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Thread: Suitable Scripture

  1. #31
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    Re: Suitable Scripture

    Namaste
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaskaran Singh View Post
    namaskAram,

    Well, parameshwara/paramesha means greatest lord or supreme lord (since endings of -अम are generally superlative whereas endings of -अर are comparative, compare with अधर [low] and अधम [lowest]). In this sense, although the nAradIya purANam is sAttvika, are you not going against the tAratamya of madhva?

    This is what he says in the shrI mahAbhAratatAtparyanirNayaH:

    सर्वज्ञ ईश्वरतमः स च सर्वशक्तिः पूर्णाव्ययात्म बलचित्सुखवीर्यसारः।
    यस्याऽज्ञया रहितमिन्दिरया समेतं ब्रह्मेशपूर्वकमिदं नतु कस्य चेशम्॥१३॥

    Notice that it says of bhagavAn that deprived of his command (यस्याऽज्ञया रहितम्), even if maintained by indirA (shrI/lakShmI), brahmA, and Isha (shiva) and all these others (sametaM) (इन्दिरया समेतं ब्रह्मेश) with this [universe] (पूर्वकमिदं), it still cannot do anything (नतु कस्य चेशम्); madhva's opinions are not authoritative for me, but I believe you've said multiple times that you are a gauDIya. This technically makes you linked to the mAdhvasampradAya, no? How would you reconcile the fact that madhva doesn't seem to believe in shiva as parameshvara and makes a clear distinction between shiva and mahAviShNu with your above quoted shlokam?
    I do not belong to any sampradaya, but that's not the point here. The point is that Gaudiya vaishnavas distinguish between the two forms of Lord Shiva. They are different because one of them is guna avatara Lord Shiva (he is one of 3 gods: Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva), and is a jiva, while the other Lord Shiva (usually called Lord Sadāśiva) is identical to Lord Vishnu, is Vishnu tattva, and thus he is not a jiva!

    We had a discussion about it here on HDF, see explanation given by Gaudiya vaishnava acarya Sanatana Gosvami:
    http://hindudharmaforums.com/showthr...8267#post98267

    Gaudiya vaishnavas and Madhvacarya vaishnavas differ in some philosophical conclusions (siddhanta). Thus, it appears that Madhva did not recognize the difference between the two different forms of Lord Shiva. Actually I'm not very familiar with his stance so that I do not know exactly what he said about Lord Sadasiva.
    In fact it seems to me that Gaudiya vaishnavas are the only vaishnava tradition that recognizes the existence of two different forms of Lord Shiva, one (Lord Sadasiva) is superior to the other (guna avatara Lord Shiva). It seems that all other vaishnava sampradayas think that there is only one form of Lord Shiva, and that one is guna avatara Lord Shiva. For this reason they each text where the description of Lord Shiva appears interpreted either

    1) as referring to guna avatara Lord Shiva who is inferior to the Lord Vishnu, if the text describes him as inferior to the Lord Vishnu
    or
    2) as referring to Lord Vishnu (Narasimha, etc) if the text describes him as the god who possesses superior characteristics that are identical to those owned by Lord Vishnu,

    but Gaudiya vaishnavas would say that it should not be so because sometimes in the texts of Vedas, Upanishads, Puranas, etc, word "Shiva" refers to Lord Shiva who is a jiva soul, and sometimes it refers to Lord Shiva who is identical to Lord Vishnu, ie Lord Sadasiva who is Vishnu tattva, and thus not a jiva!

    I heard that the difference between the two different forms of Lord Shiva is recognized in some Shaiva traditions also. It is said that Appayya Dikshita also recognized this difference between the two forms of Lord Shiva.


    regards

  2. #32
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    Smile Re: Suitable Scripture

    Namaste!
    I don't understand the jaskaran singh ji's post where he says lord shiva as jiva, as I think my mobile only allows english font hence most of the post is seems like strange symbols...
    I do not belong to any sampradaya, I have only love and belief for my lord shiva, and I can't see a slight of difference between lord vishnu and shiva.. I read shiv purana there it is written that lord vishnu is manifested from lord shiva, I don't read vishnu purana yet, but I think, there may written that lord shiva is manifested from lord vishnu... I don't want to interfere in this scriptural fight as I don't read them all yet and not have complete knowledge..
    But I believe that one who does not see any differences between vishnu and shiva he is clever one, as everyone's thinking is different, some may think totally different and that is right for them
    as I said in this forum there are many paths leads us to our destination, we have to do just one thing i.e. Journey, if we walk with dedication and devotion then no one can stop us from approching our destination but rather than walking if one just wastes his time by seeing which path is shorter or easier or does my path leads us to my goal then it is difficult for him to get to his destination
    like that Lord Shiva and Lord Vishnu both are supreme and both help us approch our ultimate goal. Seeing who is supreme is just a waste of time for me..
    Repecting all the sampradayas and sorry if I talked too much
    but for me both are always same and supreme..!
    Regards..!!
    Aasato ma sat gamay
    tamaso ma jotirgamay
    mrityorma amrutamgamay
    (Bring me from asat to sat, bring me from darkness (ignorance) to light (knowledge), bring me from death to immortality)
    Om Namah Shivay
    Om Vishnave Namah

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