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Thread: Mangalsutra

  1. #1

    Mangalsutra

    Namaste,

    So this is my first ever thread and it's only because A) I searched the forums and haven't seen this topic come up (if it has before please forgive me for reposting it) and B) I feel in need of some spiritual help that I am not sure my Pandit could give me.

    I've considered myself a member of "Hinduism" for about 9 years now although not Orthodox by any means I still identify myself most closely with Sanatana Dharma. I bought myself a Mangalsutra shortly after finding my path and have worn it religiously (haha) only taking it off for medical treatments and the like. However earlier this year it started to need some repairs and instead of wearing it and damaging it more I've left it in the hands of Maa and now comes the point at which I need help...

    I am starting to doubt my belief in the black beads.

    There I wrote it, I actually put it out there in text for the world to see. *deep breath*

    I am still spiritually a "Hindu" but I almost wonder if Moksha is working on me and my knowledge is going beyond these seemingly superstitious beliefs. And why should I be the one to have to bear it when my husband does not? Is Maa not just as important? Is my life not equal to my husband's? I should include here that I do not accept the Laws of Manu whatsoever and am absolutely disinterested in any teachings of any faith that would have me trail after my husband like a dog.

    But the Mangalsutra? I don't know.

    I would most appreciate hearing words from other's on this path on either side of the fence. Thank you.

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    Re: Mangalsutra

    Namaste,

    Welcome to the forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieJoh View Post
    There I wrote it, I actually put it out there in text for the world to see. *deep breath*
    Not sure how you figured that the whole world is going to see your thoughts in text. Very few people come to the forum and even fewer care about the mundane stuff that we post here.

    I would presume that in the old times men held jobs and women were the homemakers. So, women were dependent on men for everything and took good care of them. Additionally, a widow did not have much of a social standing in the community. So, they prayed for, performed austerities for (like fasting on certain days) and followed some traditions (like wearing a mangalsooter) for the long life of their husbands. In today's world, a lot has changed and some of the old rules don't apply. That is why most Hindus living in the metropolitan areas of India and having a two income family just live a Hindu life without thinking much about Manu Samriti or any other Samriti. If black beads bother you or following any of the traditions gives you the feeling of being a slave to your husband, or feeling less than him, by all means discontinue observing that tradition. Anything done unwillingly, just because of social pressure, defeats the purpose of the observance. I am sure that is what you wanted to hear.

    All or most of the traditions started with a purpose. Nothing is superstition; just the explanations of the causes for a great many rituals/observances are not easily available. If something makes one uncomfortable, it can and should be dropped. This in no way puts a distance between the devotee and the Hindu philosophy. On the contrary, the freedom from a rigid set of rules makes one's bond to the faith stronger. The core values must be upheld and the basic philosophy followed in our daily lives. The fluff can be compromised if it chokes a person's life and growth.

    Pranam.

    PS: BTW, we prefer the term Hindu adoptee rather than a Hindu convert in this forum.

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    Re: Mangalsutra

    hello,

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieJoh View Post
    Namaste,

    So this is my first ever thread and it's only because A) I searched the forums and haven't seen this topic come up (if it has before please forgive me for reposting it) and B) I feel in need of some spiritual help that I am not sure my Pandit could give me.

    I've considered myself a member of "Hinduism" for about 9 years now although not Orthodox by any means I still identify myself most closely with Sanatana Dharma. I bought myself a Mangalsutra shortly after finding my path and have worn it religiously (haha) only taking it off for medical treatments and the like. However earlier this year it started to need some repairs and instead of wearing it and damaging it more I've left it in the hands of Maa and now comes the point at which I need help...

    I am starting to doubt my belief in the black beads.

    There I wrote it, I actually put it out there in text for the world to see. *deep breath*

    I am still spiritually a "Hindu" but I almost wonder if Moksha is working on me and my knowledge is going beyond these seemingly superstitious beliefs. And why should I be the one to have to bear it when my husband does not? Is Maa not just as important? Is my life not equal to my husband's? I should include here that I do not accept the Laws of Manu whatsoever and am absolutely disinterested in any teachings of any faith that would have me trail after my husband like a dog.

    But the Mangalsutra? I don't know.

    I would most appreciate hearing words from other's on this path on either side of the fence. Thank you.
    Dont worry too much about the Mangalsutra cos the actual Vedic Ceremony does NOT have the Mangalsutra and not all Hindu communities have a Mangalsutra to start with.

    In South of India the Mangalsutra is called Thali in Tamil Nadu and Thali is from the Sanskrit word meaning Palm Leave...a Palm Tree is called a Thala Vruksha..before that marriage used to be solemnized by the 'Kankanabhandana" where strings are tied around wrist of both bride and groom.

    In ancient days a woman was considered a men's property and a Palm leaf ties to her neck was considered a name tag and it was considered a social practice rather than a religious practice.


    So its frankly up to us women to decide if we want to adhere to tradition or move with the times.
    As a female myself I do question many times why males do not have signs and symbols or marriage and we females have to have sign and symbols of marriage and decided to do away with any external sign of marriage to be fair to females too but the fact remains that Marriage is a Union of Heart and one needs to know that and be happy with spouse.

    So frankly speaking its up to you to decide if you want to wear it or not and dont worry no harm will befall anyone cos our death has been determined at the date of our birth.
    Last edited by yajvan; 20 July 2014 at 11:03 AM.

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    Re: Mangalsutra

    Namaste Maggie,

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieJoh View Post
    I bought myself a Mangalsutra shortly after finding my path and have worn it religiously (haha) only taking it off for medical treatments and the like. However earlier this year it started to need some repairs and instead of wearing it and damaging it more I've left it in the hands of Maa and now comes the point at which I need help...
    Your post is confusing to me. Mangalsutra is bought by husband for his wife and he puts it on the neck of the bride at the time of marriage. Here you say that "you purchased it and wore it" ... which is intriguing to me. Mangalsutra is a sign of married woman and she wears it everyday wishing a long life for her husband and with a vow to remain fully devoted to her husband.

    I am starting to doubt my belief in the black beads.
    There I wrote it, I actually put it out there in text for the world to see. *deep breath*
    It is nothing so great to be so much worried about it.

    I am still spiritually a "Hindu" but I almost wonder if Moksha is working on me and my knowledge is going beyond these seemingly superstitious beliefs. And why should I be the one to have to bear it when my husband does not? Is Maa not just as important? Is my life not equal to my husband's? I should include here that I do not accept the Laws of Manu whatsoever and am absolutely disinterested in any teachings of any faith that would have me trail after my husband like a dog.
    You do whatever you feel is right for you. See, whether it is important or it is not depends upon what you think about it. When the Hindu marriage takes place, it is not only the bride but the bridegroom also takes required vows to keep the sanctity of marriage institution and for leading a spiritual, healthy and happy conjugal life. I don't understand why wearing a Mangalsutra offends you so much if you really love your husband and if it makes him happy if you wear it. What is the harm ? It is not bondage but love. The bondage can be there even without this sacred thread (like in Muslims) and you can be free and loved even if you wear it (in traditional Hindu family). Do you think that Hindu married women who wear it are treated like slaves by their husbands ? ... It is a very narrow-minded thinking. Let's feel proud of our customs and traditions. A small symbolism goes a long way to promote and maintain love in our lives. This may seem trivial but it can play an important role if you give it the value it deserves.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Mangalsutra

    PranAm,

    I haven't seen any married Hindu women who don't wear Mangal-Sutra. It should be worn only on Hindu ceremony of marriage in the presence of Brahmana and Devas who are pleased in Yadnyas. If it's worn without this, it just becomes Sutra, not Mangala-Sutra. Sutra can be Mangala-Divine only in the presence of Brahmana and Devata, otherwise, I think, it's no value.

    So I'll suggest you there's no need to wear it if you are not Hindu Born. You're free to act whatever you like. And If you're Hindu and still you didn't wear it after marriage, then it's an insulation to divine mangalasutra and so its Mangala-Divineness has been vanished. However you can wear it just as a fashion or sign of marriage. But Divineness is something other thing!

    Btw, How Mangalasutra becomes Hot topic? As I see, It's all normal here in Hindu societies.

    Dhanayosi....
    Last edited by hinduism♥krishna; 16 July 2014 at 12:15 AM.

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    Re: Mangalsutra

    Vannakkam:

    I too was confused, like Devotee. But here's a testimony to it's importance.

    The thali was the only reason for my third wedding. Sometimes I say I've been married 3 times, then pause, ... all to the same woman.

    The first one was a civil wedding, the second was a small religious one. Back then there were no priests, and if there were, they weren't Canadian government approved to sign legal documents like marriage, so all Hindu newlyweds had two weddings.

    That (late 70s) was also a transition period for us ... just when we were studying Hinduism in preparation to enter the faith, starting to get to know our Tamil friends. Somehow in all this we missed the thali tying. So the Tamil people noticed and informed us almost that we weren't really even married. They helped out in many small ways, and about 8 years after the civil marriage, we had another small wedding ... skipped most everything else. I guess another way to look at it is the wedding lasted 8 years.

    So the mangalasutra is really important. (for adoptees, think ring in Abrahamism)

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Mangalsutra

    Namaste,

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    So the mangalasutra is really important. (for adoptees, think ring in Abrahamism)
    +1

    But if,
    1. it was not presented by the husband at the time of marriage,
    2. the beads evoke feelings of negativity
    3. it starts to feel like it is being worn more for social reasons than what it is meant to be for

    then, what purpose does it serve?

    Some degree of rationalism and common sense has to play into this scenario. It may be the time to step back and rethink whether the wearer likes/wants to wear it, in view of the master/slave feelings that it seems to brings up.

    Traditions are nice to follow. They symbolize our commitment and our love for the faith. But when they turn negative and may impact our association with the faith, perhaps it is time to take a break from the traditions, rather than from the faith itself. Time to look at the forest, rather than be fixated at a single tree.

    Pranam.

    PS, I thought the red powder in the hair parting was equivalent to 'ring in Abrahamism', not the Mangasooter. Over half the Hindu population in India can't afford to buy a speck of gold, much less a Mangalsooter. We tend to transpose our wealth status on the rest of the world.
    Last edited by Believer; 16 July 2014 at 09:55 AM.

  8. #8

    Re: Mangalsutra

    Ah the varied and at times insulting responses of a community as diverse as ours LOL

    My husband and I were not married in a Hindu ceremony I am sorry if that part caused any confusing. I came to the faith after us being married for a year and a half. Which is why I bought it and wore it, my husband did not present it at the wedding.

    There maybe reasons for the Mangalsutra but can anyone tell me? They are not actually in any scripture (I've looked relentlessly). It seems like many practices to have been cultural and then adopted as something religious (like the niqab in Islam). Isn't it a bit far to say that if you're Hindu born you *must* wear it? I tend to agree that this type of idea is like focusing on a single tree.

    We worship Maa and yet the Laws of Manu would have me throw myself on my husband's funeral pyre. The only symbol of marriage for a Hindu man is his thread (and even single men have these) and yet a woman is supposed to don the mangalsutra (black beads protecting her husband, what does he wear to protect his wife?), toe ring, nose ring, sindoor and if they have the money a ring oh and bangles AND her thread on the left wrist. How does this seem like equality?

    You say the Mangalsutra is important but WHY? My husband and I will be celebrating our 11th wedding anniversary on Saturday a marriage that many said would fail because I was barely 20 when we wed. And for part of the time I have worn the Mangalsutra and for part of it I haven't.

    So why do you think it's important? I am not trying to be rude I am simply trying to understand why it's considered important.

    Do you see it as a symbol of your faith? Do you see it representing more than a wedding ring?

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    Re: Mangalsutra

    Namaste,

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieJoh View Post
    Ah the varied and at times insulting responses of a community as diverse as ours LOL
    Life would be pretty boring if every bird in a garden sang the same tune. Enjoy what you like and tune out the rest, no use complaining to/about the 'made up' minds!

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieJoh View Post
    I tend to agree that this type of idea is like focusing on a single tree.
    You don't whole heartedly agree even with the sanest thing said to you, just tend to agree?

    Pranam.

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    Re: Mangalsutra

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieJoh View Post
    Ah the varied and at times insulting responses of a community as diverse as ours LOL

    My husband and I were not married in a Hindu ceremony I am sorry if that part caused any confusing. I came to the faith after us being married for a year and a half. Which is why I bought it and wore it, my husband did not present it at the wedding.

    There maybe reasons for the Mangalsutra but can anyone tell me? They are not actually in any scripture (I've looked relentlessly). It seems like many practices to have been cultural and then adopted as something religious (like the niqab in Islam). Isn't it a bit far to say that if you're Hindu born you *must* wear it? I tend to agree that this type of idea is like focusing on a single tree.

    We worship Maa and yet the Laws of Manu would have me throw myself on my husband's funeral pyre. The only symbol of marriage for a Hindu man is his thread (and even single men have these) and yet a woman is supposed to don the mangalsutra (black beads protecting her husband, what does he wear to protect his wife?), toe ring, nose ring, sindoor and if they have the money a ring oh and bangles AND her thread on the left wrist. How does this seem like equality?

    You say the Mangalsutra is important but WHY? My husband and I will be celebrating our 11th wedding anniversary on Saturday a marriage that many said would fail because I was barely 20 when we wed. And for part of the time I have worn the Mangalsutra and for part of it I haven't.

    So why do you think it's important? I am not trying to be rude I am simply trying to understand why it's considered important.

    Do you see it as a symbol of your faith? Do you see it representing more than a wedding ring?

    Dear Maggie,

    As a female I think I would understand you better..let me try sharing my thoughts on this.

    There is a mantra in South of India when the Mangalsutra is tied..its goes as this

    | Mangalyam tantunanena mama jeevana hetuna: kanthe badhnami subhage twam jeeva sarada satam
    “This is a sacred thread. This is essential for my long life. I tie this around your neck O maiden having many auspicious attributes. May you live happily for a hundred years (with me
    ).



    Firstly if you look at the grammar..the word is badhnAmi..which means "I tie"..
    but in Tamil marriages its the priest that recites this..when technically it should be the groom who should recite this..so one can also ask "Who actually married the bride? The priest or the groom?"

    May be long back grooms recited this stanza but as time went on may be no one bothered to learn this stanza which is deemed so important but yet no one today recites it himself when he ties the Mangalsutra.

    At least if it is so important..than the stanza can be changed to 3rd person and sound like

    Mangalyam tantunanena tasya jeevana hetuna: kanthe badhnati subhage twam jeeva sarada satam ..

    that would mean that the priest is saying "This is a sacred thread. This is essential for his(the grooms) long life. He ties this around your neck O maiden having many auspicious attributes. May you live happily for a hundred years"

    Now lets look logically..life and death is NOT in our hands.
    Women who wear all signs and symbols of marriage too have become widows..so technically a Mangalsutra is not going to change anyone's Karma when it comes to life and death.

    It more of a social status and social identity. Women of the past never really had an identity..her social status depended very much on the existence of her husband so it was just a social custom to pray for well being of husband so that one can have some amount of social standing.

    Widows were badly treated in the past and some are still badly treated.

    So a woman always hoped that her mangalsutra would give her some respect and place in society.

    Its just a symbol..thats all.

    You are free to not wear it if you do not wish too..its not mandatory.

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