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Thread: Isha Upanishad refutes Mayavada (Illusionism) by Shankara

  1. #41

    Re: Isha Upanishad refutes Mayavada (Illusionism) by Shankara

    Dear Savitru ji,


    Do you know something? I know science and science doesn't have a scientific definition for consciousness yet.
    That is true. Science does not understand consciousness.

    You along with your logic, reason and the scientific method think that YOU ARE GOD without showing any humility to the person who created this universe.
    No I do not. It would be stupid to think I am God, since i am limited. I cannot convince you that shankara was right even after so many posts ... that should not be the case with God !

    So its obvious that I am not God.


    Coming to your super natural powers ... can you explain why you listed them for me here ?

    Tell your scientific morons to try and simulate this if they can or else please kindly allow us to revive Hinduism so that we can demonstrate these Siddhis confirming the existence of the supernatural. Science is not God and it doesn't know anything.
    If they are morons how can they be scientific ? and who has demonstrated siddhis ? I am yet to find one. Have you found one ? How did you verify if he is tricking or really a siddha ? If you accepted he is a siddha without verification, do you think you have anything more than an emotional claim to make ?

    If you have found one ... do a simple test. I have thought a word in my mind ... let him tell what i have thought ! Lets see he will be able to tell. If he is able to tell, ill myself come there and find out ! since if there are such siddhis possible ,it would be of great help for the society. But then, just imagining and believing some ideas ... wont help anyone !

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  2. #42
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    Re: Isha Upanishad refutes Mayavada (Illusionism) by Shankara

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste Savithru,

    It is all your assumptions or beliefs. Many people don't agree with this.
    Of course we are a minority but our POV (point of view) is not based upon blind assumptions or beliefs instead its based upon extremely good scholarly evidence from traditional scholars in the field and also by Sri Aurobindo who is one of the prime proponent of this theory. We can destroy Hinduism and the agamas if we chose to.



    What is "Hiranyagarbha Yoga tradition" ?

    OM
    I instructed this imperishable science of yoga to the sun-god, Vivasvan, and Vivasvan instructed it to Manu, the father of mankind, and Manu in turn instructed it to Iksvaku. The supreme science was thus received through the chain of disciplic succession, and the saintly kings understood it in that way. But in course of time the succession was broken, and therefore the science as it is appears to be lost.”

    - Bhagavad Gita 4.1 & 4.2
    Hiranyagarbha Yoga is the oldest form of yoga which existed even before Patanjali compiled the Yoga sutras into a new philosophy of Yoga combining Samkhya and other darshanas. A few surviving teachings of the Hiranyagarbha Yoga still exists here and there and in this form of Yoga more emphasis is given to inner yajna and inner sacrifices to Vedic deities. It is the Yoga of the Sun god who is the true knower of this yoga.

  3. #43
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    Re: Isha Upanishad refutes Mayavada (Illusionism) by Shankara

    Quote Originally Posted by silence_speaks View Post
    Dear Savitru ji,

    Coming to your super natural powers ... can you explain why you listed them for me here ?
    Because you said religious experiences can be simulated by neuroscience so go ahead simulate the siddhis which I have mentioned here through neuroscience. The point is simple religious experiences of God are not hallucinations instead they are real otherwise there is no point in one going after Deity Yoga. Try simulating levitation in a laboratory if not ask your neuro-scientists to just shut up because through yoga one can achieve all those feats.

    If they are morons how can they be scientific ?
    Scientists are morons because they do not study religion or the history of religion as they do the natural world.

    and who has demonstrated siddhis ? I am yet to find one. Have you found one ? How did you verify if he is tricking or really a siddha ? If you accepted he is a siddha without verification, do you think you have anything more than an emotional claim to make ?

    If you have found one ... do a simple test. I have thought a word in my mind ... let him tell what i have thought ! Lets see he will be able to tell. If he is able to tell, ill myself come there and find out ! since if there are such siddhis possible ,it would be of great help for the society. But then, just imagining and believing some ideas ... wont help anyone !

    Love!
    Silence
    Siddhis are possible its just that no one takes it too seriously these days because every one is running after the European system of education and no one practice Yoga seriously along with mantras instead they just do it to stretch their fatty bodies. How can you find a siddha when there is no one at this age of time and space who applies the science of Yoga properly?

  4. #44

    Re: Isha Upanishad refutes Mayavada (Illusionism) by Shankara

    Dear savithru,


    How can you find a siddha when there is no one at this age of time and space who applies the science of Yoga properly?
    So have you seen a Siddha or not ?

    1) If you have never seen one ... then you "Believe" in siddhis. I cannot question or reason about a belief. Its unvalidated , unverified idea! Its your personal and emotional bondage with that idea... i do not wish to be harsh with you on that but these are called superstitions. But children want to believe all that since it gives them fun. They need to grow up.


    2) If you have met one ... I asked if you validated that he is a siddha not a trickster ! How to validate ? Well, i gave the best idea. Ask him to tell a word i imagined. If he has any kind of siddhi he will be able to tell that !


    I have created this experiment since siddhis like levitation can also be imitated by someone like PC Sarkar. so with regards that there may be some possibility of getting tricked. But with my experiment there can be no way. If you find one who can answer my question above ... let me know ... ill come to where you are and find out the way to publish a scientific paper on that. I'll spend rest of my life on making it popular and publishing the paper.

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  5. #45
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    Re: Isha Upanishad refutes Mayavada (Illusionism) by Shankara

    Quote Originally Posted by silence_speaks View Post
    Dear savithru,




    So have you seen a Siddha or not ?

    1) If you have never seen one ... then you "Believe" in siddhis. I cannot question or reason about a belief. Its unvalidated , unverified idea! Its your personal and emotional bondage with that idea... i do not wish to be harsh with you on that but these are called superstitions. But children want to believe all that since it gives them fun. They need to grow up.


    2) If you have met one ... I asked if you validated that he is a siddha not a trickster ! How to validate ? Well, i gave the best idea. Ask him to tell a word i imagined. If he has any kind of siddhi he will be able to tell that !


    I have created this experiment since siddhis like levitation can also be imitated by someone like PC Sarkar. so with regards that there may be some possibility of getting tricked. But with my experiment there can be no way. If you find one who can answer my question above ... let me know ... ill come to where you are and find out the way to publish a scientific paper on that. I'll spend rest of my life on making it popular and publishing the paper.

    Love!
    Silence
    I don't know why people act so foolishly and bigoted without understanding the epistemology and dynamics of Indian philosophy. Its nothing but shear double standards and delusions.

    Shankara himself demonstrated the siddhi of parakaya pravesha, the act of entering another body alive which clearly shows that consciousness is outside the current scientific paradigm. Stop worshipping science and logic for god sake and wake up to the truth.

    After debating for over fifteen days, with Maṇḍana Miśra's wife Ubhaya Bhāratī acting as referee, Maṇḍana Miśra accepted defeat.Ubhaya Bhāratī then challenged Adi Shankara to have a debate with her in order to 'complete' the victory. She asked him questions related to sexual congress between man and woman – a subject in which Shankaracharya had no knowledge, since he was a true celibate and sannyasi. Sri Shankracharya asked for a "recess" of 15 days. As per legend, he used the art of "para-kaya pravesa" (the spirit leaving one's own body and entering another's) and exited his own body, which he asked his disciples to look after, and psychically entered the dead body of a king. The story goes that from the King's two wives, he acquired all knowledge of "art of love". The queens, thrilled at the keen intellect and robust love-making of the "revived" King, deduced that he was not their husband, as of old. The story continues that they sent their factotums to "look for the lifeless body of a young sadhu and to cremate it immediately" so that their "king" (Shankracharya in the king's body) would continue to live with them. Just as the retainers piled Shankracharaya's lifeless corpse upon a pyre and were about to set fire to it, Shankara entered his own body and regained consciousness. Finally, he answered all questions put to him by Ubhaya Bhāratī; and she allowed Maṇḍana Miśra to accept sannyasa with the monastic name Sureśvarācārya, as per the agreed-upon rules of the debate.

  6. #46

    Re: Isha Upanishad refutes Mayavada (Illusionism) by Shankara

    Dear Savitru ji,


    Please calm down, we are only discussing ... no harm in seeing all sides of the story. Purvapaksha is allowed even on the upanishadic statements. So nothing wrong in questioning your claim about siddhis.


    Shankara himself demonstrated the siddhi of parakaya pravesha, the act of entering another body alive which clearly shows that consciousness is outside the current scientific paradigm. Stop worshipping science and logic for god sake and wake up to the truth.
    Did he demonstrate it to you ? For what I know its no more than a story unless you see it yourself ! Its a mere story ... a few people want it to be true so hold onto it on belief!


    I am asking, what is the basis for your belief ? And you are not answering such a simple question! And how do you know if you had an experience that it is not hallucination. I have also proposed a good test for you to verify. And am totally open provided its validatable!!


    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  7. #47
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    Re: Isha Upanishad refutes Mayavada (Illusionism) by Shankara

    Quote Originally Posted by silence_speaks View Post
    Dear Savitru ji,

    Did he demonstrate it to you ? For what I know its no more than a story unless you see it yourself ! Its a mere story ... a few people want it to be true so hold onto it on belief!
    Shear double standards, people like you are truly the real enemies of Hinduism. Shankara was never an atheist you might just go on to say that Gayatri doesn't exist at all. Its all just a story isn't it? How do you think Ramakrishna Pramahamsa was enlightened? He was not enlightened by simply worshipping emptiness and nihilism but by worshipping a deity who was Kali ma. He practised Deity Yoga and gave the brilliant student Swami Vivekananda to the world.

    I am asking, what is the basis for your belief ?
    What the hell, is this a forum for discussing Hinduism or a forum for discussing atheism? My beliefs are based on a tradition which is millennium of years old and I know more about my religion than atheistic Hindus who have hijacked and corrupted Hinduism leading it to its decline.

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    Re: Isha Upanishad refutes Mayavada (Illusionism) by Shankara

    Namaste,

    It is clear from his Autobiographical Notes that Śrī Aurobindo revered Svāmī Vivekānanda, looked up to him, and saw him as an exalted being, after all it was Aurobindo's experience of Svāmī Vivekānanda while he was in jail that was part of his spiritual awakening. (You might even say that Aurobindo borrowed an idea from Svāmī Vivekānanda. The svāmī followed his own guru in teaching that the realization of nirguṇa "without qualities" Brahman does not sublate or negate saguṇa "with qualities" Brahman.) It is equally clear that Svāmī Vivekānanda revered Śrī Ādi Śaṅkarācārya. He is the one who made the name Śaṅkara famous in the West. In fact he revered all of the great Vedānta ācāryas (teachers), just as his own guru, Śrī Rāmakṛṣṇa, did. This is why the Rāmakṛṣṇa Order publishes translations of Śrī Ādi Śaṅkarācārya's writings, as well as Śrī Rāmānujācārya's writings. It is why they publish a book about the teachings of the great bhakti (devotion) schools of Vedānta. Śrī Rāmakṛṣṇa was one who did not criticize any tradition (sampradāyam na nindati). He taught that there is no single frame of reference or perspective from which Reality is viewed which is superior to all others. This was one of his greatest teachings. And you might say he proved his insights by living the life of a realized master. He fully embodied all of the extraordinary virtues praised in the Bhagavad Gītā and elsewhere. He lived selflessly, showed love and compassion to everyone without exception, practiced constant gentleness and patience, never showed a trace of ego, etc. (The Gospel of Ramakrishna is perhaps the single most informative book about his life and teachings, as recorded by a disciple, although there are others.)

    It is also worth noting that Śrī Ādi Śaṅkarācārya did not oppose bhakti at all. In fact he composed hymns to Lord Viṣṇu, Lord Śiva, the Divine Mother, and others. (These can be read in the same volume as the Ramakrishna Order's translation of his Ātmabodha.)

    It is not my intention to tell others what to think. I'm simply offering these thoughts for your consideration. Everyone will see things in his or her own way.

    May all be happy.

    praṇām
    śrīmate nārāyaṇāya namaḥ

  9. #49

    Re: Isha Upanishad refutes Mayavada (Illusionism) by Shankara

    Dear savithru ji,


    How do you think Ramakrishna Pramahamsa was enlightened? He was not enlightened by simply worshipping emptiness and nihilism but by worshipping a deity who was Kali ma.
    who said that one cannot realize through Bhakti ?
    "Emptiness and nihilism" -- shunyavada is not the same as Advaita as taught by shankara.

    What the hell, is this a forum for discussing Hinduism or a forum for discussing atheism? My beliefs are based on a tradition which is millennium of years old and I know more about my religion than atheistic Hindus who have hijacked and corrupted Hinduism leading it to its decline.
    A Belief is a belief ... it just means you do not know... even if it is based on a tradition. Do you believe you have two hands or do you know ? If you know ... its not a belief. IF you believe, it means you are not sure !!


    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

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    Re: Isha Upanishad refutes Mayavada (Illusionism) by Shankara

    Quote Originally Posted by anucarh View Post
    Namaste,

    It is also worth noting that Śrī Ādi Śaṅkarācārya did not oppose bhakti at all. In fact he composed hymns to Lord Viṣṇu, Lord Śiva, the Divine Mother, and others.

    praṇām
    It doesn't change the fact that Shankara did opposed the philosophy of Purva Mimamsa and underestimated a sect called Sauram who worship Surya as Saguna Brahman and affirm that Surya is above the Trimurthis and they clearly show that Vedas and the Upanishads destroys Mayavada (Illusionism) by Shankara to the bottomless ocean. When someone has made a mistake it should be criticized even if it is Swami Vivekanada or Shankara no hard feelings and no sentiments I am only in the pursuit of truth. When the saura texts didn't abide according to their theory of Mayavada the followers of Shankara silently removed those texts from the canon of principle Upanishads. Shankara was very silent about this particular sect.

    Sauram

    "The Saura sect that worships Surya as the supreme person of godhead and saguna brahman doesn't accept the Trimurti as they believe Surya is God. Earlier forms of the Trimurti sometimes included Surya instead of Brahma, or as a fourth above the Trimurti, of whom the other three are manifestations; Surya is Brahma in the morning, Vishnu in the afternoon and Shiva in the evening. Surya was also a member of the original Vedic Trimurti, which included Agni and Vayu. Some Sauras worship either Vishnu or Shiva as manifestations of Surya, others worship the Trimurti as a manifestation of Surya, and others exclusively worship Surya alone."

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