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Thread: Did Krishna give up his body?

  1. #1
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    Question Did Krishna give up his body?

    Pranam, Accept my Polite thread with light hearted..

    There are many views among us on Shri Krishna. There's always a big battle between Dvaitians and Advaitians on the subject of Krishna's Body. Dvaitians claim that krishna's form itself is Brahman while Advaitians claim Krishna's true nature which is formless is Brahman. However Advaitians give many incidences from Mahabharata where Krishna's body was hurted with flowing blood. So they say how can there be blood if Krishna's body itself is Brahman? Such so many arguments. Some think Krishna had a spiritual body while other think Krishna's body was physical but was spiritualised [ Sat-Chit-Ananda Vigraha ] and some poor atheists think that Krishna was just a person and had a physical body. Ignore them

    From Vishnu-Purana

    == How Krishna actually left his body ==

    भगवानपि गोविन्दो वासुदेवात्मकं परं |
    ब्रह्मात्मनि समारोप्य सर्वभुतेश्वधारयत |
    निष्प्रपन्चे महाभाग संयोज्यात्मान्मात्मनि |
    तुर्यवस्थं सलिलं च शेते स्म पुरुषोत्तमः || Vishnu Purana 5.37.66

    " Thus Bhagavan Krishna too, by attributing himself in ParaBrahman, put all living beings in himself. Then by merging his self in Pure Atma, he, who is best among men, established himself in Turya-State [ which is beyond waking-dreaming-dreamless sates] with ease.


    गते तस्मिन्स भगवन्सन्योज्यात्मनि |
    ब्रह्मभूत अव्ययः अचिन्त्ये वासुदेवमये अमले || 5.37.74
    अजन्मन्यमरे विष्णावप्रमेये अखिलात्मनि |
    तत्याज मानुषं देहं अतीत्य त्रिविधां गतिम् || 5.37.75

    "Then the illustrious Krishńa, having united himself with pure, spiritual, inexhaustible, inconceivable, unborn, undecaying, imperishable, and universal spirit, which is one with Vishnu, abandoned his mortal human body by crossing over the condition of the threefold qualities"

    == What happened after he merged in Brahman ==

    पराशर उवाच :

    अर्जुनोऽपि तदान्विष्य रामकृष्णकलेवरे
    संस्कारं लम्भयामास तथान्येषांनुक्रमात || Vishnu Purana 5.38.1

    "ARJUNA having found the bodies of Krishńa and of [Bala]Rama, performed for them, and the rest of the slain, the obsequial rites [Death Rights]"

    अष्टौ महिष्यः कथिता रुक्मिनिप्रमुखास्तु या: |
    उपगुह्य हरेर्देहं विविशुस्ता हुताशनम् || 5.38.2
    रेवती चापि रामस्य देहामाश्लिष्य सत्तमा |
    विवेश ज्वलितं वन्हिं तत्सन्गा अल्हादशीतलम् || 5.38.3

    "The eight queens of Krishńa, who have been named, with Rukmini at their head, embraced the body of Hari, and entered the funeral fire [Sati] . Revati also, embracing the corpse of Rama, entered the blazing pile, which was cool to her, happy in contact with her lord. Hearing these events, Ugrasena and Anakadundubhi, with Devaki and Rohini, committed themselves to the flames . The last ceremonies were performed for all these by Arjuna, who then made all the people leave the city, and took Vajra with him.


    I'm here giving couple of verses from Bhagavata Purana as well which mentions that krishna really gave up his body of Krishna-Form. It supports that Krishna is something different from his krishna-form.


    ययाहरद् भुवो भारं तां तनुं विजहावजः ।
    कण्टकं कण्टकेनेव द्वयं चापीशितुः समम् ॥ Bhagavta Purana 1.15.३४ ॥

    : " From which body Krishna took away burden of the earth was left by Krishna, even as removing a thorn by another thorn. For Ishwara both ( bodies of others and his body itself ) are same "

    यथा मत्स्यादिरूपाणि धत्ते जह्याद् यथा नटः ।
    भूभारः क्षपितो येन जहौ तच्च कलेवरम् ॥ ३५ ॥

    : " Even as he acquires fish like forms and then gives up, he gave up that body with which he removed the burden on the earth. "

    EDITED: More proofs/Verses from Vishnu Purana are added in #25 post. Check it out.

    Share your views of how you perceive this. What do you think? Did Krushna give up his body? Is Krishna different from his Body? Is he originally formless Brahman?

    Thus Ends. Thank You.

    Last edited by hinduism♥krishna; 15 July 2014 at 01:40 AM.
    Hari On!

  2. #2
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    Re: Did Krishna give up his body?

    Pranam

    Following verses from Bhagvat Gita may answer your light hearted thread!

    4.9 janma karma ca me divyam
    evam yo vetti tattvatah
    tyaktva deham punar janma
    naiti mam eti so 'rjuna
    9.11avajananti mam mudha
    manusim tanum asritam
    param bhavam ajananto
    mama bhuta-mahesvaram
    15. 17/18
    uttamah purusas tv anyah
    paramatmety udahrtah
    yo loka-trayam avisya
    bibharty avyaya isvarah
    yasmat ksaram atito 'ham
    aksarad api cottamah
    ato 'smi loke vede ca
    prathitah purusottamah


    TRANSLATION last two verse

    Besides these two, there is the greatest living personality, the Lord Himself, who has entered into these worlds and is maintaining them.

    Because I am transcendental, beyond both the fallible and the infallible, and because I am the greatest, I am celebrated both in the world and in the Vedas as that Supreme Person.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  3. #3
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    Re: Did Krishna give up his body?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post

    TRANSLATION last two verse

    Besides these two, there is the greatest living personality, the Lord Himself, who has entered into these worlds and is maintaining them.

    Because I am transcendental, beyond both the fallible and the infallible, and because I am the greatest, I am celebrated both in the world and in the Vedas as that Supreme Person.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    I think, these verses are irrelevant to the subject of the thread. I of Ishwara is most of the times referred to Nirguna Brahman. Besides I think, veda doesn't mention Brahman as a form.
    यन्मनसा न मनुते येनाहु: मनो मतम् ।
    तदेव ब्रम्ह त्वं विद्धि नेदं यदिदमुपासते । kenopanishad 1.5 ।

    " That which is not thought by mind but by which mind thinks, know this alone to be Brahman, not that which is being worshipped here "


  4. #4
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    Re: Did Krishna give up his body?

    Quote Originally Posted by hinduism♥krishna View Post
    I think, these verses are irrelevant to the subject of the thread. I of Ishwara is most of the times referred to Nirguna Brahman. Besides I think, veda doesn't mention Brahman as a form.
    यन्मनसा न मनुते येनाहु: मनो मतम् ।
    तदेव ब्रम्ह त्वं विद्धि नेदं यदिदमुपासते । kenopanishad 1.5 ।

    " That which is not thought by mind but by which mind thinks, know this alone to be Brahman, not that which is being worshipped here "

    It doesn't matter what we think but this is what Lord Krishna is saying in Bhagvat Gita.
    Off course one may dismiss it as irrelevant, I have no qualms about that.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

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    Re: Did Krishna give up his body?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    It doesn't matter what we think but this is what Lord Krishna is saying in Bhagvat Gita.
    Off course one may dismiss it as irrelevant, I have no qualms about that.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    " O king, know the Birth, acts and disappearance of the Supreme Lord among embodied human
    beings, to be a mere acting by the power of His Maya" [ Bhagavata 11.31.11]


    The acts and Birth of Krishna are divine , but he himself remains aloof from them, who remembers them gets realised. Because by tattva, Nirguna Brahman and Krishna are indifferent. Whatever devotees do archan, stavan, manan all goes to Nirguna Brahman only as it is of the nature of all-pervasiveness and Ekmeva and Advitiya. Even this Maya too is not different from Brahman.

    This is what Krishna is saying through those verses.
    Last edited by hinduism♥krishna; 30 June 2014 at 03:37 AM.

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    Re: Did Krishna give up his body?

    Pranam

    Quote Originally Posted by hinduism♥krishna View Post
    " O king, know the Birth, acts and disappearance of the Supreme Lord among embodied human
    beings, to be a mere acting by the power of His Maya" [ Bhagavata 11.31.11]


    The acts and Birth of Krishna are divine , but he himself remains aloof from them, who remembers them gets realised. Because by tattva, Nirguna Brahman and Krishna are indifferent. Whatever devotees do archan, stavan, manan all goes to Nirguna Brahman only as it is of the nature of all-pervasiveness and Ekmeva and Advitiya. Even this Maya too is not different from Brahman.

    This is what Krishna is saying through those verses.
    Off course we have our predilection through which we view all those verses and I really have no problem with that.
    This is Arjun perspective his realisation;


    TEXT 12-13

    arjuna uvaca
    param brahma param dhama
    pavitram paramam bhavan
    purusam sasvatam divyam
    adi-devam ajam vibhum

    ahus tvam rsayah sarve
    devarsir naradas tatha
    asito devalo vyasah
    svayam caiva bravisi me

    Arjuna said: You are the Supreme Brahman, the ultimate, the supreme abode and purifier, the Absolute Truth and the eternal divine person. You are the primal God, transcendental and original, and You are the unborn and all-pervading beauty. All the great sages such as Narada, Asita, Devala, and Vyasa proclaim this of You, and now You Yourself are declaring it to me.


    TEXT 15

    svayam evatmanatmanam
    vettha tvam purusottama
    bhuta-bhavana bhutesa
    deva-deva jagat-pate

    Indeed, You alone know Yourself by Your own potencies, O origin of all, Lord of all beings, God of gods, O Supreme Person, Lord of the universe!

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  7. #7
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    Re: Did Krishna give up his body?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    Pranam



    Off course we have our predilection through which we view all those verses and I really have no problem with that.
    This is Arjun perspective his realisation;


    TEXT 12-13

    arjuna uvaca
    param brahma param dhama
    pavitram paramam bhavan
    purusam sasvatam divyam
    adi-devam ajam vibhum

    ahus tvam rsayah sarve
    devarsir naradas tatha
    asito devalo vyasah
    svayam caiva bravisi me

    Arjuna said: You are the Supreme Brahman, the ultimate, the supreme abode and purifier, the Absolute Truth and the eternal divine person. You are the primal God, transcendental and original, and You are the unborn and all-pervading beauty. All the great sages such as Narada, Asita, Devala, and Vyasa proclaim this of You, and now You Yourself are declaring it to me.


    TEXT 15

    svayam evatmanatmanam
    vettha tvam purusottama
    bhuta-bhavana bhutesa
    deva-deva jagat-pate

    Indeed, You alone know Yourself by Your own potencies, O origin of all, Lord of all beings, God of gods, O Supreme Person, Lord of the universe!

    Jai Shree Krishna

    Before his realisation, Arjuna used to think him as his friend. But after seeing the Vishwarupa Arjuna realized that this Krishna is not his friend as he thought. He's all all pervading Brahman. He didn't realize him as a limited Brahman ( of form ). He realized that he's the origin and support of all, who's holded a form of Krishna through his Maya.[ In Gita Krishna mentions his origin by saying I appear in human form through Maya]. Even common people understand that all-pervading can't be a limited form.

  8. #8
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    Re: Did Krishna give up his body?

    Pranam

    Quote Originally Posted by hinduism♥krishna View Post
    Before his realisation, Arjuna used to think him as his friend. But after seeing the Vishwarupa Arjuna realized that this Krishna is not his friend as he thought. He's all all pervading Brahman. He didn't realize him as a limited Brahman ( of form ). He realized that he's the origin and support of all, who's holded a form of Krishna through his Maya.[ In Gita Krishna mentions his origin by saying I appear in human form through Maya]. Even common people understand that all-pervading can't be a limited form.

    Presenting as so obvious even to a common man, lets not burry the simple realisation of Arjun "purusam sasvatam divyam "

    Let's not super impose our human limitation on the divyam form of Krishna.

    Ever heard of energy and energetic!

    Arjun may have been overwhelmed by Krishna's opulence yet he was only satisfied when he saw his real form

    11.51

    TRANSLATION

    When Arjuna thus saw Krsna in His original form, he said: Seeing this humanlike form, so very beautiful, my mind is now pacified and I am restored to my original nature.

    And let's not forget what Krishna says about his friendship to Arjun-
    11.52
    sri-bhagavan uvaca
    su-durdarsam idam rupam
    drstavan asi yan mama
    deva apy asya rupasya
    nityam darsana-kanksinah


    TRANSLATION

    The Blessed Lord said: My dear Arjuna, the form which you are now seeing is very difficult to behold. Even the Devas are ever seeking the opportunity to see this form which is so dear.

    TEXT 53

    naham vedair na tapasa
    na danena na cejyaya
    sakya evam-vidho drastum
    drstavan asi mam yatha

    The form which you are seeing with your transcendental eyes cannot be understood simply by studying the Vedas, nor by undergoing serious penances, nor by charity, nor by worship. It is not by these means that one can see Me as I am.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  9. #9
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    Re: Did Krishna give up his body?

    PranAm..

    There's a difference of perception. You choose a literal way and I choose slightly literal way. For me Krishna is Brahman but not the Krishna's form. This is what I call knowing Shri Krishna as omnipresent Brahman. I don't see him as a personal Brahman limited by a form of Human.

    Actually I see this subject by a common sense. Upanishads thousands of times say ' Om OM alone is Brahman. Does any person having some good intellect interprete that the syllable of OM itself is Brahman? I think most people will say NO. In the same way when Krishna is called as Brahman in Shastra, it doesn't imply that Krishna's form itself is Brahman? Bhagavad Gita 7.24, " Unintelligents think me who is unmanifested, as having a tainted form. Thry don't know my supreme nature (Brahma)."

    They try to measure Krishna who is limitless and formless .

    Hari Govinda
    Last edited by hinduism♥krishna; 14 July 2014 at 03:49 AM.
    Hari On!

  10. #10

    Re: Did Krishna give up his body?

    Dandavat Pranams hinduism♥krishna,

    From the Bhakti point of view we take this verse into consideration.

    janma karma (ca) me divyam
    (evaṁ) yo vetti tattvataḥ
    tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma
    naiti mām eti kaunteya
    [Bg. 4.9]
    Lord Kṛṣṇa says that "The process of My birth and the process of My activities, they are all transcendental." And anyone who can understand the transcendental activities, appearance, disappearance of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then the result is that tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. The result is that anyone who understands these transcendental activities of the Supreme Lord, tattvataḥ, in truth, the result is that he becomes a liberated person.

    We consider everything that Krsna does is Lila, all His Lila is transcendental, his name, form and activities are transcendental beyond the scope of the senses. So the important point is to understand krsna Lila, He chose to leave the world this way. He bled so this means that his form on this earth is some how different from his original nature, nirguna brahman?

    For the Krsna Bhakta this is amusing, krsna can be anything and can do anything, if he chooses to bleed in his pastimes to increase the salve of prem in the heart of the devotee then He will bleed.

    He is the source and the master of all energies and potencies, he is nirguna Brahman and saguna Brahman simultaneously.

    From this I am sure can come a philosophical inquest, and different schools of thought have developed, advaita and dvaita, for me both are true, both can reflect aspects of the absolute truth. But I do find the middle view of balance more attractive and reasonable, Krsna is one and inconceivable different from all things, this is the importance of understanding krsna Lila, dry philosophical speculation and logic is limited, unless one has a deep insight into the pastimes of the Lord the purports will not be revealed with true jnana.


    hinduism♥krishna

    For me Krishna is Brahman but not the Krishna's form. This is what I call knowing Shri Krishna as omnipresent Brahman. I don't see him as a personal Brahman limited by a form of Human.
    Because our form is limited we project that idea on the transcendent truth. My body is limited, my body is form, the ultimate truth is unlimited, therefore form is not transcendent.

    If you take that thought and then add some meditation on unlimited, then form can be unlimited.

    Its extremely simple.

    Ys

    Md

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