Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 36

Thread: Mukthi and self-realiazation

  1. #21
    Join Date
    June 2012
    Location
    Mumbai
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,210
    Rep Power
    1364

    Re: Mukthi and self-realiazation

    Namaste,

    Quote Originally Posted by Who am i View Post

    1.In Kaivalya stage,will there be no trace of individuality (even 0.000001 ?)
    Nope

    2.While Bhagvat Gita is best non-duality scripture, why does 90% of Lord Krishna devotees follow duality based worship?( posting this as i want to know general opinion of members.My intention is not to compare both of them)
    Don't ask. This may start another vAda-yuddha. HDF has seen many in the past.

    Different acharyas interpret verses in different way, hence end up in different conclusions.

    Let people follow their tradition.

    Thanks
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  2. #22

    Re: Mukthi and self-realiazation

    Amrut

    Thanks,In that case i take back my 2nd question : )

  3. #23
    Join Date
    February 2012
    Posts
    1,525
    Rep Power
    2741

    Re: Mukthi and self-realiazation

    Namaste SF ji

    It is not propitiatory to say that vaiSNava do not like sayujya mukti. It might be a general observation. It take your word in right spirit.

    There was Meerabai who merged into bhagavAn.

    There are many vaiSNava saints and Saiva saints who are of liberal mindset. Their ISTa devatA will always be their chosen deity and they do have un- shaking faith in their chosen deity. They do not come into limelight.

    For advaita, explanation related to Brahman and mukti is difficult because words can be intepreted in different ways.

    The word 'merging' would mean an act of dissolving, which technically does not happen. It's difficult to explain. Taking in right spirit, we can understand what does it mean from advaita POV. But if we think that a soul, individual identity), actually merges in the body of a personal deity like caturbhUja viShNu then thing is different.

    In advaita at any point of time,

    You CANNOT negate your own self.
    You CANNOT become non-existent.
    There is no death of individual soul. Hence we speak of jIva being 'wrong notion'.

    So advaita begins with the search of Self. It is an inner journey. Until the true nature is realized, we are still in duality and in vyavahArika plane. So tiny jIva with limited adjuncts and the dual world is existent for us. But, there is a conscious effort to know the true nature.

    Something merges, something is destroyed, shows an act, a transformation, which advaita does not accept. But under ignorance, advaita does accept mAyA and this world as relative reality.

    Since GYAna is not opposite to relative reality, relative reality is not negated after Self Realization. World appears as Brahman In simple words, world appears, but GYAnI knows that duality is illusion and in reality only Brahman only exist.

    e.g. we experience sun veiled (covered) by clouds, but we know that sun is never veiled by clouds

    e.g. we see horizon, meeting of earth and sky, but still we know the reality

    Only avidyA is negated by GYAna, as they are opposite to each other. Knowledge and ignorance are of opposite nature.

    avidyA mAyA is gone, but vidyA mAyA remains. If we do not consider this, then jIvanmukti cannot be explained. After prArabhdha is finished, body drops, one attains videh mukti, now there is no experience other than the Self / Brahman.

    In simple words, jIva shruShTi is destroyed (within mind). ISvara shruShTi remains after GYAna.

    Hari OM
    Namaste Amrut,

    A volume of rich and valuable material here that clarifies merging. We appreciate it!

    The Tejobindu Upanishad notes Jivanmukti and Videha mukti (which you note), do you have comments on that?

    Thank you!

    Om Namah Sivaya

  4. #24
    Join Date
    June 2012
    Location
    Mumbai
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,210
    Rep Power
    1364

    Re: Mukthi and self-realiazation

    Quote Originally Posted by ShivaFan View Post
    Namaste Amrut,

    A volume of rich and valuable material here that clarifies merging. We appreciate it!

    The Tejobindu Upanishad notes Jivanmukti and Videha mukti (which you note), do you have comments on that?

    Thank you!

    Om Namah Sivaya
    Namaste SF ji,

    I have collected verses related to jivanmukta and videh mukta here

    They are found in fourth chapter. Astrojyoti link

    Technically there is no difference between a jivanmukta and videhmukta.

    The only difference is the presence of physical body.

    What I have understood is that all the verses talk about maun, which is atma sthiti

    Some differences are

    Jivan mukta

    30(b)-31. He is said to be a Jivanmukta who cognises: ‘I am Brahman alone, I am Chit alone, I am the supreme’. No doubt need be entertained about this; ‘I am Hamsa itself, I remain of my own will, I can see myself through myself, I reign happy in the kingdom of Atman and enjoy in myself the bliss of my own Atman’.

    videha mukta

    34-37. He is a Videhamukta who remains in Chinmatra alone without (even) thinking thus: ‘I am all Atman, the Atman that is equal (or the same) in all, the pure, without one, the non-dual, the all, the self only, the birthless and the deathless – I am myself the undecaying Atman that is the object aimed at, the sporting, the silent, the blissful, the beloved and the bondless salvation – I am Brahman alone – I am Chit alone’.

    38. He is a Videhamukta who having abandoned the thought: ‘I alone am the Brahman’ is filled with bliss.


    videha mukti is about ajAta vAda, while jivan mukti is about vivarta vAda and neti-neti.

    This difference between two is due to the fact that a jivan mukta is still in the physical body and so tries to explain mukti, while in case of videha mukti, he does not make an attempt to explain mukti

    A jivan mukta will negate everything and say, I am Brahman.
    A videha mukta will not even say - I am Brahman.

    According to Sri Ramana Maharshi, there is no difference in experience of the internal state

    OM
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  5. #25
    Join Date
    June 2013
    Location
    Maharashtra
    Posts
    570
    Rep Power
    1125

    Re: Mukthi and self-realiazation

    Quote Originally Posted by Amrut View Post
    Namaste,
    Different acharyas interpret verses in different way, hence end up in different conclusions.

    Thanks
    I don't think so. Interpreting should be in line with translating verses as it is, otherwise it becomes a distortion. Bhagavata purana verses are crystal clear indicating unity of Atma & brahman.... Bhagavata purana is all about Advaita Bhakti focusing on Nirguna Krishna and sometimes on Saguna Krishna especially in 10th skandha.... Remember Krishna himself says " Such a realised person is himself a complete Brahman like me" Bhagavata purana teaches us to worship Hari as one's own Atma and as Nirakara Brahman. Shukadeva's last words to Parikshita - " You yourself is the god of all. You yourself is that supreme abode. You yourself is that Brahman. You should always see your self as one with this universe & brahman" That's the theme of Bhagavata purana. In the end Shukadeva teaches topmost Bhakti of Krishna which is none other than Nirguna Bhakti - Advaitian Vaishnawism.

    Shri Krishna himself was an ideal Advaitian. Because in the chapter "Krishna's everyday life" it is said that Krishna used to meditate on Atma. He used to chant Gayatri mantra and worship all gods as one with his self.

    Govinda Govinda...
    Last edited by hinduism♥krishna; 29 April 2014 at 12:19 AM.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    June 2012
    Location
    Mumbai
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,210
    Rep Power
    1364

    Re: Mukthi and self-realiazation

    HLK, I know you strongly believe in advaita and so do I. But what vaishnav acharyas have interpreted have interpreted. What can I do? There is also Abhinavgupta who has interpreted Gita.

    Hari OM
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  7. #27

    Re: Mukthi and self-realiazation

    Namaste all

    Namaste HLk:
    My name is in pali language, it means the knower ot the worlds.

    Yes you are.right. all is only brahman. In front of brahman, there is no maya, no bondage, no mukti, no teacher, no student. Only consciousness.


    In front of gold there is no golden ring, etc.
    Maya's nature can only be maya or mithya also..
    Maya and brahman are not in the same ontological order.
    Maya cannot exist separate from brahman, brhman can exist indepedently

    Maya is the power which make gold as though becoming golden ring. Gold never becomes ring since beginning, now or in the future. Only gold exist

    If the effect is only mithya then.the.power is also mithya.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    71
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    223

    Re: Mukthi and self-realiazation

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté
    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    Let me ask this to the esteemed HDF reader... why is the advaitin term used ? One will immediately say, yajvan it means 'not two'. Those that follow the not-two ( non-dual) philosophy.

    Yes, this we know... why not just say eva-itin ? ( eva = one ) - or those that follow the philosophy of the 'one'.

    Why even bring in the notion of 'not two' - why mention two ?
    I thought to offer some ideas on this... note this is a bit more subtler and some may or may not get it, and that is fine.

    The term advaitin is aligned to advaita. This advaita = a+dvaita.
    • a = a prefix having negative or contrary sense ; we think of it as 'not'
    • dvaita = duplicity or duality. We see within this word dva which comes from its original stem of dvi = 2 .
      Yet if we look just one more letter down we see the sound from 'd' and is sounded as 'da'.
    It is this 'da' that gives a deeper meaning. This 'da' means giving or producing. Its 3rd derivative is defined as 'the act of cutting off'. Herein lies the beauty. The notion of a+dvaita now takes on
    the defintion of not + cut off , or not + divided.
    See the sight difference ? Sure advaita can be seen as not two, but it is more richly looked at as 'not divided' without division, wholeness.

    Let's go just a bit deeper... I offered
    eva-itin ? ( eva = one ) - or those that follow the philosophy of the 'one'

    We are told when you have lost the concept of 'two', 'one' also goes. Why so ? Because there is no other to have a relationship with to count and consider you are one. 'One' can only exist if there is two or more. So if this multiplicity is no more, then 'one' also goes.

    Is there any support for this ? If we look to the 3rd chapter, 18th śloka of the avadhūta gīta¹ it suggests the following:

    nirbhinna-binna-rahitaṁ paramārtha-tattvaṁ
    antar bahir na hi kathaṁ paramārtha tattvaṁ |
    prāk saṃbhavaṁ na ca rataṁ na hi vastu kiñcit
    jñānāmṛtaṁ samarasaṁ gaganopam'ham ||

    Let me just take a few words from this to point-out the idea...
    It says that the true real state (tattva = true/reality) of the Supreme (paramārtha) or highest whole truth is without (rahitaṁ = without or free from) division or interruption (nirbhinna = nir = nis = without + bhinna = division or interruption) or division (binna).

    Let's just stop here for this is a mouthful. We need to look at two words again to crack the code:
    • nirbhinna can mean undivided suggesting unity of divisions
    • bhinna -does not cause us any consternation here, as it it means division, variety or multiplicity - but it is key to look at the term interruption.
    We come to the insight that this paramārtha is so whole, so full, it is completely beyond any word... it is complete, whole and non-interrupted. The word for this non-interrupted is satatoditam = satata + udita :
    • satata = perpetual , continual , uninterrupted
    • udita = being high above, elevated
    So, what is my point to offer ? Even considering that this paramārtha is ~one~, it suggests the notion of unity and variety, and by this insight , it is even beyond ( completely without) this also.

    It is a finer point but it then applauds the wisdom offered by those fully realized beings who offer the name of advaita ( a+dvaita) as most apropos term that gets one closer to the truth.

    iti śivaṁ

    1. authored by dattātreya-ji, the great sage.
    avadhūta = a + va + dhū + ta - one who has shaken off worldly obligation
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  9. #29

    Re: Mukthi and self-realiazation

    Quote Originally Posted by karthik View Post
    Because there are souls and God.Advaitians believe we become godlike at mukthi but dvaitians dont.
    Namaste,

    So, if I read this carefully...

    There are
    1] souls
    2] God

    Advaitins believe :
    "WE BECOME GOD-LIKE "

    But not God ? So there is still
    1] us
    2] God

    where is the advaita?

    om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  10. #30

    Re: Mukthi and self-realiazation

    || Om namo bhgavate vAsudevAya ||

    I shall merely share some experience, putting aside the cyclic act of trying to 'crack the shAstra code' via buddhi (intellect).

    This morning this person was gone. lost. dissolved. 'Someone' was feeling really deeply restful, relaxed. But it was not an active intellect-level observation. There was no one (no buddhi or manas) around to contest "Wait, keep holding ShyAm's hand" because this 'someone' knows there is no seperation of Shri KRshNa and I. I is VAsudev. I is me.

    Last evening this same 'someone' came singing KRshNa's bhajan on the bus. Just softly, but there was one man who kept staring. Although the awareness of this external man had entered the consciousness, it did not trigger any thought or action or attitude. So the world was seen, but with some indifference, only intervening (or coming to surface) when necessary.

    A few hours before that the same 'someone' was engrossed in vyavahAric world and nobody noticed that this 'someone' is 'TWO IN ONE' (ShyAm and me) , but this was subconscious.

    But the same day in the morning on the bus, the 'someone' was actively 'TWO' and interacting internally with ShyAmsundar as always, and again no one had a clue they are 'TWO IN ONE'.

    At all these times, the sAkshi inside, that 'someone', was peacefully in love with everyone, and free to be none or one and free to be two whenever they were two. Is this state constant (achala) - like it is for Achyuta (KRshNa) ? We don't know.

    For all practical purposes, this is advaita dear friends. At the very same time this IS bhAgvat dharma or vaishNav dharma.

    You are free to be the police and find faults. OR
    You are free to love everyone and everything either consciously or subconsciously or superconsciously ; either actively or passively ; either with difference or indifferently ; either caring about the protocols or not.

    'Someone' does not worry about when to do what because 'someone' has handed these controls and keys back to the beautiful Lotus Eyed ShyAm - your AtmA within. He keeps His shAstric promises.

    This is the key apparently: Just let go. Don't try to control the world.

    govindAya namo namah
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •