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Thread: Vishnu talks with her Mother Devhuti [Bhagavata Purana]

  1. #11

    Re: Vishnu talks with her Mother Devhuti [Bhagavata Purana]

    Pranams Amrut,

    Advaita also accepts both saguNa brahman and nirguNa brahman and advaita is not just theory, it is practically applicable
    I agree, so why would there be a bias at some point to over emphasize the nirguna, this is not in line with shastra. Both are existing, so advaita is also an absolute truth.

    In case of aham brahmasmi, it is I am Brahman. Here Brahman is not soul, it is Brahman

    The word soul being used and spiritual in the English translation of sanskrit is only to be understood in conventional language. Soul we can mean by essence, everything has the essence of Brahman, jiva essence is brahman, so it is just the same way that the word soul is used in this context. Some say original nature, its not worth getting to tied up over linguistics, a little bit of common sense in language solves it. So when soul is being mentioned it just simple means Brahman, but expressed in English, the meaning is the same, it should not be complicated.

    Since this thread is in advaita forum, so I think we can freely discuss shastras from advaita POV
    I agree and if my comments seem confrontational thats is not my intent, if i say things out of place please excuse me, but part of the thread does mention, and more specifically directed towards gaudiya vaishnava siddhanta that prem bhakti is somehow lesser than Brahman.

    If we take away denomination and sectarianism then surely bias is not at factor in our search for absolute truth, unless sectarianism is the true purport of Veda and Vedanta.

    Dvaita is progressive philosophy that ultimately leads to the perfect balance of dvaita and advaita, this is the philosophy of Sri Chaitanya, no extremes....

    Understanding other siddhanta specially when we have done some amount of self study in our siddhanta is not that easy
    Very important point, and i am so happy that you have mentioned this. This is why the reaction of some vaishnavas are not so favourable to the conclusion given to our siddhanta when in fact they dont know the actual meaning.

    I would like to learn more real advaita, but the problem is some advaitists are not rue brahmavadis, they comment according their understanding of the context of advaita and send that view to another sampradaya, this to me is total lack of integrity. But its Kali Yuga, what to do.....


    Philosophical disagreements may be there, but we fight with none. Advaitin is at peace with all, fights none
    I agree and have experienced personal insult on this forum in both public and private messages. So I agree that a true advaitist does not insult a person. So that narrows things better.

    Rising beyond mAya means to rise above names and forms and experience oneself as completeness, peace, bliss, but not separately. Here Isvara exists as pure consciousness, Brahman.
    Could not agree more, but in shastra form is also understood to have absolute attributes, so form of conditioned phenomena is one thing and svarupa is also above maya, in what i can gather the word form guna is one thing and the form of the svarupa is something entirely different, vishnu tattva is known as the sat cit ananda vigraha.

    We are now in the state of duality as it says in Gita that phenomena or material energy has influenced to the jiva under the energy of maya to divide.

    If I read advaita and it goes deeply into veda to describe the wonders of Brahman as the non dual, I feel I can learn so much about a different aspect and teaching of the great vedas. When another tradition projects its purports onto another tradition obviously the context is lost, I say that about Advaitists, gaudiya and any other branch of studying the absolute.

    Brahman is not opulence of the lord. Srila Prabhupada has twisted words of Adi Sankara in his purports.

    Could you explain that some more please, just so I know what you are referring to.

    We accept ISvara and he is unlimited, but with name and form. In nirvikalp samAdhi, one does not experience anything, but himself, as non-dual atman / brahman.
    In many places in Veda it is described like this, but in other parts Brahman all inclusiveness can also incorporate rasa, this requires more than one, but at the same time that one is not divided, its only our material conception that says one cannot be divided. The absolute oneness can have variety.

    I know my guru deva wanted to start a university in India for the complete non biased study of sanskrit, science, philosophy, veda to be built. Something similiar to nalanda monastery.

    I would like a more deeper insight in advaita, but its polluted with anti personalism, and in the same light I am not so enthused about the anti advaita argument by some personalists vaishanvas.

    But in the age of kali this is almost impossible because people prefer bias to truth.

    Ys

    Md

    .

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    Re: Vishnu talks with her Mother Devhuti [Bhagavata Purana]

    Namaste Amrut ji..

    I think In our life, we should ignore those persons who see Brahman as form or who see duality in Brahman. Because if we discuss with them we'll get down to their lower level. Everything with them is futile as they can't understand even a bit of Brahman. They don't know what's BrahmaVidya. They have not only divided jiva and Ishwara but also Krishna from vishnu. Dividing Vishnu is a great sin. I can't tolerate such insultations to Vishnu. What can we say about them?
    Last edited by hinduism♥krishna; 05 July 2014 at 10:57 AM.

  3. #13

    Re: Vishnu talks with her Mother Devhuti [Bhagavata Purana]

    Firstly Hindu

    You have some problems in reading because you have filters of bias covering your eyes


    who see Brahman as form or who see duality in Brahmann
    Whose see's duality Brahman, I have never heard such a thing, first time for everything.

    Duality is Phenomena, but the energy of phenomena is acintya bed abeda.

    I could go on but your bias is very boring and lacks integrity....

    they have not only divided jiva and Ishwara but also Krishna from vishnu.
    Never once have I said anything remotely close to that.

    Again proves your bias, now I can understand why you cant follow the siddhanta of Veda and Vedanta. All you have revealed is your lack of comprehension skills, so by this evidence of poor comprehension you have ruled out any validity in being an authority on shastra.

    Is this really the standard of HDF ?





    Ys

    Md

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    Re: Vishnu talks with her Mother Devhuti [Bhagavata Purana]

    Markandeya ji..
    Would you please stop trolling my thread? I've started this thread to discuss advaita philosophy of Bhagavata. If you still wanna say here something, you can post explanations of the verses mentioned in thread. According to you, I'm immature and have a biased philosophy. You also said that my thread has no standard. Okay, go on. Explain those verses. If you don't, I know what should I assume.

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    Re: Vishnu talks with her Mother Devhuti [Bhagavata Purana]

    Dear hinduismkrishna
    I am amazed by the vast amount of real knowledge that you have. Please try to preach this real dharma about the real vishnu and i am sure Lord vishnu will bless you. It is another thing whenever you try to preach reality you will encounter evil trying to brainwash you into irreligious philosophy. Calling vishnu seperate or dividing Him was the sin Hiranyakashipu did. He thought Visnu stayed in vaikunta and not in the pillar and ended up destroying himself. Likewise all the devils with their scant knowledge of the self would try to brainwash you as their goal is not enlightenment but to win an argument and that too with the least amount of intelligence,. Despite telling a frog that the ocean is higher it would end up thinking its well is the highest,
    You should never argue with a brainwashed person as he will also try to pull you down to his level and intelligent talk is the last of the priorities for him. Goodluck stay strong

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    Re: Vishnu talks with her Mother Devhuti [Bhagavata Purana]

    Pranam MD

    Quote Originally Posted by markandeya 108 dasa View Post
    Pranams

    Firstly to become an expert one has to know shastra in full, not just take parts to fit into ones own view.

    Md

    Sadly this is true for just about most off us to prove a point at the expense of true study of shastra to gain knowledge of supreme truth.

    [Quote]
    Also one has to learn shastra from a bona fide spiritual master, as explained in Gita. [\Quote]

    How does one know a bona fide spiritual master, where in Bagvat Gita this is explained?

    Perhaps you be kind enough to answer this in a separate new thread, so as not to pollute this one, preferably in a Hindu forum so that everyone can take part.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

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    Re: Vishnu talks with her Mother Devhuti [Bhagavata Purana]

    Namaste, Advaitian Vaishnawas..

    Here's something truth about Bhakti of Vishnu. Upanishads prescribes worship of Bhagavan in Advaita way only.

    Now we'll see some verses from Shruti & Smruti to know what exactly is the nature of real Bhakti of Vishnu .

    "That is my Atma. In this way one should worship God" ( B. U. 2.5.19)

    Dvaitians are insulted here in these verses.

    " Those who worship God thinking I'm another, he's another, doesn't know. He's like an animal " ( B.U. 1.4.10 )

    " All insults those who see the self different from everything " (B.U. 2.4.6)

    " Samata (Oneness) alone is the true worship of Vishnu" ( Vishnu Purana 1.17.90)

    " This world is the manifestation of SarvaBhuta Vishnu. So Dnyani should see this world or Vishnu indifferent from the self" ( Vishnu Purana 1.17.84 )


    Such are the verses establishing real Vaishnawism which is Advatian Vaishnawism.
    Hari On!

  8. #18

    Re: Vishnu talks with her Mother Devhuti [Bhagavata Purana]

    Pranams Ganeshprasad

    Perhaps you be kind enough to answer this in a separate new thread, so as not to pollute this one, preferably in a Hindu forum so that everyone can take part.
    I don't see the point really. I thought true Hinduism was more open minded, it seems that if one cannot accept advaita Vedanta as the sole truth of everything then he is in maya.

    Strange that most fundamental scriptural fanatics of every religion is the same.

    I find it all so boring in comparison to true practice of sadhana. I dont care for any version of sectarianism, and the more i live the i see that Kali Yuga is not the time for discussion of Dharma, unless in the private association of good sangha, which is rare to find.


    Its time for personal bhajan, with peace and leave the scraps to crows.

    Ys

    Md

  9. #19
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    Re: Vishnu talks with her Mother Devhuti [Bhagavata Purana]

    Quote Originally Posted by markandeya 108 dasa View Post
    Pranams Amrut,


    I agree, so why would there be a bias at some point to over emphasize the nirguna, this is not in line with shastra. Both are existing, so advaita is also an absolute truth.
    Pranams MD,

    See, in philosophical debates or say polemical debates, vidvAn-s are more concerned about the final state i.e. the final position of jIva w.r.t to ISvara or brahman. Advaita by it's very nature negates duality. Advaita accepts duality, infact it presumes duality. All 4 mahAvAkya-s and the famous brahma-satya-jagat-mithyA also contains dvaita as vAcyArtha.

    One needs to say - jIva and Brahman (see there are two identities) are same because one naturally experiences duality. Hence in debates, everything is negated except brahman and so we get an impression that advaitins consider this world as an illusion from day one. This world and everything is projected as negative and not as reality. However, the path of meditation is different than these debates. Here we accept the duality, we accept the jIva bhAva (thats why Adi Sankara says jIva is brahman). But very next moment we question our presumption. Are you jIva? who am I? what you think you are not. This jIva is not jIva but brahman, this is the laxyArtha of advaita statements. It is a search, inner exploration of our true self and throughout our sAdhanA, we remain unchanged as consciousness. A am a practising advaitin. I can tell from my own experience that after ISvara gives you experience of detachment, i.e. you see your own body like a camera kept on top-behind, the whole perception is changed. Once, I was riding my bike and something happen for a second, all went blank and the next moment, I saw (from top) that I myself was riding my bike, that too in a rash way, always in a hurry to over take , those were college days. I used to accelerate, and if some vehicle was approaching from front, I would apply brakes, and come behind the presiding vehicle. All this kept happening and I kept seeing. So that question is - if I am riding than who is observing me? So I am something different from BMI complex. Like this when you have experiences, you realize that everytime the observer is the same, it does not change until the object of observation completely vanishes and everything dissolves into oneness. After you return, you are soaked in deep peace, and bliss that you have never experienced. This bliss and peace is a fruit of vairAGYa.

    Ok, I may have drifted too much, lets get on track.

    The path of meditation and practical application including applying 'mithyA' and side-by-side living a practical life cannot be explained here. You need to sit at the feet of a Guru.


    The word soul being used and spiritual in the English translation of sanskrit is only to be understood in conventional language. Soul we can mean by essence, everything has the essence of Brahman, jiva essence is brahman, so it is just the same way that the word soul is used in this context. Some say original nature, its not worth getting to tied up over linguistics, a little bit of common sense in language solves it. So when soul is being mentioned it just simple means Brahman, but expressed in English, the meaning is the same, it should not be complicated.
    I understand. All I say is that part and whole concept is not accepted by advaitins. Again, ISvara is different from brahman. We do not say, I am ISvara, we realize, I am brahman. We DO NOT become Brahman.


    I agree and if my comments seem confrontational thats is not my intent, if i say things out of place please excuse me, but part of the thread does mention, and more specifically directed towards gaudiya vaishnava siddhanta that prem bhakti is somehow lesser than Brahman.
    Whatever one says, it is according to his/her understanding. We will always keep our path as supreme. The point being that it is said only and only with intention to rise a ready disciple above it.

    When you do not give importance to anything ,mind will not accept it. This is the nature of mind. So if I say, saguNa upAsanA is inferior, but still you do it, you wont do it, but if I say, saguNa upAsanA is the best, it is recomended for kali yuga, then mind will accept it and you will be mentally prepared to do bhakti. In the same way, if I say, 'worshipping idols, does not help, names and forms are illusion, etc', it is an instruction only and only for very advanced seeker and said with the intention of rising him above mAyA, as nirvikalp samAdhi is the final goal. The problem comes when immature disciples or devotees will pick up this words and then blow them out of context. Thats why SAstra-s should not be tossed in the wild, on net.

    Dvaita is progressive philosophy that ultimately leads to the perfect balance of dvaita and advaita, this is the philosophy of Sri Chaitanya, no extremes....
    Even in advaita, there is no extreme. There is conscious step-by-step uplifting of disciple. Updesha-s are not brahma-vAkya. they are not lines carved on stone. They are only applicable to a particular devotee, that too taking into consideration his present mental status, his nature, circumstances, etc. After 6 months, same guru will say something totally contradictory to the earlier updesha. Both are true, but not at a same time for same person.

    Like all paths, advaita is totally dependent upon grace. We chant OM and after some practice and attaining certain inner purity, this primordial sound continues upon itself. I do not need to chant it. All I have to do is to keep listening it and try to find it's source. Like we reach to ocean by moving in the direction of sound of waves, one can merge in brahman by going to source of mantra. But not all can do this, as there are too many thoughts.

    No one says, I did this all alone. Wise will always say, by direct experience, that all I did was surrendered and rest was done by someone else and I as an individual have no role in it. The Real Self is waiting for us and it is this Self that establishes mind in heart and we are not capable to do anything.


    I would like to learn more real advaita, but the problem is some advaitists are not rue brahmavadis, they comment according their understanding of the context of advaita and send that view to another sampradaya, this to me is total lack of integrity. But its Kali Yuga, what to do.....
    While I am not an expert, I have tried to explain advaita here


    I agree and have experienced personal insult on this forum in both public and private messages. So I agree that a true advaitist does not insult a person. So that narrows things better.
    The very nature of sAdhanA is to neutralize emotions, likes and dislikes. WE stay neutral to them. Hence if we keep watering negative emotions, they will hinder our own progress, as Lord buddha says, 'Anger is like holding red hot coal with the intent of throwing at others'

    Could not agree more, but in shastra form is also understood to have absolute attributes, so form of conditioned phenomena is one thing and svarupa is also above maya, in what i can gather the word form guna is one thing and the form of the svarupa is something entirely different, vishnu tattva is known as the sat cit ananda vigraha.
    This is sampradAya specific. Better stick to our own path.

    If I read advaita and it goes deeply into veda to describe the wonders of Brahman as the non dual, I feel I can learn so much about a different aspect and teaching of the great vedas. When another tradition projects its purports onto another tradition obviously the context is lost, I say that about Advaitists, gaudiya and any other branch of studying the absolute.
    True. For curiosity, you can try to understand advaita to an extend that it may remove negative feelings or simply surrender all negative feelings ot krishna. Let Krishna take care of you, pray to him to show you correct way and give what is best for you and be open. After that I do not think you will have to make conscious effort to learn advaita.

    Better be engaged in krishna bhakti.


    Could you explain that some more please, just so I know what you are referring to.
    Brahman is something that is beyond attributes. We take nirguna literally and not as something that is free of durguNa. Please visit my website and you can get a clear picture.


    I know my guru deva wanted to start a university in India for the complete non biased study of sanskrit, science, philosophy, veda to be built. Something similiar to nalanda monastery.
    If God wishes it will happen.

    Hari OM
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  10. #20
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    Re: Vishnu talks with her Mother Devhuti [Bhagavata Purana]

    Quote Originally Posted by markandeya 108 dasa View Post



    I don't see the point really. I thought true Hinduism was more open minded,
    Off course it is, what makes you think otherwise, is it because people here have views that defers from yours?

    it seems that if one cannot accept advaita Vedanta as the sole truth of everything then he is in maya.
    I my self do not follow advaita, I have never been made to feel that I am in maya, although I am not immune from it, it is the place we choose to live in.


    Strange that most fundamental scriptural fanatics of every religion is the same.
    I think you are being very unkind to people here, is it because you are being challenged here and not having your way!!
    Besides there is no need to equate other so called religion with the way of life that is Hindu Dharma. It is not important that what darsan one have in mind the emphasis is will always be Dharma Acharan.

    I find it all so boring in comparison to true practice of sadhana. I dont care for any version of sectarianism, and the more i live the i see that Kali Yuga is not the time for discussion of Dharma, unless in the private association of good sangha, which is rare to find.
    I see a cope out, we should also learn to look in the mirror, Kali Yuga is an excuse not worth hiding behind, Dharma should always be discussed and above all followed.


    Its time for personal bhajan, with peace and leave the scraps to crows.

    Ys

    Md
    This does not befit an aspiring devotee

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

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