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Thread: New and becoming disheartened

  1. #1

    Unhappy New and becoming disheartened

    Good morning:

    I am new to this forum as well as a "new" Hindu, after years of seeking and reading, studying, and fear of allowing myself to believe in God (upbringing, scientific, very "reality-based" in my belief systems) I attended a temple last year and received a sound plunk on the head a "We've been waiting for you!" kind of plunk- Yes, yes! Suddenly the words of Lord Krishna, the spiritual pain of the great Arjuna- the beautiful passages in the Upanishads that make me weep - yes, this is where I am supposed to be.
    Hoping to be received at least kindly by the priests and members much less embraced- has yet to happen. I asked members for guidance and direction- get the response "ask the priest". when I ask the priest I get responses like "just do it" very coldly, very UNpriestly; I have made it VERY clear I am in earnest, I attend temple oten, I participate in pujas, prayers, have even donated money to fund raising events - I am received with a blank stare when I ask about "guru"...like I have three heads or something. I try to be respectful, curteous to a fault.
    I've experienced a couple rewarding moments- reward enough for me to think MAYBE I am finally being accepted but- my experience will tell you how I am feeling at this point:
    I wanted to celebrate my adult child's (only son who is ill) birthday and also wanted him to receive blessings from God for his ill health. I requested and PAID for an ayushya homam.
    The priest that performed the homam was visibly furious he was performing this rite for us; when he saw us he stormed off to the administrators office and began to yell at her in Hindi (I am white and don't speak hindi) in front of me for at least 5 minutes.
    He then stormed back to the area where the homam was to be done and proceeded. I was near tears and so distraught by the time we were done I was emotionally exhausted. So much so I couldn't bring myself to go back to the temple, nor even pick up my copy of my beloved Gita.
    I was informed by someone that priests at most Hindu temples are Brahmins that come to the U.S and are paid for their "services" and generally bring caste prejudices with them.
    What a nasty taste added to a nasty taste already in my mouth! Indulgences? How disappointing!
    Please give this very disallusioned new Hindu insight! I perform pujas in my home to Lord Ganesha and Lord Shiva. I am trying very hard to continue my path but am not sure now I am doing the right thing.

  2. #2

    Re: New and becoming disheartened

    Namaste,

    I would suggest not to get disheartned about hinduism due to behaviour of a few "hindus". You just had experiences with poor mannered Indians and not hindus. And the way Indians behave have little to do with hinduism. This topic will be too complicated to discuss here.

    But my suggestion is too keep the following things in mind:

    1> Hinduism is an religion for the individual. Becoming a contributer to a temple or such things are irrelevant.

    2> Get in contact with a hindu and seek personal advice. If you get help from a western hindu ~ better. There are many hindu gurus who have followers in the west. You have to find your own from them. Getting to a traditional temple may be of lesser help for an westerner ~ let's say it is more of an Indian cultural thing and not hindu philosphy or spirituality.


    I'm sure the western hindu's in this forum can help you to start with.

  3. #3
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    Smile Re: New and becoming disheartened

    Namaste ThouArt,

    Traditional Hindu worship is not “congregational” in the way of other religions such as Christianity. Of course people meet at the temple, but the important contact is with the Deity that is installed there and the presence of other people is merely a distraction. There is, of course, more social contact in sessions of group discussion, recitation, singing, chanting, etc., but this is usually distinct from times of formal Puja (ritual worship), and likely to be led by local Pundits rather than by the temple Pujari.

    Homa is a very traditional Vedic ritual, and there are some details required by the officiating priest(s) which, as a recent convert to Hinduism (without Hindu parents or a Hindu Guru), you would be unable to supply. For example: What is your given Hindu name? What is your father’s Hindu family name? What is your Gotra? What is your particular Charana?

    I would imagine that the priest was not particularly angry with you, but with the impossible situation in which he found himself. Very superficially I suppose this might be termed “caste prejudice”, but the discrimination is not unfounded.

    If your own birth is not Hindu, the above details can only be supplied after marriage into a Hindu family or after initiation with a Hindu Guru. A Guru will bestow an appropriate name, and you will become an heir to his own spiritual lineage (including Parivara, Parampara, Gotra, and Rishis).

  4. #4
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    Re: New and becoming disheartened

    As others have said, please don't be discouraged. Is there another Temple that you can attend?

    Lord Ganesha is a personal favorite of mine. Pray to him to remove the obstacles you are now encountering. Lord Siva is also merciful.

    As a new Hindu myself, I admire that you have taken the initiative.

    A last note - there may be other meditation groups or satsangs that you could attend as is the case in my city.

    Above all else, welcome to the forum.

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    Re: New and becoming disheartened

    Quote Originally Posted by ThouArt
    Good morning:

    I am new to this forum as well as a "new" Hindu, after years of seeking and reading, studying, and fear of allowing myself to believe in God (upbringing, scientific, very "reality-based" in my belief systems) I attended a temple last year and received a sound plunk on the head a "We've been waiting for you!" kind of plunk- Yes, yes! Suddenly the words of Lord Krishna, the spiritual pain of the great Arjuna- the beautiful passages in the Upanishads that make me weep - yes, this is where I am supposed to be.
    Namaste ThouArt!

    and welcome to the forums!

    Other more knowledgeable members of the forum have already replied and told you what I would have said. I would just like to reiterate that please do not be discouraged. As far as the specific case of the behaviour of the priest...I couldn't say for sure...I would say that sarabhanga is correct. I think the priest may be annoyed because the administrator accepted the puja but didn't know the details that priest needed to know to perfor the puja properly!

    As far as guru, many hindus in the west do not have a guru. It is correct that you will get blank stares when asking about a guru. On top of that the 'western hindu temple' thing is a bad copy of the christian sunday church thing. Many people go to the temple to meet and socialize, there is nothing wrong with that but that's not the purpose of going to the temple. In fact, I do not attend the temple in our town for this very reason and try to do puja and japa in my own house.

    Our hearts are tiny temples that are lit with the same light that lights this whole universe and are energized with the same energy from one source...
    satay

  6. #6

    Re: New and becoming disheartened

    Quote Originally Posted by ThouArt
    Good morning:

    I am new to this forum as well as a "new" Hindu, after years of seeking and reading, studying, and fear of allowing myself to believe in God (upbringing, scientific, very "reality-based" in my belief systems) I attended a temple last year and received a sound plunk on the head a "We've been waiting for you!" kind of plunk- Yes, yes! Suddenly the words of Lord Krishna, the spiritual pain of the great Arjuna- the beautiful passages in the Upanishads that make me weep - yes, this is where I am supposed to be.
    Hoping to be received at least kindly by the priests and members much less embraced- has yet to happen. I asked members for guidance and direction- get the response "ask the priest". when I ask the priest I get responses like "just do it" very coldly, very UNpriestly; I have made it VERY clear I am in earnest, I attend temple oten, I participate in pujas, prayers, have even donated money to fund raising events - I am received with a blank stare when I ask about "guru"...like I have three heads or something. I try to be respectful, curteous to a fault.
    I've experienced a couple rewarding moments- reward enough for me to think MAYBE I am finally being accepted but- my experience will tell you how I am feeling at this point:
    I wanted to celebrate my adult child's (only son who is ill) birthday and also wanted him to receive blessings from God for his ill health. I requested and PAID for an ayushya homam.
    The priest that performed the homam was visibly furious he was performing this rite for us; when he saw us he stormed off to the administrators office and began to yell at her in Hindi (I am white and don't speak hindi) in front of me for at least 5 minutes.
    He then stormed back to the area where the homam was to be done and proceeded. I was near tears and so distraught by the time we were done I was emotionally exhausted. So much so I couldn't bring myself to go back to the temple, nor even pick up my copy of my beloved Gita.
    I was informed by someone that priests at most Hindu temples are Brahmins that come to the U.S and are paid for their "services" and generally bring caste prejudices with them.
    What a nasty taste added to a nasty taste already in my mouth! Indulgences? How disappointing!
    Please give this very disallusioned new Hindu insight! I perform pujas in my home to Lord Ganesha and Lord Shiva. I am trying very hard to continue my path but am not sure now I am doing the right thing.
    Namaskaar. I am sorry that you have had to go through such unfortunate experiences. I tend to look beyond religions and more into spiritualism. While I am a Hindu and don't plan on becoming anything else, I have seen my share of a lack of spiritualism among Hindus as well as other groups. I believe that this occurs when people forget what the mission of religion is. They forget that their rituals and behaviors are supposed to be for the purpose of spiritual growth and not just for the sole purpose of doing the rituals to say that you have done them.

    Unfortunately, none of this really surprises me. Even many Indian Hindus that take a serious interest in Hinduism don't seem to get much of a response in my experiences. Every time I see organized religion in action, I become more skeptical of it because I see more negative results than positive results. Hinduism or Sanatana Dharma is actually supposed to be more of an individual religion than an organized religion but today it has for the most part become over organized much like Christianity.

    Anyway, to cut to the chase I will respond to your individual points. Before anyone else here criticizes me without knowing the facts, I DO NOT participate in "group think" or "collective consciousness." I do NOT take sides with Hindus just because I am one of them. Even if every Hindu in the world is wrong I will not hesitate to say it. I focus on what is right and wrong regardless of groups or labels. I'll order the points in the order you placed them:

    1. If you have not done anything wrong (which I'm sure is the case) and the members as well as priests are not accepting you, then the fact is that they are not spiritual people. A truly spiritual person will accept everyone including those they disagree with. Most of us aren't there yet. Regardless, people who are at least somewhat spiritual should at least have a moral reason for rejecting a person. If the members are rejecting you because you are not Indian, then they are racists. This is the United States of America and while we are a diverse country, I have ZERO tolerance for racism especially coming from minority groups here. It is extremely hypocritical for a minority group in the U.S. to be racist against the majority group but it clearly happens. I also would have no problem telling such people face to face the truth and I have done it many times before. As to the priests, they are hired to do a job which includes accepting everyone that shows respect to the temple. A priest that cannot do that is a fraud and should be thrown out of the temple. A person who cannot treat all people with reasonable equality and respect has no business being a priest.

    I would also be curious to hear which temple this is. You don't have to tell me if you don't want to. If you do want to tell me, I give you my word that I won't tell anyone that you were the one who told me. These temples have to follow a set of federal and state laws in order to have tax-exempt status. A racial discrimination complaint to the IRS can cause the place to get shut down. It can also cause them to have their assets and property seized. I am pretty strict in my views. If a temple is bogus, I'd rather just have it shut down and then it won't be a problem anymore. Same with other institutions. If these people are as nasty as it sounds they are, I'd have no moral objections to stirring up a whole lot of trouble such as getting the media's attention as well as the government's.

    2. I don't care how many people disagree with me on this, but charging for spirituality is wrong. I can accept a priest charging for a ritual if it is done in one's private home or is something that is clearly optional and separate from the temple. Temples that charge money for rituals including everything from pujas to aartis to samskaaras are bogus. If money is that important to them, they should close down the temples and get jobs like everyone else. Spirituality is similar to love. You cannot buy it or sell it. You can only obtain it and give it away. Spiritualism cannot be bought or sold with money and nobody needs money to raise their spiritual consciousness or to help others become more spiritual. These temples need to either focus on helping people to grow spiritually or they need to just close down and do something more productive than just emptying people's wallets. Temples that keep things very simple won't need much money. Temples that try to become the big scene in town and gather large numbers of people (in the guise of 'serving the Hindu community') are really more like businesses than spiritual centers. Unfortunately in today's bogus human civilization, people believe that bigger is always better. We have nearly 7 billion people in the world and less than 1% of them are very spiritual. Temples should try to get to those special people and not just run a cattle call.

    3. Last but not least but what you described here is clearly racial discrimination. You can choose to just quit coming to the temple if you wish or you can choose to get even. They are required to follow state and federal laws or they lose their tax-exempt status. If you are convinced that this institution is NOT serving the spiritual needs of the people and has discriminated against you, you can file a lawsuit and file a complaint with the IRS.

    I will conclude my point in saying that pretty much every ritual you see in a temple can be done at home either by yourself or with others who share the same interests. Spirituality is something personal and while group spirituality can help it is not necessary. Good luck and let us know how things go. ~BYS~

  7. #7

    Re: New and becoming disheartened

    Quote Originally Posted by sarabhanga
    Namaste ThouArt,

    Traditional Hindu worship is not “congregational” in the way of other religions such as Christianity. Of course people meet at the temple, but the important contact is with the Deity that is installed there and the presence of other people is merely a distraction. There is, of course, more social contact in sessions of group discussion, recitation, singing, chanting, etc., but this is usually distinct from times of formal Puja (ritual worship), and likely to be led by local Pundits rather than by the temple Pujari.

    Homa is a very traditional Vedic ritual, and there are some details required by the officiating priest(s) which, as a recent convert to Hinduism (without Hindu parents or a Hindu Guru), you would be unable to supply. For example: What is your given Hindu name? What is your father’s Hindu family name? What is your Gotra? What is your particular Charana?

    I would imagine that the priest was not particularly angry with you, but with the impossible situation in which he found himself. Very superficially I suppose this might be termed “caste prejudice”, but the discrimination is not unfounded.

    If your own birth is not Hindu, the above details can only be supplied after marriage into a Hindu family or after initiation with a Hindu Guru. A Guru will bestow an appropriate name, and you will become an heir to his own spiritual lineage (including Parivara, Parampara, Gotra, and Rishis).
    I'm quite skeptical about this as well. Most of these "Hindus" at these temples are not much more Hindu than the Westerners who go there and are often less "Hindu." Yet for some reason they have little to no problem getting the same rituals performed on them that are for some reason "difficult" to provide for the Westerners. Most of the Indian Hindus that attend these places do not have a guru. While they all have Indian names, most don't have "Hindu" names--as in the names given when you take initiation by a guru.

    I can really sum up what the problem is here. If you walk into a temple and you are an Indian, you are automatically accepted as a Hindu without any questions asked. If you walk into a temple and you are white, black, or otherwise non-Desi, you have to go through a large amount of red tape to be accepted as Hindu. Even though most of these Indian Hindus barely know anything about Hinduism, most have no gurus, most have no Hindu names--just Indian names, they are still considered Hindu because their parents were, etc. At least this is what I gather from your words. Perhaps we should not forget that all these names and titles are temporary and superficial. The focus here is spiritual growth and realization of the Supreme through Sanatana Dharma. There should not be any red tape or irrelevant nonsense for anyone regardless of where they were born, who their parents were, what color their skin is, etc. All of this stuff that is totally irrelevant to spiritualism is garbage and should be scrapped.

    Last but not least, when I have been to India as a foreigner from the United States, I demonstrated a respect and appreciation for India's culture and way of life. I also had no expectations that anyone would speak English or even make an attempt since Hindi is the official language. I expect that people from other countries can also behave the same way when they come to the United States. If these pujaris who come to the United States cannot also demonstrate a respect for our culture and way of life (within reason) and at least treat the people who live here with courteousness and respect, then they should pack their bags and get out of the country. If you cannot respect the country you go to, you should not even be given a visa in the first place. Sorry if I sound rough and tough but I believe it is a two-way street. If I'm given a visa to go to India, I will appreciate that and show some respect to the people who live there and treat them with respect. Those who come here who cannot do the same shouldn't be here. Come to think of it if there are pujaris here on visas who are that disrespectful of Westerners, maybe it is time to turn in their names to the U.S. State Department and have their visas cancelled. Enough said.

  8. #8

    Re: New and becoming disheartened

    Anyway, I guess I've said a lot here but I am really tired of the way religion seems to cause more hurt to people than help. I'm tired of the endless hypocrisy coming from people claiming to be spiritual people and yet they are unable to show it. I'm tired of how people claim to know everything about spirituality by how many rounds they chant, how many books they read, and how many years of puja experience yet cannot actually practice spiritualism. Most of all it is tiring and frustrating how much if not most of the time people focus more on irrelevant religious dogma than on true spirituality. If we are to accept that Hinduism is a truly spiritual path, then all of these irrelevancies, red tape, prejudices, useless dogma, and baseless rejection of genunine souls need to be scrapped. Otherwise, it becomes nothing but big-scale hypocristy. ~BYS~

  9. #9

    Re: New and becoming disheartened

    Namaste ThouArt,

    Quote Originally Posted by ThouArt
    I am received with a blank stare when I ask about "guru"...like I have three heads or something.
    Do you mean you are asking them where you can find a Guru?

    I perform pujas in my home to Lord Ganesha and Lord Shiva.
    My advice is to pray to Lord Ganesha or Lord Shiva to help you find a Guru, that can help guide you on the spiritual path. The Guru will take you into his spiritual care, and help answer all your questions and meet your spiritual needs, as you follow his guidance. And hopefully you will find fellowship with other devotees as well.

  10. #10
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    Re: New and becoming disheartened

    Those who do not understand will often be skeptical!

    In the DIY Hinduism of BYS, what name would you suggest to fill in the blank in the following mantra used in initiating a Homa?

    agne tvaM [???] devatA nAmAsi

    No one is compelled to perform any Vedic Yajna (ritual fire sacrifice), and modern (“neo-Brahmanic” or “post-Shankara”) Hinduism strongly denies any need for such processes, which are generally only performed for the granting of worldly desires.

    There is no problem for anyone following any school of Vedanta and adopting their philosophy as a perfect “Hindu”. But it must be remembered that the Vedas and many traditional Vedic practices assume various intimate connexions and relationships that the aforementioned devotee of Hinduism might not possess (nor even imagine!).

    No modern Hindu is compelled to perform Vedic Yajnas.

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