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Thread: Reincarnation as non-human beings

  1. #11
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    Re: Reincarnation as non-human beings

    Pranam

    Quote Originally Posted by ZarryT View Post
    Since it appears so dependent on perspectives, could we not say that really it is not better to be a human than to be an animal? I could think up perspectives in which it would be better to be human, and some in which it would be better to be an animal. Does this mean they are equal, and neither is better?
    I don't think i have made my self understood here, off course i said Human form has it top most value because it affords one to inquire about the reason for life, otherwise every living entity is struggling very hard to be happy in their own way. whatever body one has acquired is through their desires that is why i find my self not wanting to judge. In one sense we are all same,we should see all living entities "equally" because the paramatma is situated in all of their hearts, The Gita's message (vidya vinaya sampane, brahmane gavi hastini...) isn't that we should take philosophical lessons from the cow and then try to milk the brahmana. So all of us are evolved differently and we have different values.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  2. #12
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    Re: Reincarnation as non-human beings

    I never meant that we are superior. I just meant that is how it is to the human mind. The best is to realise that neither animal nor human is superior.

  3. #13
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    Re: Reincarnation as non-human beings

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    Pranam



    I don't think i have made my self understood here, off course i said Human form has it top most value because it affords one to inquire about the reason for life, otherwise every living entity is struggling very hard to be happy in their own way. whatever body one has acquired is through their desires that is why i find my self not wanting to judge. In one sense we are all same,we should see all living entities "equally" because the paramatma is situated in all of their hearts, The Gita's message (vidya vinaya sampane, brahmane gavi hastini...) isn't that we should take philosophical lessons from the cow and then try to milk the brahmana. So all of us are evolved differently and we have different values.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    So it seems like we're in agreement then that fundamentally the human isn't better.

    I understand that the human is given this highest position by virtue of its intellect, ability to contemplate life and the divine. But i hold that this doesn't give humans a higher status: Humans would be terrible without it! It's not as if they're just as good as animals, but then better because of the intellect... they're only as good as animals because they have the intellect to make up for their shortcomings!
    If you found out that you were god, dreaming a life for yourself, and that you were identical with the external world, you would ask yourself: "So, what would I have happen to me in my life? what would be my perfect drama?":cool1:


    You died, and death was complete freedom from suffering - bliss. But it very quickly got lonely and repetitive in bliss, so you decided to be born once more. You've been doing this forever.

  4. #14
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    Re: Reincarnation as non-human beings

    Quote Originally Posted by ZarryT View Post
    So it seems like we're in agreement then that fundamentally the human isn't better.

    I understand that the human is given this highest position by virtue of its intellect, ability to contemplate life and the divine. But i hold that this doesn't give humans a higher status: Humans would be terrible without it! It's not as if they're just as good as animals, but then better because of the intellect... they're only as good as animals because they have the intellect to make up for their shortcomings!
    Still i rather have a human body then any other species.

    we may agree on certain things with a different perspective. but if we think on the line that we are so and so body then we would be missing the point.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  5. #15
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    Re: Reincarnation as non-human beings

    Namaste,

    Birth in a human body is considered better due to these two aspects :

    a) Other bodies are considered Bhog-yonis i.e. to enjoy the pleasures and pains of one's Karma or as decided by Nature. In these bodies the actions are mainly due to instincts than a conscious decision after calculating the advantages/disadvantages of a particular action. Therefore, in these body the Karmas don't accrue to the Jeeva.

    The mind of human body is better developed for anlaysing a situation based other available information and taking a suitable decision (free will). So, this gives one in this body to look beyond body and mind for spiritual progress while in other bodies Jeeva is too much attached to body-mind alone and acts on instinct.

    b) The human body has developed ChakrAs in spine which are the centres of various levels of Consciousness. The rising of Consciousness in these Chakras leads to Self-realisation. This is not possible in other Yonis (other than human).

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Reincarnation as non-human beings

    My own thought & not backed by any literature that I am aware of:

    If Brahman put his imprint in all creations , then it is that imprint that matters in every creation. Rest of what we see are fluff (skin, flesh , brain , spine etc..) , that provide various envelops to the core Self. We attribute this 'fluff' different names like human , mammals , insects , sun , moon , tree etc.. In its core , which really matters all creations are the same.

    IMHO , humans doesn't have anything special , other than being the top in the food chain.

  7. Re: Reincarnation as non-human beings

    All births and forms that we find in everywhere are all based on the Karma, nothing is rejected. Reincarnation as non-human beings is always happened, even bhagwan have its incarnation as non-human beings. Vishnu have matsyavtara, krumavatara, varahavatara, narsinhavatara, Shiva have Hanuman and others including his family with non human deities, even his son bhagwan Ganesh is Elephant headed. All deities have some non human vehicles and all their vehicles represents their symbol.
    [CENTER][B][FONT=Arial Black][SIZE=7][COLOR=Yellow] ॐ[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
    [/CENTER]

  8. #18

    Re: Reincarnation as non-human beings

    Quote Originally Posted by Seeker View Post
    My own thought & not backed by any literature that I am aware of:

    If Brahman put his imprint in all creations , then it is that imprint that matters in every creation. Rest of what we see are fluff (skin, flesh , brain , spine etc..) , that provide various envelops to the core Self. We attribute this 'fluff' different names like human , mammals , insects , sun , moon , tree etc.. In its core , which really matters all creations are the same.

    IMHO , humans doesn't have anything special , other than being the top in the food chain.
    That is THE spiritual lesson we are here to learn.

    Maya

  9. #19
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    Re: Reincarnation as non-human beings

    Quote Originally Posted by ZarryT View Post
    A simple question which i expect will foster some very complicated answers!

    Q: Why is reincarnation as anything other than a human typically considered bad / inferior?
    As far as I know human birth is the only birth, where you can change the state of your mind through your karma. This is because of the choices we have This is the middle loka.

    The upper and lower loka are results of the state of mind or karma phal (results of karma). There, one hardly have chances to alter the state of mind.

    Human has to go through these lokas as it is difficult to get to the highest loka (moksha) at once.

    No birth is without reason and are all towards the one goal of moving towards the final point. All are necessary and essential.

    The upper lokas are towards the subtle matter region (not physical) and lower loka along with human loka are in the gross matter region (physical).
    Love and best wishes:hug:

  10. #20
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    Re: Reincarnation as non-human beings

    Namaste

    My understanding is that most if not all scriptures and traditions are in agreement that human beings often and easily fall into animal rebirths.

    I would like to raise a question at this point:

    Scientists observe that we are currently going through a mass extinction period (50,000 species per year according to the UN.) This rate, which is increasing, if not halted and reversed will cause the dissolution of the ecosystem, which functions as our life support system, within 100 years.

    Let's use this possible future (I know that humanity is ingenious enough to design, together, a solution to the problems which currently face us as) a thought exercise.

    If humanity were to go extinct, along with most of the 'higher' life forms, to the point where only some reptiles, small mammals, and insects are left among the animal kingdom, where would the souls, previously in human bodies to work out their karma, go to work out their karma?

    I think the answer is apparent, especially considering the responsibility those souls would have had in mass extermination (whether intentional or not - the deed is done) - and I personally cannot think of a greater sin than the expurgation of an entire species, a crime that we are all, as members of modern civilization, essentially accomplices of. Though responsibility may be distributed very widely, when it comes to the point htat our species has gone extinct, along with many others, what will be the weight of that karmic burden, such that the jivatmans will have to sojourn through tens of thousands of more rebirths before nature once more evolves organisms, perhaps modeled on the same sort of primate template, perhaps something completely different, are capable of god realization and release from the cycle?

    Namaste
    Last edited by Shuddhasattva; 26 May 2012 at 12:45 AM.

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