Mangalsutra

[devotee]

Namaste Renuka,

[SIZE="3"]
As far as I know Paramahansa Yogananda has used to word Lifetrons to describe Prana which He said is negatively charged particles(electrons) in His works God Speaks to Arjuna.

Yes, he used the word "lifetrons" but I don't think he said that these are negatively charged electrons (Otherwise we could have created life by using electrons). Please correct me if I am wrong. First of all, Positive or Negative charges are called so because we call these charges as such for our own convenience. As both are opposite in nature, so we must call them with opposite meaning names. So, in Science parlance, Positive and Negative are indicated for the above purpose and "positive" and "negative" in scientific terms have meaning within limited scope in which these are used.

In spirituality, when we talk of "energy" it is not exactly the same term what scientists use. When we talk of "positive" and "negative", it doesn't mean the same thing as scientists mean by these terms. In Science, presence of extra electrons is called "negatively charged" whereas absence required number of electrons is called "positively charged". As these two conditions are exactly opposite to each other, so is the term. In Science, Energy is defined as "capacity to do work" and it is neutral because science doesn't differentiate between "good work" and "bad work". In spirituality, these terms acquire different meanings as explained below :

"Positive" in spirituality which adds to our well-being and "negative" is what brings out sufferings to us. Here, the energy is not inert energy of science which meekly follows natural laws and appears if no consciousness at all. In spirituality, this term is used for force of mind created by thoughts which affect your physical/mental/spiritual world. A harmful thought creates negative energy (or negative force of mind) as it affects us negatively and a benevolent thought creates positive energy as it affects us positively.

Paramahansa was very specific and His words made perfect sense because Pranamaya Kosha is in between the Annamaya Kosha and the Manomaya Kosha and Prana is responsible for transmission of thoughts from Manomaya Kosha to Annamaya Kosha as a Pranic current.

So ???

As we all know a unidirectional flow of electrons generate electrical impulses and that is how even our brain neurons transmit signals to the body and the body in turn relays inputs to the brain all by a mechanism called depolarization of the cell membranes.

So ???

Now as I said earlier that very often the word Positive Energy is used in religious text but the fact remains that Energy is neither positive nor negative.

Because the meaning of term used in science and meaning of the term used in spirituality are not exactly the same. Both are called energy simply because both have capacity to act upon, that's all !

The so called "Positiveness" or "Negativeness" of Energy in the religious context could be our own perception in regards to our reaction to a particular situation..for example when we meet people who make us feel relaxed and happy we become calm and view that person as radiating "Positive Energy" but just the very next day we fight with that person and we start to dislike that person..the next time we see him/her we start to feel uneasy and feel that person radiates 'Negative Energy"

Sure !

So it seems that finally its our own emotions and personal likes and dislikes that give Energy terms like Positive Energy and Negative Energy.

No. Please look for the answer in para above.

OM

[renuka]

Namaste Ji,

My answers in blue:

Namaste Renuka,

Yes, he used the word "lifetrons" but I don't think he said that these are negatively charged electrons

That is what I read in the book.

(Otherwise we could have created life by using electrons). Please correct me if I am wrong.

Nope..life is not created by electrons.If you are talking of creating life in a petri dish as in cloning we need DNA and a host Ova to nurture it and a simulation of an uterine environment..


In spirituality, when we talk of "energy" it is not exactly the same term what scientists use.

Agreed..its not about a positive or negative charge but the Positive or Negative Energy is actually our own perception an effect of personalizing Energy.

Lets ponder about this..In Geeta there is a stanza that goes the the Atma is neither Masculine,Feminine nor Neuter...this should give us a hint that technically when the Atma is the power house energy that animates our body and the Atma itself does not fit into any classification..so it might be that a physical level the energy that we have around in any form is neither Positive,Negative nor Neutral..(you could disagree with me but its a point for discussion)




"Positive" in spirituality which adds to our well-being and "negative" is what brings out sufferings to us.

[COLOR="Navy"]Yes..its all about our perception on how we feel and its outcome.The human mind is one of the most personalized 'selfcentred" entity which can elevate itself or degrade itself..and that is what exactly Lord Krishna said in Geeta that "

uddhared atmanatmanam
natmanam avasadayet
atmaiva hy atmano bandhur
atmaiva ripur atmanah


A man must elevate himself by his own mind, not degrade himself. The mind is the friend of the conditioned soul, and his enemy as well.
[/COLOR]


Here, the energy is not inert energy of science which meekly follows natural laws and appears if no consciousness at all. In spirituality, this term is used for force of mind created by thoughts which affect your physical/mental/spiritual world. A harmful thought creates negative energy (or negative force of mind) as it affects us negatively and a benevolent thought creates positive energy as it affects us positively.


Again I would like to differ..its our perception of a situation that either makes us or breaks us.

If we have a harmful thought its not becos of a negative energy released that harms us..but rather the sequence of events that takes place that affect our mental and physical well being.
This point is worthy of note cos when we keep blaming positive or negative energy we keep playing the blame game and never realize our faults.

Remember the story of a saint who has visited a house of a person and ate at the house and had an urge to steal a silver plate?
The next day it was found out that the cook had prepared the food used to be a thief and the negative thoughts of the cook had affected the sage?

That is the classical example of the blame game..blaming another person's so called negative effects instead of blaming ourselves.
Could we tell in court if we are arrested for crime that "O it was not me but some other persons negativity that made me commit the crime?"

This is the thinking of blaming others that has led to decay in our own society where some communities were thought to be not conducive for any association and they were kept away from Hindu religion.


So ???



So ???

Coming to all your So?? So??

Ok your 1st So..when I said Paramahansa was specific that is to say that we have to be specific..cos religion itself is logic.
If we use terms loosely without a proper back up then it becomes just a superstition or worse still a delusion.

For your 2nd So?? its for a clearer explanation as how Pranic current and Action Potential depolarization works in similar fashion.




Because the meaning of term used in science and meaning of the term used in spirituality are not exactly the same. Both are called energy simply because both have capacity to act upon, that's all !


Energy is Energy..Positivity or Negativity is our own perception.
Spirituality is the Science of Self Realization.
Science is a methodology to understand a phenomenon.








No. Please look for the answer in para above.

[I]Not able to locate answer..not able to locate answer...mayday maday!LOL/I]

OM

[devotee]

Namaste Renuka,

That is what I read in the book.

Please quote the chapter/verse/para which I can connect. I have the book with me, I am unable to find anything like this in this book.

Nope..life is not created by electrons.If you are talking of creating life in a petri dish as in cloning we need DNA and a host Ova to nurture it and a simulation of an uterine environment..

OK. Can we create life with electrons in any manner and not by method you have mentioned ?

Lets ponder about this..In Geeta there is a stanza that goes the the Atma is neither Masculine,Feminine nor Neuter...this should give us a hint that technically when the Atma is the power house energy that animates our body and the Atma itself does not fit into any classification..so it might be that a physical level the energy that we have around in any form is neither Positive,Negative nor Neutral..(you could disagree with me but its a point for discussion

Do you know what Atma is ? Does Atma radiate energy ? If we assume that Atma is a powerhouse of energy and radiates energy ... why should it radiate only neutral energy and why it can't radiate positive and negative energies separately ?

Yes..its all about our perception on how we feel and its outcome.The human mind is one of the most personalized 'selfcentred" entity which can elevate itself or degrade itself..and that is what exactly Lord Krishna said in Geeta that "

uddhared atmanatmanam
natmanam avasadayet
atmaiva hy atmano bandhur
atmaiva ripur atmanah

A man must elevate himself by his own mind, not degrade himself. The mind is the friend of the conditioned soul, and his enemy as well.

I am tempted to use another "so ?" for the verse you have quoted as it doesn't strengthen the logic you are forwarding in your argument. Here we are discussing "bad" and "good" as mental concepts and not how mind is a friend or a foe of itself. So, imho, this verse doesn't fit in this place.

Yes, "good" and "bad" is due to our mental perception. However, should we use these terms or we should not use that term at all in the state we are ? The terms "good" and "bad" will lose their meaning only when we are not affected physically, mentally or spiritually in any circumstances and then these terms will lose their meaning for us. Are we/you in that state where these words have lost their meanings ?

Ok your 1st So..when I said Paramahansa was specific that is to say that we have to be specific..cos religion itself is logic.
If we use terms loosely without a proper back up then it becomes just a superstition or worse still a delusion.

For your 2nd So?? its for a clearer explanation as how Pranic current and Action Potential depolarization works in similar fashion.

So, you mean to say that PrANic force, which according to you are nothing but stream of electrons, acts the way you have stated ? Any proof for that ?

Not able to locate answer..not able to locate answer...mayday maday!

Look again. May be you can find it.

OM

[hinduism♥krishna]

PranAm, Everyone.

There was a golden time when devoted women to her husbands used to go sati ie in funeral fire of husband & eventually in heaven or sometimes Vaikuntha, there was a cold feeling of meeting the body of husband even in the blazing fire, And now see some women are hesitating to use even Mangalsutra. It seems so much degradation of women in this kali Yuga. Really what purana predicted about women of Kali Yuga is very true.

[renuka]

PranAm, Everyone.

There was a golden time when devoted women to her husbands used to go sati ie in funeral fire of husband & eventually in heaven or sometimes Vaikuntha, there was a cold feeling of meeting the body of husband even in the blazing fire, And now see some women are hesitating to use even Mangalsutra. It seems so much degradation of women in this kali Yuga. Really what purana predicted about women of Kali Yuga is very true.

Pranam ji,

Sati was a form of Atma Hatya..it is inhumane to consider Sati a Golden Time that a woman should suffer a dreadful death.

Have you ever seen a burns victim? Do you know how much pain they suffer?

Why no man jumped into his wife's pyre?

Doesn't he want to meet her in some heavenly loka?

It must be fear..thats all and the feeling that a man can marry again and live happily ever after.


One should try to hold a piece of burning wood and get a 2nd degree burns wound and suffer the pain..only then one will know how painful a fiery death is.

Please kindly dont glorify Sati..you might not really know their pain.

Its not the effect of Kali Yuga or any degradation..its just that times have changed.

Those days a life of a widow meant hell..a person would be denied even proper food and a social standing.

Some were forced to shave their head and only wear white.

So in view of all that a widow would be thinking that its better to suffer the pain of a fiery death instead of suffering in the hands of inlaws.

But these days a widow can still work..support herself and may be get remarried if she meets the right man.

Wake up.

[renuka]

Look again. May be you can find it.

OM

Namaste Ji,

Not found yet.

[hinduism♥krishna]

Pranam ji,

Sati was a form of Atma Hatya..it is inhumane to consider Sati a Golden Time that a woman should suffer a dreadful death.

Have you ever seen a burns victim? Do you know how much pain they suffer?

Why no man jumped into his wife's pyre?

Doesn't he want to meet her in some heavenly loka?

It must be fear..thats all and the feeling that a man can marry again and live happily ever after.


One should try to hold a piece of burning wood and get a 2nd degree burns wound and suffer the pain..only then one will know how painful a fiery death is.

Please kindly dont glorify Sati..you might not really know their pain.

Its not the effect of Kali Yuga or any degradation..its just that times have changed.

Those days a life of a widow meant hell..a person would be denied even proper food and a social standing.

Some were forced to shave their head and only wear white.

So in view of all that a widow would be thinking that its better to suffer the pain of a fiery death instead of suffering in the hands of inlaws.

But these days a widow can still work..support herself and may be get remarried if she meets the right man.

Wake up.

PranAm Renuka,

No need to bash our sacred vaidik tradition of Sati. From the study on Purana and Itihasa we come to know ancient history of Hindus. In Scriptures, nowhere sati is mentioned as evil rather it is praised. Scriptures hail to such woman who enter into fire with intense devotion thinking her husband as God Vishnu himself.

The truth of sati is that it was never forceful. Women themselves used to enter into their husband's funeral fire. That's is a part of devotion and I think no one can comprehend such devotion to husband.

Rukmini devi-incarnation, wife of Bhagavan Krishna, entered into funeral fire of him. So do you think it was forceful? Besides, not all widow women used to go for sati. Those who'd small children, they were not following Sati. One of the example is of Kunti. She didn't follow sati as her sons pandava were young.

In short, Sati tradition was never forceful. It was all dependent on one's own decision. However unfortunately in the flow of time some evil minded persons made it mandatory to widows.

Anti-hindus can say blah blah on this to defame Hinsuism. They intentionally don't talk about that Sati which wasn't forceful at all. But we don't care. Yes, I believe in Sati and not support to follow it once again in this Yuga. Because prerequisite for entering into fire is the intense devotion to husband as god, which is surely lacking in today's women. Todays women view their husbands as their source of income and as a protection. If you are saying about those women who love, then I say that that same woman feels fear while sitting near to dead body and finally she leaves his husband's body. So where's true love? There's nothing like true love in this mortal world. Only the love towards God is true love and he never leaves his sons Jiva even after their death. For him no one is greater or lower.

Thus true love between wife and husband is like the love between devotee and god. Husband is her god and she worships him as god. Scriptures say such devoted woman reaches the highest abode of Vishnu, Vaikuntha, along with his husband.

So you should wake up. The devotion to Hari is the only way. The devotion to Hari is the only way. Nothingness is nothing

While typing this post, I'm seeing there outside from the window of room, clouds are raining heavily. The love emerging out from nature by Union with the rain, cows are eating grass, Im observing them, they look very happy, as if vishnu is pleasing them in the form of dark rain cloud, feeling great, the love is everywhere, thus the devotion is everywhere. I'm wondering is love different from Supreme Brahman Vishnu?

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté

We worship Maa and yet the Laws of Manu would have me throw myself on my husband's funeral pyre.

I only mention this to offer clarity for the reader.

The laws of manu ( manu smṛti) are applicable for sat yuga. For our time (kali) it is parāśara smṛti¹. A finer point, but the ~rules~ are different pending the yuga one participates in.

iti śivaṁ


1. parāśara smṛti - https://archive.org/details/ParasharaSmriti please read the first 24 śloka-s.

[renuka]

PranAm Renuka,

No need to bash our sacred vaidik tradition of Sati. From the study on Purana and Itihasa we come to know ancient history of Hindus. In Scriptures, nowhere sati is mentioned as evil rather it is praised. Scriptures hail to such woman who enter into fire with intense devotion thinking her husband as God Vishnu himself.

The truth of sati is that it was never forceful. Women themselves used to enter into their husband's funeral fire. That's is a part of devotion and I think no one can comprehend such devotion to husband.

Rukmini devi-incarnation, wife of Bhagavan Krishna, entered into funeral fire of him. So do you think it was forceful? Besides, not all widow women used to go for sati. Those who'd small children, they were not following Sati. One of the example is of Kunti. She didn't follow sati as her sons pandava were young.

In short, Sati tradition was never forceful. It was all dependent on one's own decision. However unfortunately in the flow of time some evil minded persons made it mandatory to widows.

Anti-hindus can say blah blah on this to defame Hinsuism. They intentionally don't talk about that Sati which wasn't forceful at all. But we don't care. Yes, I believe in Sati and not support to follow it once again in this Yuga. Because prerequisite for entering into fire is the intense devotion to husband as god, which is surely lacking in today's women. Todays women view their husbands as their source of income and as a protection. If you are saying about those women who love, then I say that that same woman feels fear while sitting near to dead body and finally she leaves his husband's body. So where's true love? There's nothing like true love in this mortal world. Only the love towards God is true love and he never leaves his sons Jiva even after their death. For him no one is greater or lower.

Thus true love between wife and husband is like the love between devotee and god. Husband is her god and she worships him as god. Scriptures say such devoted woman reaches the highest abode of Vishnu, Vaikuntha, along with his husband.

So you should wake up. The devotion to Hari is the only way. The devotion to Hari is the only way. Nothingness is nothing

While typing this post, I'm seeing there outside from the window of room, clouds are raining heavily. The love emerging out from nature by Union with the rain, cows are eating grass, Im observing them, they look very happy, as if vishnu is pleasing them in the form of dark rain cloud, feeling great, the love is everywhere, thus the devotion is everywhere. I'm wondering is love different from Supreme Brahman Vishnu?

Namaste Ji,

Yes true devotion to Hari or Hara is fine provided no one is forced to commit a glorified suicide in the name of Sati.

No amount of glorification can make out the loss of a life.

May be in life you havent seen enough death and suffering.In the line of my job I see enough pain,suffering and death.

Whether Sati is voluntary or not the fact remains that its an inhumane act to roast a person alive.

Why no man is burnt alive? If a husband is glorified as God shouldnt his wife to be a Devi?

So why no husband get burnt?

It only shows that its man who made all these rules cos they are so sure that every man reaches Vaikunta!LOL

What is a wife is devoted but she has a husband who is totally useless in every sense...where does she go after death? Because her husband is surely not going to reach Vaikunta isnt it? So does she follow him to Hell?LOL

BTW there is one point that we all fail to realize that woman of the past also spoke their mind openly and have rejected husbands decision.

Lets take Seeta for example:

1)When Lord Rama wanted to take her back again after He was reunited with His sons..He told her to go through another fire ordeal and She said No.
She went back into earth and rejected Lord Rama.

She spoke her mind..she was not willing to be treated sans dignity all over again.

So technically it was Seeta who "Divorced" Lord Rama.

I know traditionalist would find this view totally Blasphemous and might also say that actually it was all role play and it was time up for the Rama avatar so every character in Ramayan ended their lives in some way or the other.

2)Next is Draupadi..she was always bold to speak her mind and rejected the idea of Yudhisthira putting her as a pawn when he had already lost himself.She questioned his decision.

3)Ahalya..the controversy still remains..did she know or did she not know it was Indra in disguise? No one really knows because there are 2 versions of the story..one says she did not know and it was Indra that deceived her and another version said she did not know initially but realized it later that it was Indra but felt elated that the King of Devas fancied her.

Either way she was bold enough to make her own decision.

The Indian mindset loves to praise a woman who suffers for a man..a true human is a person who would eradicate suffering and not glorify it.

Its better to be a rank atheist than to glorify inhumane acts of self immolation of the Sati kind.

None of us really know for sure if Rukimini commited Sati because Puranas are famous for distorting facts..is the same Purana that depicts Lord Krishna as having 16,008 wives when in fact that is not entirely true.

Sathya Sai Baba had given the meaning of 16,008 wives which is like this:

The Hridaya Chakra has 8 petals and Krishna is the Lord of this 8 petals..hence have 8 principle wives.

Next the Sahasrara Chakra has 1000 petals and each petal has 16 kalas and all together is 16,000 and Krishna is also the Lord of these 16,000..so 16,000 +8 = 16,0008 and this got misinterpreted as 16,008 wives.




Now coming to is Love different from Supreme Vishnu?

True Unconditional Love is what God is all about but that is Divine Love.

All human forms of love is conditional..even maternal love has some sprinkles of conditional love.

[NayaSurya]

Namaste,

So this is my first ever thread and it's only because A) I searched the forums and haven't seen this topic come up (if it has before please forgive me for reposting it) and B) I feel in need of some spiritual help that I am not sure my Pandit could give me.

I've considered myself a member of "Hinduism" for about 9 years now although not Orthodox by any means I still identify myself most closely with Sanatana Dharma. I bought myself a Mangalsutra shortly after finding my path and have worn it religiously (haha) only taking it off for medical treatments and the like. However earlier this year it started to need some repairs and instead of wearing it and damaging it more I've left it in the hands of Maa and now comes the point at which I need help...

I am starting to doubt my belief in the black beads.

There I wrote it, I actually put it out there in text for the world to see. *deep breath*

I am still spiritually a "Hindu" but I almost wonder if Moksha is working on me and my knowledge is going beyond these seemingly superstitious beliefs. And why should I be the one to have to bear it when my husband does not? Is Maa not just as important? Is my life not equal to my husband's? I should include here that I do not accept the Laws of Manu whatsoever and am absolutely disinterested in any teachings of any faith that would have me trail after my husband like a dog.

But the Mangalsutra? I don't know.

I would most appreciate hearing words from other's on this path on either side of the fence. Thank you.

Oki, hello...I am going to side step all this other stuff and come back to your post.

I was driving to the temple yesterday, it's a long long long drive each week and I was thinking of you.

You see, I read your question and because of the heat, I remained silent. But at the temple I saw a friend of mine, a native Hindu woman who is almost wearing the same rings as me.

She wears this beautiful round blue bezel setting, low flat and the back of the stone, touching the skin...and an opal on another finger, just as mine.

Her rings are each almost identical to mine, and she isn't alone....I know at least 20 or so other women with the same rings on!

Now, here's the funny part.

I didn't know that was correct fingers to put those rings on...and I didn't understand why I insisted on bezel settings to have the stones resting on my skin....and I did all of this nearly 30 years ago...when there was no way that I could have known the true goodness of it.

The Saturn in my chart is ridiculously high, and here all of my adult life...I have worn the correct ring on the correct finger for this...


So I would say there is something beyond our understanding about certain things within Dharma. What one might think is just some silly ritual started for no reason could have some secret underlying goodly reason...and because of time we may not fully understand this.

I was born to question everything, push against the edges...test the limits and rattle my cage.

I have learned this a very foolish group of activities.

In my older age...I have become still.