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Thread: The afterlife, or rather the happening after life

  1. #1
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    Question The afterlife, or rather the happening after life

    All in all, the thought of life, death and whatever happens after death has been on my mind a lot lately, partially because in regards to the past lives I've gained memories from, I rarely make it past 30... regardless of whether or not these memories are real or not, I still find myself wondering what happens after life and if reincarnation is an instant thing or if perhaps there is some place that we have the chance to go to for a little bit of time to rest and reflect. Anyways, what are the beliefs about this in Hindu texts and do they state whether or not reincarnation is instantaneous, delayed or something that depends on the life lived?

    Having mixed beliefs for me definitely makes this a topic of interests especially since it's something that neo-pagans constantly wonder and conflict about in their own personal lives... so needless to say, am I going to live a series of lives and end up in a place like Valhalla, or am I going to find myself permanently merged with Brahma or am I going to cease be as I am and be dispersed among the Brahman lifestream so that the elements, that while being apart of me becoming perfected over many lifetimes, can be incorporated into others to help them with their paths?

  2. #2
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    Re: The afterlife, or rather the happening after life

    After death, the soul is supposed to travel through a river (I think it is Vaitarani river) and then it is judged at Yama's palace. (It is said the coin placed on the forehead of the dead is to enable them give the money to the boatman to take across this river). But some references say this is the path only for the sinner and that the blessed reach either Brahmaloka or Chandraloka. If liberated, the soul reaches Vaikuntha or Shivaloka.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: The afterlife, or rather the happening after life

    Namaste penguin10916

    I strongly suggest you to read Bhagavad-Gita with a commentary of a hindu guru you like.
    I am almost sure that in this way you will find the answer you seek

    Pranama,
    Orlando.

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    Re: The afterlife, or rather the happening after life

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    If the soul ( ātmā) is everywhere, without bounds Where can it go. We are told ātmā is satatoditam¹ 'without break or pause' . Where can this ātmā (soul) be that it is not there aleady before one even arrives ?

    Perhaps we need to re-think what comes and goes...

    iti śiva

    1. satatoditam = satata + udita
      • satata = perpetual , continual , uninterrupted
        udita = being high above, elevated
    यतसà¥à¤¤à¥à¤µà¤‚ शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṠśivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  5. #5

    Re: The afterlife, or rather the happening after life

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    If the soul ( ātmā) is everywhere, without bounds Where can it go. We are told ātmā is satatoditam¹ 'without break or pause' . Where can this ātmā (soul) be that it is not there aleady before one even arrives ?[/SIZE][/FONT]
    Only the paramAtmA is everywhere. The jIvAtmA is not. To mistake the jIvAtmA as being omnipresent would be in contradiction to the shrutis which specify the different paths of the recently deceased, as well as the path to svarga and the subsequent return to earth via rain.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  6. #6

    Re: The afterlife, or rather the happening after life

    Quote Originally Posted by philosoraptor View Post
    Only the paramAtmA is everywhere. The jIvAtmA is not. To mistake the jIvAtmA as being omnipresent would be in contradiction to the shrutis which specify the different paths of the recently deceased, as well as the path to svarga and the subsequent return to earth via rain.
    If I may suggest, it would be wise to refrain from speaking of Shruti as some unambigous, universal body of text - as it can mislead and confuse people easily.

    For example here, we have two posts - each from a different school of interpretation of the same Shruti. It would be better to be explicit about the school to which the poster is affiliated.
    http://lokayata.info
    http://shivsomashekhar.wordpress.com/category/history/

  7. #7

    Arrow Re: The afterlife, or rather the happening after life

    Hi .

    If you find this question of Life and Death fascinating - then you will enjoy reading the book " LIFE AFTER PHYSICAL DEATH" by Shriram Sharma Acharya.
    The book covers topics like : what do we experience when we die, what are ghosts, spirits, apparitions? What is the average time lag b/w death and rebirth. Are we reborn with the same gender? Can we choose where we are born etc.

    Shriram Sharma Acharya is a pioneering scientific spiritualist and a reincarnation of Ramkrishna Paramhansa. He has written over 3000 books and his Literature on the web is uploaded for free.

    Free online link to the book :
    http://www.scribd.com/my_content/pub...physical+death

    If you want to read a sample article on the subject, it is available on our blog :Guidingthoughts.blogspot.com
    http://guidingthoughts.blogspot.com/...r-is-soul.html

    We post articles and short informative snippets of our blog on Facebook:
    http://www.facebook.com/guidingthoughts?ref=stream

    Thank you and best regards
    Guidingthoughts.blogspot.com
    Spiritualbee.com

  8. #8

    Re: The afterlife, or rather the happening after life

    Quote Originally Posted by shiv.somashekhar View Post
    If I may suggest, it would be wise to refrain from speaking of Shruti as some unambigous, universal body of text - as it can mislead and confuse people easily.

    For example here, we have two posts - each from a different school of interpretation of the same Shruti. It would be better to be explicit about the school to which the poster is affiliated.
    No formal affiliation that I can claim at present. But I do note that the shvetAshvatara upaniShad, which is accepted by all orthodox schools, has this to say regarding the particle-like character of the jIvAtmA:

    baalaagrashatabhaagasya shatadhaa kalpitasya cha |
    bhaago jiivaH sa viGYeyaH sa chaanantyaaya kalpate || shve 5.9 ||

    Does an individual jIva of the size of a pinpoint subdivided hundreds of times sound like an omnipresent entity to you?

    And then let's look at chAndogya upaniShad:

    V-x-1-2: Among them, those who know thus (this knowledge of the five fires) and those who are devoted to faith and austerity in the forest - they go to light; from light to the day, from the day to the bright fortnight, from the bright fortnight to those six months during which the sun travels northward; from the months to the year, from the year to the sun, from the sun to the moon and from the moon to the lightning. (From the region of Brahman) a person, who is other than human, (comes and) causes them, existing there, to attain Brahman. This is the path of the gods.

    V-x-3: But those who living in villages (as householders) practice sacrifices and works of public utility and gift, go to smoke, from smoke to night, from night to the dark fortnight, from the dark fortnight to those months during which the sun travels southward. From there they do not reach the year (like those going the path of the gods).

    V-x-4: From the months, (they go) to the region of the fathers, from the region of the fathers to Akasa, from Akasa to the moon. This (i.e. this moon) is King Soma (the king of the Brahmanas). This is the food of the deities. This the deities eat.

    V-x-5: Residing in that (region of the moon) till they have exhausted (the results of action) they then return again the same way as they came (by the path that is being mentioned). They come to Akasa, and from Akasa to air. Having become air, they become smoke. Having become smoke they become the white cloud.

    V-x-6: Having become the white cloud, they become the (rain-bearing) cloud. Having become the cloud they fall as rain. Then they are born in this world as rice and barley, herbs and trees, sesame plants and beans. But the release from these is more difficult, for whoever eats the food and sows the seed, they become like him only.

    V-x-7: Among them, those who have good residual results of action here (earned in this world and left as residue after the enjoyment in the region of the moon), quickly reach a good womb, the womb of a Brahmana, or of a Kshatriya or of a Vaisya. But those who have bad residual results of action quickly reach an evil womb, the womb of a dog or of a hog or of a Chandala.

    V-x-8: Then, by neither of these two paths, do they go. They, as small creatures, keep repeatedly revolving, subject to the saying 'Be born and die'. This is the third state. Therefore that region (of the moon) is never filled up. Hence one should be disgusted (with this state). There is this verse about it.

    V-x-9: One who steals gold, one who drinks wine, one who dishonours the teacher's bed, and one who injures a Brahmana - all these four fall, as also the fifth one who associates with them.

    V-x-10: Moreover, he who knows (worships) these five fires thus, even though he associates with those sinners, is not tainted by sin. He who knows these thus becomes cleansed and pure and obtains the meritorious world - yea, he who knows thus.
    So if some entity A does B and goes to C, while another entity D does E and thus goes to F, which is more likely? That A and D are the same, omnipresent entity? Or that A and D are two different, finite entities?

    It's all nice and good to acknowledge the views of different schools of thought. But at some point we do need to stop and ask what the upaniShads are saying.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  9. #9

    Re: The afterlife, or rather the happening after life

    I have to keep this short, but have we not walked this path before?

    Shruti as a corpus is meaningless without interpretation. In response to your quotes, I can quote Brhadaranyaka, etc., which will be explicitly advaita in nature and will require interpretation by you, for it to be consistent with your beliefs.

    As for what the Upanishads says, they have been shown to have an advaitic meaning by Shankara in his BSB and his Upanishad Bhashyas. People are free to disagree, but they cannot claim such an interpretation does not exist nor can they claim that all Shruti has a common purport and is consistent without interpretation.

    Case in point, Shankara has specifically stated that Jiva = Brahman and nothing else. This is not a promotion that comes in future, but an eternal identity. Hence, my point that on a general philosophy forum, it helps if we are more specific about our affiliations.

    Regards,
    http://lokayata.info
    http://shivsomashekhar.wordpress.com/category/history/

  10. #10

    Re: The afterlife, or rather the happening after life

    Quote Originally Posted by shiv.somashekhar View Post
    I have to keep this short, but have we not walked this path before?
    Yes we have. Your basic point is that shruti is an inconsistent hodge podge of contradictory material. I get that. My point remains that none of the original Vedaantists held to such a position, nor did they consider their individual interpretations to represent one among many possible, valid meanings.

    It is meaningless to speak about shruti if we hold its meaning to be subjective. Prior to the advent of neo-Hinduism, "interpretation" was for the purpose of elucidating the correct meaning of shAstra. That different acharyas have different interpretations should not obfuscate the basic issue that the shruti exists to communicate certain ideas whose meaning is real in a world where actions have consequences.

    Shruti as a corpus is meaningless without interpretation. In response to your quotes, I can quote Brhadaranyaka, etc., which will be explicitly advaita in nature and will require interpretation by you, for it to be consistent with your beliefs.
    Interpretation is only necessary when the real meaning is not apparent. Such as for example, when the grantha in question appears to be contradicting itself, or when it appears to say something that runs counter to experience.

    Anyway, since you did not answer my questions about svetAshvatara or chAndogya upaniShads, I can quote bRhadAraNyaka also. How about this mantra, which speaks of the brahman as He who dwells within other living entities:

    III-vii-15: He who inhabits all beings, but is within it, whom no being knows, whose body is all beings, and who controls all beings from within, is the Internal Ruler, your own immortal self. This much with reference to the beings. Now with reference to the body.

    There's no way to get around it. You can cite multiplicity of interpretations You can even selectively quote the more "advaitic" mantras (of which there are certainly a few in the BU), but the idea of multiple, finite living entities who can move from one location to another according to their karma is clearly an upanishadic concept.

    As for what the Upanishads says, they have been shown to have an advaitic meaning by Shankara in his BSB and his Upanishad Bhashyas. People are free to disagree, but they cannot claim such an interpretation does not exist nor can they claim that all Shruti has a common purport and is consistent without interpretation.
    I never contested the idea that an advaitic intepretation existed. I also do not contest the idea that a Christian interpretation and a Muslim interpretation also exist. I just take issue with your attitude that all interpretations are valid, and that no one should hold any view about the shruti which contradicts the interpretation you favor, as if the very fact of it being an "interpretation" somehow privileges it from being scrutinized.

    Case in point, Shankara has specifically stated that Jiva = Brahman and nothing else. This is not a promotion that comes in future, but an eternal identity. Hence, my point that on a general philosophy forum, it helps if we are more specific about our affiliations.
    Well, I still have no formal affiliations compared to just a few postings ago, but even I can see that "Jiva = Brahman" is not consistent with the straightforward meaning of a shruti that describes one as the indwelling controller of the other, another shruti that describes one as all-pervasive while the other is of the dimensions of a hairtip divided multiple times, or another shruti which describes the jIva translocating from one destination to another according to its karma, rather contradictory to the presumption that it is omnipresent.

    regards,
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

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