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Thread: Karma and disease

  1. #1
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    Karma and disease

    Hello, I was wondering why some saintly people like Ramakrishna and Ramana Maharshi died from such horrible disease though they lived a pure life, while some people indulge in unhealthly habits and remain healthly.
    I'm thinking in musicans like Keith Richards, Lemmy Kilmister and Ozzy Osbourne. Despite they all indulged in unhealthly habits such as smoking, drinking and drugs for around four decades, they're arriving at the age of 70 relatively healthly.
    They seem to have supernatural powers to defy the laws of physiology (must be a very good karma) because people who follow their lives say they should be dead now, but amazingly they aren't.

    Why such a bad karma for people who came to this world with a pure mind?
    Shouldn't the fact of being a saint be de result of good karma from past lives?
    And why such a good karma for people who don't follow the dharma?
    To indulge in vices should be the result of ignorance from past lives.

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    Re: Karma and disease

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by ale84 View Post
    Hello, I was wondering why some saintly people like Ramakrishna and Ramana Maharshi died from such horrible disease though they lived a pure life, while some people indulge in unhealthly habits and remain healthly.
    I'm thinking in musicans like Keith Richards, Lemmy Kilmister and Ozzy Osbourne. Despite they all indulged in unhealthly habits such as smoking, drinking and drugs for around four decades, they're arriving at the age of 70 relatively healthly.
    They seem to have supernatural powers to defy the laws of physiology (must be a very good karma) because people who follow their lives say they should be dead now, but amazingly they aren't.

    Why such a bad karma for people who came to this world with a pure mind?
    Shouldn't the fact of being a saint be de result of good karma from past lives?
    And why such a good karma for people who don't follow the dharma?
    To indulge in vices should be the result of ignorance from past lives.
    What you saw 'die' was not them... you saw the collection of tattva-s go back to their original condition.
    There is not 'bad karma' only the interpretation from others that an action is good or bad. This position is supported by ramaṅa mahaṛṣi .
    And where can one confirm this support ? Please consider ramaṅa mahaṛṣi's (i.e. action is jaḍa (non-conscious) writings here:
    http://www.happinessofbeing.com/rama..._nunmalai.html


    This is not entry level reading, but one needs to consider these view points with some thought and insight.

    iti śivaṁ
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Karma and disease

    Dear friends ,
    from mundane point of view , the only possible and convincing reason could be that all yogis and siddhas also were once ordinary mortals who traveled in the eternal journey of the soul . They also might have been subject to the laws of nature and laws of karma . But once self realisation occurs it is said that karmic seeds get burnt in the sense they are immune to the karma phala but not to the actual fructification of karmic deeds fully . Krishna it is said to have died because of a curse given to him, from the arrow of a nishada.The law of karma is universal . irrevocable and unavoidable but the manifestation is different .When the impact is not felt it is as good as non operational.This view of mine could be wrong but I strongly believe that .

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    Re: Karma and disease

    Hello,

    I have a hypothesis, which I tried earlier to present as a topic on its own.

    My hypothesis is that, some yogis in their past life have practiced spirituality of different forms, that weren't necessarily the most conducive to have all the chakras opened. Some people (I'm not referring to the saints in the OP) might have even done some sacrifices to Kali, some ashtanga-yoga and prana-yoga/breathing techniques instead of purely bhakti yoga. I opine that while all chakras from lowermost and highest open systematically one by one in proper bhakti-yoga, if one follows other means for spiritual ascension, this does not necessarily happen and he/she may be in Samadhi state with yet some of his lower chakras unopened. This results in sicknesses/diseases, etc.

    This is just a hypothesis.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: Karma and disease

    Vannakkam: I believe that this kind of thinking comes up because of the maya of believing this is the only life, cause it's the one we're in. But if we view karma over several lifetimes, these sorts of things are more readily understandable. See the mala, not the individual bead.

    It will all balance out in the end.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Karma and disease

    Namaste,

    We mainly attribute diseases or any form of suffering with bad karma and health and enjoyment with good karma. But is this how it is always meant to be?

    Frankly speaking none of us really knows how the Karmic cycle actually works.

    Desires and actions in previous lives shape our future lives.

    Certain psychiatrists who practice hypnotherapy and past life regression have been able to understand how actions and desires of the past shape our lives.

    I have read in a book before that a woman was feeling very anxious and stressed because she was looking after a mentally retarded child who needed constant attention.

    Conventional medications were not working for her and the psychiatrist decided to try hypnotherapy and past life regression and he managed to tap into her past life.

    In the past life this woman was an orphan brought up by her grandmother.. and grew into a rather rebellious teenager..when her grandmother was sick and ailing she did not care to look after her and the old grandmum died alone in a house and the body was found much decomposed.

    In that life before the grandmum died the grandmum used to complain that her grand daughter did not care for her and she wished her grand daughter would care more and pay attention to her.

    But the grand daughter did not care.

    Under hypnosis the anxious woman who was seeing the psychiatrist could recognize that her present life mentally retarded child was her past life grandmother.

    Since she did not care for her in that life..in this life the grandmum was born as her child so that she takes care of her.

    Now one might wonder what was the need for the grandmum to be born mentally retarded when she seemed not to sin at all in the previous birth?

    The reason was the dying desire of the grandmum that she wished her grandaugter would devote more time to her..so that desire made her take birth as a mentally retarded child..most mentally retarded children need constant attention..so her wish was fulfilled! She wanted more attention and she got it.

    After that hypnotherapy session..the patients anxiety went off because she understood the role she needed to play in this life.

    So going by that..its very hard to think that disease is because of bad deeds in any previous life.

    Diseases could also be even because of a desire which need not have been bad to start with.

    So that is the reason I guess we are asked to rid ourselves of desires..even good ones..because we have no idea what shape it will take.

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    Re: Karma and disease

    Hello, Eastern Mind

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    Vannakkam: I believe that this kind of thinking comes up because of the maya of believing this is the only life, cause it's the one we're in. But if we view karma over several lifetimes, these sorts of things are more readily understandable. See the mala, not the individual bead.

    It will all balance out in the end.

    Aum Namasivaya
    It's not about thinking "this is the only life".
    It's about why karma that caused someone to be a saint or yogi in his present life also causes him to have health problems while in other cases karma that caused someone to live in ignorance also causes him to have an extremely healthy body.

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    Re: Karma and disease

    Dear friend ,
    all those people seemingly fortunate might have done good karma , which could have got materialised now . We don't know exactly the cause ,reason , the time of fructification etc all . When seeds are thrown in to soil all the do not sprout at the same time .
    Here I want to give a story which I heard long back .There was great yogi who did much thapasya and who became a yogi of high order. A time came when he wanted to be the part of absolute parabrahman. Now there is mandatory rule that an iota of residual karma does not allow one to go like that . In the journey of inumerable lives , he put a part of balance karma in the reserve since he could afford that . He selected the brightest among his disciples and told him that he would invite the bad karma of some distant past which he kept at hold and which he would invite that now , which had to be wiped out then with out any balance . The disciple was instructed to be very patient
    and was asked to do the seva without any second thought . It was explained to him ,the bad karma would necessitate a bad temper along with a horrible disease. The disciple agreed and both of them went to Varanasi .Immediately after landing up in Varanasi ,the guru invited his bad karma and he was attacked by the worst form of leprosy.
    The disease was at the most horrible state with all cankers ,sores oozing blood and pus . The guru came in to volatile temper always finding fault with the disciple for each and everything . The disciple did the seva so patiently and lord Viswanadha got please with him and offered a boon in appreciation of his guru bhakthi . The disciple said that he did not want any personal gain but only wanted his guru to come out of that misfortune which made the guru to face the ordeal .Viswanatha gave that boon and disappeared .The sishya went running to his guru .He was wonder struck to see his his guru completely rid of the disease . But the guru was so angry that he whacked the sishya very severely saying , if that were the intention , he could have removed the karmic result and the subsequent punishment in no time . But he wanted to respect the law of karma and the law maker .Now the disciple made a big blunder and he had to start afresh the repayment process. After six months he finished the ordeal successfully and went to the plane he wanted to go , but after giving many blessings and boons to his sishya for his undaunted spirit , seva bhvana and gurubhakthi.
    This makes us to understand the importance of the law of karma and it's ramifications .It is said that the realisation of self destroys all the seeds of karma . What actually destroys is the thought of doing , but not the actual doing . 'Karma sanyasam but not karmaphala sanyasam.Just as ROME was not built in one day ,
    Ramakrishna paramhansa or Ramana maharshi or Siddhendra yogi or any other yogi are not the culminations of one life time .

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    Re: Karma and disease

    Vannakkam: I'll try again.

    Firstly, we are not our physical body. The saint or sage may have a poorly operating physical body, and an incredibly health mindy and soul body. (obviously) The non-religious person, although adharmic, may only have a healthy physical body, and a poor mind, unhealthy emotions etc. So the physical body is not necessarily related at all to a soul's advancement.

    Also, it is fairly common to hear of and believe that old souls, realised souls, can take on another's karma, so the illness might be attached to that. Of course that individual soul wouldn't notice it the way someone else would because he really knows it's just the physical body.

    Then again, not everything is karma. If you drive a car until it stops, you can't say that that's karma. It's life. Do you really expect the car to run forever? Do we really expect the physical body to run forever?

    So this healthy/unhealthy thing may not be related to karma at all.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Karma and disease

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    I find the posts above interesting... Let me pose a question. Take a rubber ball and bounce it on the ground many-many times. This is an action ( karman = action, action consisting in motion). Now inform me is this action good or bad ?
    Take this same ball and throw it against the wall ( now we're talking a vertical wall) - is this a good or a bad action ? In both cases how does one define the action ? It has a result correct ? The ball bounces back up to one's hand. Was this action good or bad ?

    Now, we take it one more step... bounce the ball again on the floor within one's apartment. The same rule applies (i.e. the laws of physics) and the ball comes back to one's hands. Yet the only difference is from the apartment owner below. S/he hears this ball bouncing again and again... to her/him it is an annoyance. To you the ball owner have no clue of this annoyance that the continued bouncing may be causing. Now tell me your thoughts: is this good or bad karma , and how do you come to your conclusions ? And who is the owner of this good-or-bad karma ?


    iti śivaṁ


    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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