Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 27 of 27

Thread: Lokas

  1. #21
    Join Date
    December 2012
    Posts
    552
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Lokas

    Namaste Anirudh

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh
    As we are discussing Loka and deities residing in it, may I ask you doubt that is bit off the topic. What is the role and position of deities like Shiva Indra Vayu Brahma etc in Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

    If Vishnu or Krishna is supreme Brahman, and Veda says only one Brahman then these other deities can't be the supreme Brahman. At the same time they can't be Jivaatma as well.
    Exactly, they are not Supreme Brahman.
    Why do you think that they can not be jivatmas?

    I wish to address the Sada Siva explanation separately. If Sada Shiva is Vishnu tatva then why do we need Shree Krishna to annihilate EVIL.
    We need either Lord Sadasiva or Lord Krishna because both of them are Vishnu tattva, ie Brahman.
    If someone is devoted to Lord Sadasiva he will attain liberation (mukti) and as His devotee he will reach His abode Sadasivaloka in Vaikuntha.
    The same is true for the devotees of Lord Krishna. They will attain liberation and as His devotees they will reach His abode Goloka.
    Devotees of Lord Narayana will reach His abode in Vaikuntha.
    I explained that in detail in the previous post.

    It is said explanation of Purana or any other scripture should reconcile with Veda. So can you tell me how all Devatas merge with Brahman in Veda.
    What do you mean by that "how all Devatas merge with Brahman"?


    ------------
    PS.
    If � characters appear, click on "Switch Editor Mode" button in the editor when you write your post. Maybe this will help.



    regards

  2. #22
    Join Date
    October 2012
    Location
    Bhaarath
    Age
    51
    Posts
    1,113
    Rep Power
    1502

    Question Re: Lokas

    Namaste brahma jijnasa

    Why do you think that they can not be jivatmas?

    I understand, Jivatma undergo the birth death cycle while deities dont. But
    I am not clear with the position of deities.

    Roughly, this is how I demark Jivatma and paramatna...

    Anirudh is the place holder of a unique Jivatma... When Anirudh dies either naturally or unnaturalu, the Jivatma depending on the Karma it accrued either returns to Paramatna (Narayana) or gets associated with another body.

    Paramatma is Vishnu. He is also called as Naaraayana. He encompasses everything.

    Now in this framework Naaraayan the Paramatma is universe and the meek Jivatma is a planet that cannot perish.Where do deities fit in this frame work?

    Based on the above association I assume
    deities can't be Jivatma.

    I roughly assume that these different lokas are different galaxies that reside in the Universe called Shreeman Naaraayan. May be this is GV Sampradaya.

    I am learning Vishnu Sahasra Naama. There again the role and the position of deities if taken into consideration confuses me.

    May be I should understand the difference between or definitions of tatva and amsa.
    Anirudh...

  3. #23
    Join Date
    June 2013
    Location
    Maharashtra
    Posts
    570
    Rep Power
    1125

    Re: Lokas

    Quote Originally Posted by viraja
    Apart from that, only Sri Rama and Sri Krishna avataras are said to be 'purnavataras' of Sri Vishnu, other avataras being only part-manifestations.
    Namaste VirAja..

    I am looking forward to know the scriptural supports of Krishna being purna avatara.. Because according to my knowledge of bhagavata and Vishnu purana, there many times Krishna is explicitly mentioned as Amsha Avatara of Lord Vishnu .

    What I wanna say, all avatara of Vishnu are amsha avatara of him and there's no any difference between them.

    Thank You.
    Hari On!

  4. #24
    Join Date
    July 2012
    Age
    52
    Posts
    2,088
    Rep Power
    2640

    Re: Lokas

    Quote Originally Posted by hinduism♥krishna View Post
    Namaste VirAja..

    I am looking forward to know the scriptural supports of Krishna being purna avatara.. Because according to my knowledge of bhagavata and Vishnu purana, there many times Krishna is explicitly mentioned as Amsha Avatara of Lord Vishnu .

    What I wanna say, all avatara of Vishnu are amsha avatara of him and there's no any difference between them.

    Thank You.
    Namaste HLK,

    Sri Rama is said to be born with 14 kala Sampurna of Sri Vishnu and some say because of this he is not purnavatara. Whereas many say Sri Krishna is born with 16 Kala Sampurna of Sri Vishnu and hence he is poornavatara.

    Here is another definition of why Rama and Krishna are purnavatara:

    "There are three kinds of incarnations. They are: (1) Purnavatara (full incarnation). When the God manifests himself in the form of a human being for the full span of life, this is known as purnavatara. The examples of this kind are Sri Rama, Sri Krishna, Veda Vyasa, etc. (2) Amsavatara (partial incarnation): When the incarnation is only partial, i.e. the activity of such manifestation is limited to a particular time, place or incident. Vamana, Varaha, Narasimha, Kurma, and Matsya, avatar fall in this category. (3) Avesavatara - Avesa means overshadowing. The example of this kind is Parasurama incarnation. When Sri Rama married Sita and was returning from Mithila, he was accosted by Parasurama and challenged to a duel, where it is said that after bending Vishnu’s bow, Vishnu’s influence in Parasurama passed to Sri Rama. Thereafter Parasurama is said to be no longer an avatara. In this case, Vishnu’s influence that overshadowed the soul of Parasurama, passed on to Sri Rama, leaving Parasurama a mere rishi (sage). This is clearly a case of avesa or overshadowing."

    And you get many results like this when you type the string 'Purnavatara Rama Krishna' in google.

    Pranam,

    Viraja
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

  5. #25
    Join Date
    June 2013
    Location
    Maharashtra
    Posts
    570
    Rep Power
    1125

    Re: Lokas

    Hello VirAja,

    Thanks for explaining it, however what's your stance on the verses like this,

    एतौ भगवतः साक्षात् हरेर्नारायणस्य हि ।
    अवतीर्णाविहांशेन वसुदेवस्य वेश्मनि ॥ Bhagavata 10.43.२३ ॥

    Meaning: These two ( Krishna and Balarama ) are Avatara of Hari himself. They are descended here as parts of Narayana in the home of Vasudeva.

    I've also read Vishnu Purana, that also mentions Krishna as Amsha Avatara of Vishnu. So how it can be said otherwise?

    You mentioned 14 kala 16 kala, honestly I didn't get that, because I never read such kala concept in either two main vaishnawa purana- Vishnu and Bhagavata.


    Quote Originally Posted by Viraja View Post
    Namaste HLK,

    Sri Rama is said to be born with 14 kala Sampurna of Sri Vishnu and some say because of this he is not purnavatara. Whereas many say Sri Krishna is born with 16 Kala Sampurna of Sri Vishnu and hence he is poornavatara.

    Here is another definition of why Rama and Krishna are purnavatara:

    "There are three kinds of incarnations. They are: (1) Purnavatara (full incarnation). When the God manifests himself in the form of a human being for the full span of life, this is known as purnavatara. The examples of this kind are Sri Rama, Sri Krishna, Veda Vyasa, etc. (2) Amsavatara (partial incarnation): When the incarnation is only partial, i.e. the activity of such manifestation is limited to a particular time, place or incident. Vamana, Varaha, Narasimha, Kurma, and Matsya, avatar fall in this category. (3) Avesavatara - Avesa means overshadowing. The example of this kind is Parasurama incarnation. When Sri Rama married Sita and was returning from Mithila, he was accosted by Parasurama and challenged to a duel, where it is said that after bending Vishnu’s bow, Vishnu’s influence in Parasurama passed to Sri Rama. Thereafter Parasurama is said to be no longer an avatara. In this case, Vishnu’s influence that overshadowed the soul of Parasurama, passed on to Sri Rama, leaving Parasurama a mere rishi (sage). This is clearly a case of avesa or overshadowing."

    And you get many results like this when you type the string 'Purnavatara Rama Krishna' in google.

    Pranam,

    Viraja
    Hari On!

  6. #26
    Join Date
    July 2012
    Age
    52
    Posts
    2,088
    Rep Power
    2640

    Re: Lokas

    Quote Originally Posted by hinduism♥krishna View Post
    Hello VirAja,

    Thanks for explaining it, however what's your stance on the verses like this,

    एतौ भगवतः साक्षात् हरेर्नारायणस्य हि ।
    अवतीर्णाविहांशेन वसुदेवस्य वेश्मनि ॥ Bhagavata 10.43.२३ ॥

    Meaning: These two ( Krishna and Balarama ) are Avatara of Hari himself. They are descended here as parts of Narayana in the home of Vasudeva.

    I've also read Vishnu Purana, that also mentions Krishna as Amsha Avatara of Vishnu. So how it can be said otherwise?

    You mentioned 14 kala 16 kala, honestly I didn't get that, because I never read such kala concept in either two main vaishnawa purana- Vishnu and Bhagavata.
    So are you saying with authority that Rama and Krishna are Amshavataras only of Sriman Narayana?

    The 14 and 16 kala mean that out of 16 divisions of Moon's kala, Rama and Krishna got 14 and 16 (full) respectively. I learnt this concept from this forum.

    I suggest you start a new thread and post your verses supporting the theory that Rama and Krishna are only part-manifestations so that the learned can participate.

    BTW: Several years ago, I was doing sadhana of just Sri Lakshmi Narasimhar. Then I had a vision and then I heard a voice (an echo) telling me that Smt. Sita is Kamakshi Amman. Then I did a lot of research and found 1 or 2 supporting links between Kamakshi Amman and Sita devi. Then I wondered how can that be because Kamakshi Amman is a Shaiva deity. This has been on my mind always, and very recently I had a vision that cleared out my doubt - that Kamakshi Amman is 'Gaja Lakshmi' - one of the 8 Lakshmis and specifically, the Lakshmi of POWER. So it seems to me that there is some link or mix of amshas of Sri Lakshmi and Sri Parvathi in Smt. Sita. Therefore such a mix is also possible for Sri Rama - he could be an amsha avatara and a mix of amshas of Sri Vishnu and Sri Shiva. Hardcore Vaishnavas won't accept this, but in divinity anything is possible!

    You might also take a look at a blog as this: http://mahapashupatastra.blogspot.co...-of-shiva.html

    Cheers,

    Viraja
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

  7. #27
    Join Date
    December 2012
    Posts
    552
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Lokas

    Namaste Anirudh
    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    I understand, Jivatma undergo the birth death cycle while deities dont. But
    I am not clear with the position of deities.
    ...
    Paramatma is Vishnu. He is also called as Naaraayana. He encompasses everything.

    Now in this framework Naaraayan the Paramatma is universe and the meek Jivatma is a planet that cannot perish.Where do deities fit in this frame work?

    Based on the above association I assume
    deities can't be Jivatma.
    Gods or demigods (devaḥ) such as Indra, Vayu, Brahma, guna avatara Shiva, are jiva souls also. I explained that long ago in another thread Why is demigod worship different from worshiping paramatma: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=12530
    Do you remember?

    There I quoted a verse from the Bhagavatam 4.29.29 which nicely and clearly says so:

    "the living entity is sometimes a male, sometimes a female, sometimes a eunuch, sometimes a human being, sometimes a demigod (devaḥ), sometimes a bird, an animal, and so on. In this way he is wandering within the material world. His acceptance of different types of bodies is brought about by his activities (karma) under the influence of the modes of nature (guṇam)."

    See what it says here. It says that one and the same living entity (jiva) is sometimes born as a human being, sometimes a bird, an animal, and sometimes a demigod (devaḥ)!
    So even you, atomic small soul Anirudh, living as a human in this lifetime can be reborn as a demigod Indra, or Vayu, or even Brahma, ... etc, in heaven in the next life.
    All this gods (demigods) Indra, Vayu, or even Brahma, ... etc, in heaven are atomic small souls, jivas or jivatmas.

    You may want to see other verses that I mentioned there in the post, but also in the other thread (see link there in the post # 1).

    Anirudh is the place holder of a unique Jivatma... When Anirudh dies either naturally or unnaturalu, the Jivatma depending on the Karma it accrued either returns to Paramatna (Narayana) or gets associated with another body.
    Actually a jiva can attain the Lord only when fully get rid of all karma.

    I am learning Vishnu Sahasra Naama. There again the role and the position of deities if taken into consideration confuses me.
    The deities mentioned in Vishnu sahasra nama are Lord Vishnu Himself. They are not jivas! They are one and the same Lord Vishnu (Vishnu tattva) who appears in His different forms, and thus 1000 names of Lord Vishnu are there.


    regards

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Question about heaven
    By wundermonk in forum Vaishnava
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 28 November 2011, 09:27 AM
  2. KUNDALINI RELATIONS
    By upsydownyupsy mv ss in forum Hot Topics
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 20 November 2011, 04:00 AM
  3. satsangaH: bhakti, jnAna, karma yoga
    By saidevo in forum Yoga
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 20 August 2009, 10:54 PM
  4. Loka's and coming back to Bhu
    By yajvan in forum Philosophy
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06 July 2007, 11:49 AM
  5. Sai Dharma: Creation Embodied in Man
    By saidevo in forum God in Hindu Dharma
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04 September 2006, 03:10 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •