also uses 'Hind' for India and 'Hindu' for Indian. The poem also mentions the four Vedas Sama, Yajur, Rig and Athar. This poem is quoted on columns in the Laxmi Narayan Mandir in New Delhi, popularly known as Birla Mandir (Temple).

    'Hindu' in Sanskrit Literature

    Another doubt created by the modern day anglicized historian is that the term 'Hindu' is not found used in Sanskrit literature. This misconception can be dispelled by quoting from Sanskrit works:

    Meru tantra (4th to 6th century CE), a Shaiva text, comments on 'Hindu':

    hInaM cha duShyatyeva hindurityuchyate priye |
    "Hindu is one who discards the mean and the ignoble."

    • The same idea is expressed in Shabda Kalpadruma:

    hInaM duShyati iti hindu |

    Brihaspati Agama says:

    himAlayaM samArabhya yAvadindu sarovaram |
    taM devanirmitaM desha hindusthAnaM prachakShate ||


    "Starting from Himalaya up to Indu waters is this God-created country Hindustan."

    Parijat Haran Natak describes Hindu as:

    hinasti tamasA pApAn daihikAn duShTamAnasAn |
    hetibhiH shatruvarga cha sa hindurabhidhIyate ||


    "Hindu is one who with penance washes one's sins and evil thoughts and with
    arms destroys one's enemies."

    Madhava Digvijaya states:

    oMkAramUlamantrADhya punarjanmadRuDhAshayaH |
    gobhaktako bhAratagururhindurhisanadUShakaH ||


    "One who meditates on Omkar as the primeal sound, believes in karma and reincarnation, has reverence for the cow, who is devoted to Bharat, and abhors evil, is deserving of being called Hindu.

    Vriddha Smriti defines Hindu as:

    hiMsayA dUyate yashcha sadAcharaNatatpara |
    vedagopratimAsevI sa hindumukhshabdabhAk ||


    "One who abhors the mean and the ignoble, and is of noblebearing, who reveres the Veda, the cow, and the deity, is a Hindu."

    • Similarly other Sanskrit works which use the term 'Hindu' are, Kalika Puran, Bhavishya Puran, Adbhut Kosh, Medini Kosh, Ram Kosh etc. Even Kalidas has used a derivative form 'Haindava'.

    'Hindu' and 'Sindhu'

    • Another theory says that 'Hindu' originated from the Persian practice of replacing 'S' with 'H'. This does not seem to be true is evident from the fact that Sindh has not become Hind and both Sindh and Hind exist in Persian as well as Arabic. The inscriptions of Darius and Xerexes which describe India as Hi(n)du, also use the term 'Sugd' for Sogdiana. This 'Sugd' should have become 'Hugd' as per this theory. The Pahlvi inscription of Shahpur II, uses 'S' in Shakastan and Tuxaristan.

    • But it cannot be denied that Hindu is a form of Sindhu. It needs to be realised that this change from S to H is common in Saurashtra where Sorath becomes Horath, Somnath becomes Homnath and so on. The form Hindu is therefore, likely to have come from Saurashtra.

    It should also be noted that as per Nirukta rules of grammar, in the Vedik language, replacement of S with H is permitted.

    Conclusion

    Epigraphic evidence takes the antiquity of 'Hindu' back to atleast 500 B.C. Use of 'Hindu' as part of 'Hapta-Hindu' in the Avesta suggests that 'Hindu' is as old as 'Sindhu' and therefore, belongs to the Vedic age.

    Regarding the origin of 'Hindu' from 'Sindhu', the Saurashtran practice of pronouncing 'H' in place of 'S' provides the answer.

    Other Sanskrit references

    • Some scholars hold that ancient Indian civilisation did have a name of its own, prior to the arrival of Persians. A Sanskrit scholar, Swami Mangal Nathji, had found ancient Hindu writings called Birhannaradi Purana in Hoshiarpur (Punjab)[1] which contained the verse:

    Himalayam samarabhya yavat bindusarovaram
    Hindusthanamiti qyatan hi antaraksha-rayogatah


    "The country between Himalayas and Bindu Sarovar (Cape Commorin Sea) is Hindusthan derived by combining the first letter 'Hi' of Himalayas and the last compound letter 'ndu' of the word Bindu."

    Other instances are cited in Vishnu Purana, Padma Purana and the Brihaspati Samhita:

    Aaasindo sindhu paryantham yasyabharatha bhoomikah
    Mathrubhuh pithrubhoochaiva sah vai hindurithismrithaah


    "Whoever considers the land of Bharatha Bhoomi between Saptha Sindhu and the Indian Ocean as his motherland and fatherland is known as Hindu."

    From VishNu Purana, 2.3.1:

    Uttaram yat samudrasya, Himadreschaiva dakshinam |
    Varsham tad Bharatam nama Bharati yatra santatih ||


    "Bharat is the name of country situated to the north of the sea and south of the Himalayas and its progeny is known as Bharati."

  2. #2

    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    Hmm..Quite interesting facts, I had never known of this information ever. Thanks for sharing

  3. #3
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    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    Peace

    coming to the avoiding of the terms like "poor topic writer" or "stupid", im sorry. But i hope that our administrators take action against those hindus who use words like "pigs".

    And coming to the word hindu, a link has been provided. There is contradiction in that link. Firstly, it proves with irrefutable proofs that the word hindu is a geographical definition. It refers to the people of India. And contradicting itself, it presents opinions from scholars where they say that hindu is a follower of a particular religion.
    Thus, the contradiction is clear. I leave it to the readers to decide between the irrefutable proofs and the "opinions" of the scholars.

    A follower of the religion of Islam is called a muslim. Quran mentions the word "muslim" several times. I challenge everyone here to bring a verse from the Rigved, which is the most sacred book of hinduism, where it says that the word hindu is a follower of a particular religion.

    Guidance

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    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    Give me one iota of "PROOF" as to the actuality of ANY OF THE aBRAHAMIC FAITHS, not just isLAME. you believe in the myth of adam of eve, as I've explained before, could not have spread humanity unless they slept with their progeny! Therefore, all abrahamic faiths condone incest! What a great religion indeed!

    And you musLAMES think you are the most religious people on earth! hahahhaah.. if you had an ounce of RELIGION within you, there would be no conversion of others as muslims/christians do on a daily basis.

    Hindu as a follower of a religion is a modern extrapolation because now in India, there are other religions. In the times before religion was degraded (i.e. myths like judaism, christianity, and islam came about), everyone in that geography was a follower of Sanatana Dharma (HINDUISM). Therefore, anyone who lived in the subcontinet was considered HINDU.

    Remember, there are seals from the ancient cities of India that have depictions of Shiva among other deities including the Shiva Lingam. These seals date to around 5500 years ago!

    By the way, have you visited the Shiva Lingam in mecca? Hopefully soon, a nice SHIVA TEMPLE will be built on that VERY SPOT.

    And who said "RigVeda is the most sacred book of Hinduism"? We are not brain-dead like you muslims to cling on to a particular label or book and repeat what the sulla mullahs tell you. That is the beauty of Hinduism as it depends on the follower to decide what their "most sacred book/ritual/God" is. You can never understand that as a mleccha.

    Oh, and by the way, you muslims are far more idolatrous than you claim Hindus are. Proof? I can throw the Gita on the floor and step on it. Can you do that to the quran?

    Quote Originally Posted by riyaaz View Post
    Peace

    coming to the avoiding of the terms like "poor topic writer" or "stupid", im sorry. But i hope that our administrators take action against those hindus who use words like "pigs".

    And coming to the word hindu, a link has been provided. There is contradiction in that link. Firstly, it proves with irrefutable proofs that the word hindu is a geographical definition. It refers to the people of India. And contradicting itself, it presents opinions from scholars where they say that hindu is a follower of a particular religion.
    Thus, the contradiction is clear. I leave it to the readers to decide between the irrefutable proofs and the "opinions" of the scholars.

    A follower of the religion of Islam is called a muslim. Quran mentions the word "muslim" several times. I challenge everyone here to bring a verse from the Rigved, which is the most sacred book of hinduism, where it says that the word hindu is a follower of a particular religion.

    Guidance

  5. #5

    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    "And coming to the word hindu, a link has been provided. There is contradiction in that link. Firstly, it proves with irrefutable proofs that the word hindu is a geographical definition. It refers to the people of India. And contradicting itself, it presents opinions from scholars where they say that hindu is a follower of a particular religion. Thus, the contradiction is clear."
    The entire line of enquiry is preposterous. Hindustan has historically referred to a geographic location. Hence, Hindustan clearly defines a concept of Nation as per the definition of the term: "Latin: natio meaning being born."

    So clearly it is correct to say that the term Hindu refers to both a geographical location and a nationhood of related people.


    There is truth to the phrase, "America is a Christian nation." Despite the fact none of the original inhabits were Christian, nonetheless the society of America which evolved on that continent was predominantly Christian in orientation. And while America represents a democratic homogeneity of various religions, it is still predominantly Christian as per the majority culture and how that reflects in it's vote bank and policies.

    Would anyone say America is NOT a Christian nation because "America" refers to geography alone?

    Likewise, the term "Hindu" has long been associated with the religious beliefs of the people of the region of Hindustan. Let me show you an example:

    Raag Gaurhee Poorbee: Saint Kabir:
    ਤੁਰਕ ਤਰੀਕਤਿ ਜਾਨੀਐ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ॥
    thurak thareekath jaaneeai hindhoo baedh puraan ||
    The Muslim knows the Muslim way of life; the Hindu knows the Vedas and Puraanas.
    ~SGGS Ji ang 340
    So where is this invented contradiction to argue for illegitimacy of "Hindu" as either Nationality or Religion?
    Religion: < L religiōn- (s. of religiō) conscientiousness, piety, equiv. to relig(āre) to tie, fasten (re- re- + ligāre to bind, tie; cf. ligament ) + -iōn- -ion; cf. Rely.

    "A set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion
    From it's barest dictionary definition, that body of beliefs which owe their origination to the scriptures of the Vedas and Puranas, are they not a set of beliefs concerning the nature of the universe, involving ritual observances and having a code of moral conduct?

    By what default of logic can "Hinduism" be said NOT to be a religion? It is the very basis of all the world's religions because the Vedas are the oldest known religious scriptures and a case can be made illustrating an origination traceable to the Vedas as point of religious philosophy, as seen in the very definition of the name "Alla," owing origin back at least 5,000 years and referring per the Rg Veda to "Indra swaroop," and also "Amba Bhavani Mata the Jagadamba."
    "BA'AL (Hebrew:בַּעַל): Semitic name of several storm gods." http://www.20000-names.com/weather_names.htm
    Allah is a Sanskrit word. In Sanskrit Allah, Akka and Amba are synonyms. They signify a goddess or mother.The term Allah appears in Sanskrit chants while invoking goddess Durga i.e. Bhavani. The Islamic word Allah for God is therefore not an innovation but the ancient Sanskrit appellation retained and continued to be used by Islam. http://www.hinduunity.com/articles/i...micarabia.html
    "The word iḷ&#226; also occurs in the verse (1/13/9) of the Ṛgveda, that reads,

    Iḷ&#226;, sarasvat&#238; mah&#238; tisro dev&#238;rmayobhuvaḥ z
    Varhiḥ s&#238;dantasridhaḥ zz


    Iḷ&#226;, Sarasvat&#238; and Mah&#238;, three godesses who bring delight, be seated, peaceful, on the grass”. In this verse, Iḷ&#226; is a godess and, according to S&#226;yana, Iḷ&#226; in this verse may stand for earth, or cow, or v&#226;c (speech).

    In a similar manner, there is another word Al&#226; in the Ṛgveda that refers to various deities. The verse (3/30/10) contains the word and says,


    Al&#226;tṛṇo vala Indra vrajo goḥ pura hantorbhayamano by&#226;ra z
    Sugatpatho akṛṇonniraje gaḥ pr&#226;vanv&#226;ṇ&#238;ḥ purah&#251;taṃ
    dhamant&#238;ḥ zz


    “He who withheld the kine, in silence yielded in fear before thy blow, O Indra. He made paths easy to drive forth the cattle. Loud-breathing praises helped the much-invoked One” [tr: ibid]. Here, Al&#226; is the other name of Indra. The entire Hymn (3/30) has been dedicated to Indra and this confirms that the word Al&#226; in the verse refers to Indra." http://hindtoday.com/Blogs/ViewBlogs...laceCode=WORLD
    So Islam has not given the correct meaning of Allah to the world. Neither has it been honest about origination. But in fact Islam has distorted the original definitions into a radically new meaning.

    Suta Goswami said: After hearing the king’s prayers, Lord Shiva said: O king Bhojaraja, you should go to the place called Mahakakshvara, that land is called Vahika and now is being contaminated by the mlecchas. In that terrible country there no longer exists dharma. There was a mystic demon named Tripura(Tripurasura), whom I have already burnt to ashes, he has come again by the order of Bali. He has no origin but he achieved a benediction from me. His name is Mahamada(Muhammad) and his deeds are like that of a ghost. Therefore, O king, you should not go to this land of the evil ghost. By my mercy your intelligence will be purified. Hearing this the king came back to his country and Mahamada(Muhammad) came with them to the bank of the river Sindhu. He was expert in expanding illusion, so he said to the king very pleasingly: O great king, your god has become my servant. Just see, as he eats my remnants, so I will show you. http://bhavishyapuran.blogspot.com/
    According to Bhavishya Purana, Mohamed is the incarnation of Tripurasura.

    "Religion founded by Mahamada = Paisachyadharama (demoniac religion)."


    ਕਲਿ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ਕਤੇਬ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ ॥
    kal paravaan kathaeb kuraan ||
    In Kali Yuga, the Koran and the Bible have become famous.

    ਪੋਥੀ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਰਹੇ ਪੁਰਾਣ ॥
    pothhee panddith rehae puraan ||
    The Pandit's scriptures and the Puraanas are not respected.

    ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਉ ਭਇਆ ਰਹਮਾਣੁ ॥
    naanak naao bhaeiaa rehamaan ||
    O Nanak, the Lord's Name now is Rehmaan, the Merciful.

    ਕਰਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਤੂ ਏਕੋ ਜਾਣੁ ॥੭॥
    kar karathaa thoo eaeko jaan ||7||
    Know that there is only One Creator of the creation. ||7||
    ~SGGS Ji ang 903


    ਧੋਤੀ ਟਿਕਾ ਤੈ ਜਪਮਾਲੀ ਧਾਨੁ ਮਲੇਛਾਂ ਖਾਈ ॥
    dhhothee ttikaa thai japamaalee dhhaan malaeshhaan khaaee ||
    They wear their loin cloths, apply ritual frontal marks to their foreheads, and carry their rosaries, but they eat food with the Muslims.

    ਅੰਤਰਿ ਪੂਜਾ ਪੜਹਿ ਕਤੇਬਾ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਤੁਰਕਾ ਭਾਈ ॥
    anthar poojaa parrehi kathaebaa sanjam thurakaa bhaaee ||
    O Siblings of Destiny, you perform devotional worship indoors, but read the Islamic sacred texts, and adopt the Muslim way of life.

    ਛੋਡੀਲੇ ਪਾਖੰਡਾ ॥
    shhoddeelae paakhanddaa ||
    Renounce your hypocrisy!

    ਨਾਮਿ ਲਇਐ ਜਾਹਿ ਤਰੰਦਾ ॥੧॥
    naam laeiai jaahi tharandhaa ||1||
    Taking the Naam, the Name of the Lord, you shall swim across. ||1||
    ~SGGS Ji ang 471



    ਕਾਜੀ ਤੈ ਕਵਨ ਕਤੇਬ ਬਖਾਨੀ ॥
    kaajee thai kavan kathaeb bakhaanee ||
    O Qazi, which book have you read?

    ਪੜ੍ਹਤ ਗੁਨਤ ਐਸੇ ਸਭ ਮਾਰੇ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਖਬਰਿ ਨ ਜਾਨੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    parrhath gunath aisae sabh maarae kinehoon khabar n jaanee ||1|| rehaao ||
    Such scholars and students have all died, and none of them have discovered the inner meaning. ||1||Pause||

    ਸਕਤਿ ਸਨੇਹੁ ਕਰਿ ਸੁੰਨਤਿ ਕਰੀਐ ਮੈ ਨ ਬਦਉਗਾ ਭਾਈ ॥
    sakath sanaehu kar sunnath kareeai mai n badhougaa bhaaee ||
    Because of the love of woman, circumcision is done; I don't believe in it, O Siblings of Destiny.

    ਜਉ ਰੇ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਮੋਹਿ ਤੁਰਕੁ ਕਰੈਗਾ ਆਪਨ ਹੀ ਕਟਿ ਜਾਈ ॥੨॥
    jo rae khudhaae mohi thurak karaigaa aapan hee katt jaaee ||2||
    If God wished me to be a Muslim, it would be cut off by itself. ||2||

    ਸੁੰਨਤਿ ਕੀਏ ਤੁਰਕੁ ਜੇ ਹੋਇਗਾ ਅਉਰਤ ਕਾ ਕਿਆ ਕਰੀਐ ॥
    sunnath keeeae thurak jae hoeigaa aourath kaa kiaa kareeai ||
    If circumcision makes one a Muslim, then what about a woman?

    ਅਰਧ ਸਰੀਰੀ ਨਾਰਿ ਨ ਛੋਡੈ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਹੀ ਰਹੀਐ ॥੩॥
    aradhh sareeree naar n shhoddai thaa thae hindhoo hee reheeai ||3||
    She is the other half of a man's body, and she does not leave him, so he remains a Hindu. ||3||

    ਛਾਡਿ ਕਤੇਬ ਰਾਮੁ ਭਜੁ ਬਉਰੇ ਜੁਲਮ ਕਰਤ ਹੈ ਭਾਰੀ ॥
    shhaadd kathaeb raam bhaj bourae julam karath hai bhaaree ||
    Give up your holy books, and remember the Lord, you fool, and stop oppressing others so badly.

    ਕਬੀਰੈ ਪਕਰੀ ਟੇਕ ਰਾਮ ਕੀ ਤੁਰਕ ਰਹੇ ਪਚਿਹਾਰੀ ॥੪॥੮॥
    kabeerai pakaree ttaek raam kee thurak rehae pachihaaree ||4||8||
    Kabeer has grasped hold of the Lord's Support, and the Muslims have utterly failed. ||4||8||
    ~SGGS Ji ang 477

  6. #6

    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    I read much of the original post and it is interesting, but now I am confused on what is the difference between 'Hindustan,' 'India,' 'Bharat.'

  7. #7

    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    Namaste.

    I am quoting from my post in the other thread regarding Hindu/ Indu, seeing this as the most relevant thread for the topic (and not to derail that thread as Anirudha suggested there).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalicharan Tuvij View Post
    Namaste Anirudh,

    "Hindu" comes from "Indu" which stands for Soma PavamAna (Soma juice).
    RV 8.48.3 (Devata: Soma, Rsi: Kanva)
    अपा॑म । सोम॑म् । अ॒मृताः॑ । अ॒भू॒म॒ । अग॑न्म । ज्योतिः॑ । अवि॑दाम । दे॒वान् । किम् । नू॒नम् । अ॒स्मान् । कृ॒ण॒व॒त् । अरा॑ति । किम् । ऊँ॒ इति॑ । धू॒र्तिः । अ॒मृ॒त॒ । मर्त्य॑स्य ॥
    apāma | somam | amṛtāḥ | abhūma | aganma | jyotiḥ | avidāma | devān | kim | nūnam | asmān | kṛṇavat | arāti | kim | oṃ iti | dhūrtiḥ | amṛta | martyasya

    meaning: Gods exclaimed : "we have drunk Soma (Indu), we have become Immortal, of Light. Now what tricks mortal enemies can play on us (the Immortals)?"


    This rica from the Veda is very definitive of our ideals. So, whether you use Hindu or Indu, Hindustan or India, doesnt matter.
    Soma PavamAna is known as Indu, e.g.
    RV 09.113.11 (Devata: Soma PavmAna, Rsi: Kashyapa)

    यत्र॑ । आ॒न॒न्दाः । च॒ । मोदाः॑ । च॒ । मुदः॑ । प्र॒ऽमुदः॑ । आस॑ते । काम॑स्य । यत्र॑ । आ॒प्ताः । कामाः॑ । तत्र॑ । माम् । अ॒मृत॑म् । कृ॒धि॒ । इन्द्रा॑य । इ॒न्दो॒ इति॑ । परि॑ । स्र॒व॒ ॥

    yatra | ānandāḥ | ca | modāḥ | ca | mudaḥ | pra-mudaḥ | āsate | kāmasya | yatra | āptāḥ | kāmāḥ | tatra | mām | amṛtam | kṛdhi | indrāya | indo iti | pari | srava

    Make me immortal in that realm (Prithvi in this pada) where happiness and transports, where Joys and felicities combine, and longing wishes are fulfilled. Flow, Indu, flow for Indra's sake.
    From "Indu" to "Hindu" there is hardly any journey, to warrant a revolution. Indian/ Indu/ Bharatiya/ Hindu/ Hindustan/ Indus all mean the same thing in Vedic Sanskrit.

    Sindhu?
    Sindhu originally means : Ocean, Sea. SaptaSindhu (HaptaHindu) is the region near Ocean where Seven rivers (used to) end their journey. This region is known as Sindh. SaptaSindhavah (plural) means those seven rivers meeting the ocean, in the Sindh region, the leading most of whom is (was) Sarasvati (river).

    Sindhu also denotes the "Fourth" realm (see here) which equates it to the word Samudra of the Veda.

    Sindhu only later came to be identified with a river when Sarasvati started to flow into that (needs more research though).

    We also have HinduKush/ HinduKo west of Indus, and not the east of it.

    Indus:
    If we see that the Greek branch of IE is older than Avestan (the latest to migrate out of India), then "Indu" is original just as "Hindu".

    Conclusion:
    1. Hindu stands for original Indu, notwithstanding the SaptaSindhu-HaptaHindu identity.

    2. In Veda, Indu means "Soma flow"/ "Soma-river" and is related to "Indra" who intakes (as in receiving from indriya-s) the Soma through the tongue "which is Agni". Agni (the janus faced god) has these aspects: bhArata, bhArati. Agni is explicitly called bhArata in Veda. So in the Vedic understanding, bhArat and Indu are on the same level. Again, bhArata means "Indra-like" (like Arjuna is addressed as bhArata by Krishna). bhArati, on the other hand, is like goddess IlA. So in the mystical sense bhArata is the kingdom of Indra, whereas ilA-vrata is the spiritual loka hovering directly over it.

    3. Still, there is a probability that Hindu is actually from Sindhu and Sindh. But today anyway we call it Indus, India etc which sounds same as Indu (which is bhArat). So in the end, still, I don't care.

    4. bhAratendu (bhArata + indu) harishchandra is known as the "The Father of Hindi". Note that bhAratendu was a title given to him. So from the pov I am seeing all this, only makes sense.

    5. So what should we call the "Sindhu river" of today as? Actually, it is like saying "Ocean River" (i.e., that which falls into Ocean), but apart from that Sindhu should mean "Ocean" and not river, as discussed above. And there is no way of knowing what was that river called during and before the final redaction of the RgVeda (as is the case with all other rivers, too). I will go by "Indu river", as quoted from Brihaspati Agama inthe OP:
    Quote Originally Posted by saidevo View Post
    Brihaspati Agama says:
    himAlayaM samArabhya yAvadindu sarovaram |
    taM devanirmitaM desha hindusthAnaM prachakShate ||

    "Starting from Himalaya up to Indu waters is this God-created country Hindustan."
    6. Having said all this, I have no doubt that if we truly want to find the origins of Hinduism and bhArata/ India, we have to look southwards. Hopefully I will post something important on that sometime in future.
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

  8. #8

    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    Indu in Aryan Languages

    1) Indigo (English) : Greek indikon (ινδικόν), Roman indicum
    Literally, “of/ from India”. Also, indikon (and English indigo) is the Greek word for “dye”.
    That is, “dye from India”.
    On the other hand, indigo as a color is a prominent (sixth) color of Indradhanuhsa. Indra Himself is related to six (as the leader of the six loka-s of dyAvAprithvi), and also originally the lord of the sixth chakra (now it is Soma/ Indu, in Tantra). This is the mystical meaning behind indigo the color, which is the sixth color among the seven of the Indradhanusha light-spectrum. Interestingly, in the modern yoga practices the 6th chakra is shown in indigo color.

    2) Indigenous : Latin indu+gena
    Indu people (gena/jana) are the indigenous people. That is the psychological reason why the westerners christened many aboriginal races as Indians (Red Indians, West Indians, Indonesians, etc). “The Homeland”/ “Motherland” is subconsciously attached with India.

    3) Induction : Latin inducere/ induco : induce, lead in, bring in.
    Indra = Indu + ra
    Indra drinking indu denotes the receiving of spiritual intuition. “Induction” derives from that.
    This has to be seen distinct from Greek [endos], which means “within” and not “leading into”.

    4) Industry :
    industry (n.)
    late 15c., "cleverness, skill," from Old French industrie "activity; aptitude" (14c.) or directly from Latinindustria "diligence, activity, zeal," fem. of industrius "industrious, diligent," used as a noun, from early Latin indostruus "diligent," from indu "in, within" + stem of struere "to build" (see structure (n.)). Sense of "diligence, effort" is from 1530s; meaning "trade or manufacture" first recorded 1560s; that of "systematic work" is 1610s.
    The word is reflective of the Indus (Vedic) civilisation of India which was, as is commonly known, innovations and industry driven. “Indus Civilisation” can be seen thus as “Industrial Civilisation”.

    So, we have plenty there on the IE side of the story. Closer to home, I don’t see ancients were so dumb as to equate Sindh with the whole of India. Again, HinduKush/ HinduKo is more along the lines of indiko discussed earlier, and geographically as well doesn’t sit well with Sindh idea. Sindh is still there, as well as the Sindhis.

    And India of Indra and Indu is also, still here.


    Advanced readings: In RgVeda Sindhu (Ocean, Samudra) has a mystical meaning more than anything. So, even though the Ocean there is called Sindhu mahAsAgar, we very well know Sindhu means Samudra in general in even Hindi. The best picture imo (in RV thought) is this: Indu (Soma) originates from Samudra (Sindhu) and finally pours into Samudra (Sindhu) as well. Indeed, there are two Samudra-s (one above, one below) in Vedic thought. Sarasvati, too, is called in one place "sindhu-mAtA" (bahuvrihi) meaning: having Samudra (Sindhu) as Her Origin (Mother), which all sounds to be too counter-intuitive if understood in very literal terms. To continue with the Indu flow picture, when it enters into mystical dyAvAprithvi realm through the efforts of Indra, it branches out in six/seven streams each one of which finally merges into the Samudra.
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

  9. #9

    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    I am reproducing an article from here, which uses a similar approach (though I may not concur fully with some details) to buttress the fact about Indu, with the merit of been written in a simple language.

    Words Hindu, Hindosthan, Indostan, India are rooted in Sanskrit

    By Bhikhu Patel

    San Jose, CA: Niranjan Shah, in his article — Followers of knowledge or Veda are known as Hindus — published in the India Tribune dated October 24, says the origin of the word Hindu to the Persians. In his earlier article — Who is Hindu? Who is not? -published in the India Tribune dated September 28, 2002, he has given the following explanation.

    “In Hindu scriptures, the word Hindu is not to be found. It was brought into India by the Islamic invaders. The term Hindu is the Persian equivalent of the Vedic term Sindhu. The Iranians used the word Hindu to designate the river Sindhu and population around the Sindhu. The word Hindu was used outside India but was unknown within the country.”

    In his latest article, he has described “the word Hindu used for the people who lived around the Sindhu river as is generally believed, thus it is a geographic word.”

    This has been the popular theory propagating the vocal chord difficulties of the Persians in pronouncing “Sa,” mispronounced Sindhu as Hindu, which hardened up as “Ind” in Greek. The weakness of this theory is that even today, words such as Sindh, Sindhi and Sindhu are in popular use. There are names of towns in Persia itself, e.g. Susa and Shiraz. The popular example given to support mispronunciation is the Sanskrit word Soma which is mispronounced Hoama in old Persian. This may be so, however, it is generally only one syllable that is mispronounced, “So” changing to “Hoa,” and this is supported by people in Surat district who mispronounce the word Surat as Hurat. Thus Hindu should have been Hindhu, but it is not.

    Edward J. Jurji in The Great Religions of Modern World, credits the origin of the word “Hindustan” to the “moving tribesmen, who were impressed by the mighty river and called their home Hindustan, land of the rivers.” He further clarifies that “the Persian word for a river, Hindu, had become, probably in post-Vedic times, the Sanskrit “Sindhu.” India as a country was an envy of the world for its fabulous riches, advanced culture and knowledge; a country that possessed Sanskrit, a language that mesmerized the Europeans, when they realized its influence over the world languages, a whole new science of Comparative Philology came into existence; a country that provided knowledge to the world, the Greeks and the Chinese came to study at Takshila and Nalanda universities; a country whose civilization has an inbuilt civilized behavior; a country, its people, its ocean, its mountain range and its Dharm, all have a common word Hindu in their names; the origin of such a word cannot be credited to the vocal chord difficulties of the Persian.

    The Arab historians nor the European historians can be trusted when the Hindu interests are at stake. To the Arabs, the word Hindu meant a slave. Let us study the word Hindukush in which lay the explanation of the word “Hindu.” Hindukush is the name of a portion of the Himalayan mountain range, that arises in the northern parts of Afghanistan and Pakistan. As usual, the historians gave the credit for the name Hindukush to the Arabs, one of them by the name Ibn Battutah, who gave the meaning Hindu killer. The historians happened to have looked for Hindu skeletons to justify this story but found none.

    This mountain range was famous for medicinal plants that bloomed in the moonlight. The Sanskrit word “Indukush” (Hindukush) means “krupan” (leaves or grass) that grows in the moonlight.

    The European historians carried on with Ibn Battutah story and added on the Greek difficulties that changed the word Hindu to Ind, even though they knew there were names, e.g. Homer, Heraclitus and Herodotus among the Greeks. Therefore, the historians’ stories have no grounds to be believed.

    India had many visitors, among them some Chinese, who came to study Buddhism at source. One of them was Hiuen Tsang. In his travelogue, he records that “the correct pronunciation for Tien Chu (India) is Intu” which means the moon in Chinese language. He further elaborates that “the scholars from that land have brightened the world with their delightful and shining knowledge, like the moon.”

    The word Hindu did not appear in the scriptures, as distinctions among communities were not necessary. It only became necessary after the 11th century with the establishment of Islamic rule in India. As religions and communities mushroomed, the words Indu (Hindu) for the people and Industhan (Hindusthan) for their land came in vogue.

    The Greeks called the sub-continent “Ind” and its people “Indoi.” Thus, the Greek “Ind” and the Chinese “Intu” are not far out from the Sanskrit word “Indu” for the moon (Chandra). As is known to most people, India was once known as Bharatvarsh, named after a legendary Chandravanshiya King Bharat, who ruled India in the past. His people were also known as Chandravanshiya (Indiya or India).

    Thus, the origin of the name Hindu is indigenous with the Sanskrit root “Ind.” Not only that, “Ind” is the root word for Indostan, India, Indies (Indias), Indian (Indikoi), Hindu, Hindosthan and Hindustan.
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

  10. #10
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    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    It has become popular with these so called researchers to "debunk" traditionally held concepts. Often the person doing the debunking is just trying to seek attention with inconclusive evidence. These bottom feeders of academia love to say things like Hinduism/ India has never existed in the past as a religion/ country, that physical yoga was invented based on western gymnastics or that bhakti developed out of Islamic and Christian ideologies. In all these cases it is very important that we Hindus debunk the debunking.
    Last edited by Sahasranama; 19 March 2014 at 05:51 PM.

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