Page 8 of 12 FirstFirst ... 456789101112 LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 113

Thread: Gaudiya Vaishnava Dharma - The goal of life

  1. #71
    Join Date
    March 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Age
    64
    Posts
    343
    Rep Power
    222

    Re: Gaudiya Vaishnava Dharma - The goal of life

    Madhya 8.192-194

    yebā 'prema-vilāsa-vivarta' eka haya
    tāhā śuni' tomāra sukha haya, ki nā haya


    However there is a topic about the perturbation of amorous pastimes - yebā haya eka vivarta vilāsa
    Hear about it, you'll enjoy it or maybe not - śuni tomāra tāhā tomāra sukha haya ki nā haya

    eta bali' āpana-kṛta gīta eka gāhila
    preme prabhu sva-haste tāńra mukha ācchādila


    Having said that (Raya Ramananda) (began) to sing a song composed by himself - eta bali'gāhila Apan-gita eka krta
    The Lord (Sri Caitanya) (led) by divine love (put His) hand over (his) mouth covering it - prabhu preme sva haste mukha ācchādila

    pahilehi rāga nayana-bhańge bhela
    anudina bāḍhala, avadhi nā gela
    nā so ramaṇa, nā hāma ramaṇī
    duńhu-mana manobhava peṣala jāni'
    e sakhi, se-saba prema-kāhinī
    kānu-ṭhāme kahabi vichurala jāni'
    nā khońjaluń dūtī, nā khońjaluń ān
    duńhukeri milane madhya ta pāńca-bāṇa
    ab sohi virāga, tuńhu bheli dūtī
    su-purukha-premaki aichana rīti


    At first it was the attraction due to eyesights - pahilehi raga nayana-bhang bhela
    And each day has increased without limit - anu-na dina bāḍhala avadhi gela
    He, the Enjoyer, and I, the Enjoyed, are not two minds - nā so ramaṇa nā hāma ramaṇī duńhu-mana
    Know that the (common) mental state has joined us - - jāni bhava manaḥ peṣala
    Before we have met, we have not been sought by any messenger - ṭhāme milane nā duńhukeri khońjaluń nā dūtī
    You will say, you know it - kahabi jāni
    Dear friend, Krishna forgot all these - e sakhi kānu vichurala se-saba
    Indeed someone else sought us: the five (Cupid's) flower arrows - ta ān khońjaluń pāńca-bāṇa
    Now in the midst of separation be the messenger of love affairs - ab madhya sohi virāga tuńhu bheli dūtī kāhinī prema
    This is the result of one who loves a great person - aichana rīti premaki su-purukha
    tadetadAtAravilochanasri / sambhAvitASeza vinamragarvam
    muhur murArer madhurAdharoztham / mukhAmbujam chumbati mAnasam me

    kRSNa karNamRtam 85

  2. #72
    Join Date
    March 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Age
    64
    Posts
    343
    Rep Power
    222

    Re: Gaudiya Vaishnava Dharma - The goal of life

    Madhya 8.195-196

    rādhāyā bhavataś ca citta-jatunī svedair vilāpya kramād
    yuñjann adri-nikuñja-kuñjara-pate nirdhūta-bheda-bhramam
    citrāya svayam anvarañjayad iha brahmāṇḍa-harmyodare
    bhūyobhir nava-rāga-hińgula-bharaiḥ śṛńgāra-kāruḥ kṛtī

    Oh Creator of the Universe (Krishna), (you are) like a king of elephants - kāruḥ brahmāṇḍa pate kuñjara
    (during) the lovemaking in the woods of Govardhan (hill)- yuñjan śṛńgāra nikuñja adri
    you are expert in. - kṛtī

    Radhas sweat and yours - svedaiḥ rādhāyāḥ as bhavataḥ
    Gradually melted (your) hearts as shellac - vilāpya kramāt citta-jatunī
    colored in deep red - anvarañjayat hińgula-bharaiḥ
    completely removing the illusion (that you were) two (different entities) - nirdhūta bhramam bheda
    Through various means you increased the wonder - bhūyobhiḥ citrāya
    (introducing) by yourself a new kind of amorous love in the palace of the world - svayam nava-rāga harmya-udare iha

    Tika:
    This verse from Ujjvala nīlamaṇ 14.155 by Srila Rupa-i Gosvāmī talkes about Radhas love.

    prabhu kahe, — 'sādhya-vastura avadhi' ei haya
    tomāra prasāde ihā jāniluń niścaya

    The Lord said, "This is the (top) limit of the purpose (of life) - prabhu kahe ei haya avadhi sādhya-vastura
    By Your mercy I understand this conclusion" - tomāra prasāde jāniluń ihā niścaya

    Tika:
    Thus the goal of life should be to love Krishna with a love like Radhas.
    As long as we cannot become Radha, to atain this goal is possible only if we become one in heart with Radha, becoming Her girlfriend - Sakhi - and (or) an intimate servant - Manjari.
    tadetadAtAravilochanasri / sambhAvitASeza vinamragarvam
    muhur murArer madhurAdharoztham / mukhAmbujam chumbati mAnasam me

    kRSNa karNamRtam 85

  3. #73

    Re: Gaudiya Vaishnava Dharma - The goal of life

    Quote Originally Posted by anadi View Post
    Tika:
    Thus the goal of life should be to love Krishna with a love like Radhas.
    As long as we cannot become Radha, to atain this goal is possible only if we become one in heart with Radha, becoming Her girlfriend - Sakhi - and (or) an intimate servant - Manjari.
    As long as we cannot be Radha we become Her girlfriend
    As long as we cannot be the girlfriend (say Lalita) we become the girlfriend's servant/diciple
    As long as we cannot become one of the servants of Lalita in Golok, we become servant of the servant
    Sure Lalita's servant will have a servant already in Golok ? So we cannot be her (as she is nitya siddha)
    As long as we cannot be servant of servant of girlfriend of Radha we become servant of servant of servant of girlfriend of Radha
    I am sure there must be a servant of that servant already in Golok (nitya siddha)
    As long as we cannot be the servant of servant of servant of girlfriend of Radha we become servant of servant of servant of servant of girlfriend of Radha

    We get so busy being servant of servant of servant of servant of servant of servant of servant of servant of .............

    that we forget that KrushNa had given me laddoos to distribute to the world, and ignore His repeated request full of sweetness, compassion and LOVE : "Be My Radha"

    If one claims that they can become the servant of servant of girlfriend of Radha, then they are actually replacing an entity in Golok. Those entities are expansions of the hladini shakti, Radha, and not jivas like us. In which case a jiva can potentially be Radha if KrushNa so wishes.

    If this cannot be, then neither can we be the girlfriend/manjari of Radha - since they are not ordinary jivas like us either.

    If that verse from Priti sandarbha holds (71/74 whatever) , then jiva will eventually (perhaps after many births) find out she is Radha IF KrushNa wants her to be.

    ----
    The ONLY purpose of becoming a sakhi or manjari is selfless loving service - giving KrushNa to another. Bringing KrushNa and Radha together. The sakhis, and Radha included, are always trying to bring happiness to the other sakhi. Of Course the most selfless in all this is Shri KrushNa Himself, as He is doing this just for His devotees. He is complete.

    Now the qn is - where does the selflessness end ? Where is the line drawn ? Saying I am Lalita or Vishakha or Rupa Manjari or even dasi of Rupa Manjari is selfless only to a certain extent, because saying i want that particular exhalted service is again selfish.

    Radhe's veil is endless, Her veil becomes the blanket for a child of RAdhikA. Just as a mother puts a child to sleep, looks around, no blanket, so she makes her veil the blanket.

    _/\_ praNAm
    Last edited by smaranam; 16 September 2011 at 09:33 AM.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  4. #74
    Join Date
    March 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Age
    64
    Posts
    343
    Rep Power
    222

    Re: Gaudiya Vaishnava Dharma - The goal of life

    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam View Post
    As long as we cannot be Radha we become Her girlfriend
    As long as we cannot be the girlfriend (say Lalita) we become the girlfriend's servant/diciple
    Dandavat,

    Do you have any information, which says that
    - Radha cannot have more sakhis than she already has?
    - only Her direct expansions may be Her girlfriends?

    I wish to become a girlfriend - sakhi (in the mood of a heroine) and at the same time a manjari (an intimate servant) of Radha,
    like Her younger sister - Ananga Manjari;
    I don't know any interdiction in this connection.

    The goal of the sadhana is to attain prema.
    What kind of prema?

    The servant mood is most laudable,
    but one should not forget that the paramount goal of a gaudiya vaishnava is to attain the state of
    loving Krishna in the erotic mood; this should be the sthayi-bhava – the dominant mood.

    Thank you for your answer.
    Last edited by anadi; 12 September 2011 at 12:09 AM.
    tadetadAtAravilochanasri / sambhAvitASeza vinamragarvam
    muhur murArer madhurAdharoztham / mukhAmbujam chumbati mAnasam me

    kRSNa karNamRtam 85

  5. #75

    Re: Gaudiya Vaishnava Dharma - The goal of life

    Quote Originally Posted by anadi View Post
    Dandavat,

    Do you have any information, which says that
    - Radha cannot have more sakhis than she already has?
    - only Her direct expansions may be Her girlfriends?

    I wish to become a girlfriend - sakhi (in the mood of a heroine) and at the same time a manjari (an intimate servant) of Radha,
    like Her younger sister - Ananga Manjari;
    I don't know any interdiction in this connection.
    praNAm

    According to me, a devotee can have a direct relationship with KrushNa in any of the four ras - dasya sakhya vatsalya madhurya AS LONG AS Shri KrushNa drives the relationship. ShAstra does not and cannot deny a direct relationship with prANanAth MadhusUdan in one of the four ras if HE wants to be in a direct relationship with the devotee. This is irrespective of svakiya/parkiya dwaraka/ golok-vrundavan/ saaket / vaikuNTha etc.

    Topmost ShAstra being Shri KrushNa's own transcendental words :

    BG 18.65 man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māḿ namaskuru mām evaiṣyasi satyaḿ te pratijāne priyo 'si me
    Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend.

    and many such others - BG 10.9.10,11
    BG 10.9 mac-cittā mad-gata-prāṇā bodhayantaḥ parasparam kathayantaś ca māḿ nityaḿ tuṣyanti ca ramanti ca
    BG 10.10 teṣāḿ satata-yuktānāḿ bhajatāḿ prīti-pūrvakam dadāmi buddhi-yogaḿ taḿ yena mām upayānti te
    ________________

    Now, if Vraja-mandal is brought in, then words of Gaudiya VaishNav Guru and Sadhu and Lord Chaitanya come into picture.

    In your case, would it not be as simple as "following in the footsteps of Ananga manjari" ? I think it is a very noble aspiration.

    A few qns on GV literature: I do understand that the bottom line is for the sakhis to bring their priya sakhi (nayika, Radha) to KrushNa and therein lies the difference betN prema and kAma - "The gopīs derive more transcendental pleasure from indirectly engaging other gopīs in the service of Kṛṣṇa than from engaging in His service themselves. That is the difference between material lust and love of Godhead. (CC Madhya 8.215 purport, SP)" Fair enough.

    However, such statements for instance:

    Shrila PrabhupAd's Purport to Chaitanya CharitrAmrut Madhya Lila 8.204-205:

    One should not be misled by mental concoctions, supposing his material body to be perfect and deeming oneself a sakhī. This is something like ahańgrahopāsanā, that is, a Māyāvādī's worship of his own body as the Supreme. Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī has cautioned mundaners to abstain from such conceptions. He also warns that thinking oneself one of the associates of the Supreme without following in the footsteps of the gopīs is as offensive as thinking oneself the Supreme. Such thinking is an aparādha. One has to practice living in Vṛndāvana by hearing about the talks of the gopīs with Kṛṣṇa. However, one should not consider himself a gopī, for this is offensive.

    ---
    Can another person decide whether KrushNa is a devotee's mental concoction ?
    Is it necessarily true that KrushNa will never walk up to someone who is still in the material guNas ?
    Also, do all madhurya ras relationships imply "sakhi" ? Or is this OK in Dwarka ?
    "Following in the footsteps" is a vague instruction. To what extent ?
    Doesn't this go out of the window if KrushNa takes charge of the devotee ?

    Is any of this going to change what i am to Him already ? BEFORE even stumbling across the G in Gaudiya VaishNav ? Of course not. Svarup is svarup. Given and driven by KrushNa.

    Hare KrushNa _/\_
    Last edited by smaranam; 14 September 2011 at 11:00 AM.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  6. #76

    Re: Gaudiya Vaishnava Dharma - The goal of life

    Quote Originally Posted by anadi View Post
    The goal of the sadhana is to attain prema.
    What kind of prema?

    The servant mood is most laudable,
    but one should not forget that the paramount goal of a gaudiya vaishnava is to attain the state of
    [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]loving Krishna
    That is good to know, since the msg mostly passed around seems otherwise. I am not saying that we should be predominantly in the "servant of servant of nth servant" mood. On the contrary, i was making a case as to how the "servant of servant of" logic is equally not applicable, if our own one-on-one relationship with KRshNa, either of servitude, friendship, parental or conjugal (while maintaining "lower than a blade of grass") is not OK. Also, in the post "you" meant "one". i wasn't addressing particularly you.

    -------

    I am done with this - i.e. going in circles in this external logic and back to Shri KrushNa's nest - where i belong. Enough is enough - and my KAnhA overrides all this.

    BG 18.66 sarva-dharmān parityajya
    mām ekaḿ śaraṇaḿ vraja
    ahaḿ tvāḿ sarva-pāpebhyo
    mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ


    Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear.

    Supplemented by Lord Chaitanya's instruction: 1. Go to your KrushNa...
    2. Austerities have to be done, beta.

    (There She is - my karuNAmayi Radhe in KrushNa-Chaitanya form.)

    So, "sadhana has to be done, but don't worry about svarUp" was His/Her message.

    Hare KrushNa

    _/\_
    Last edited by smaranam; 23 October 2011 at 09:11 AM.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  7. #77
    Join Date
    March 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Age
    64
    Posts
    343
    Rep Power
    222

    Re: Gaudiya Vaishnava Dharma - The goal of life

    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam View Post
    According to me, a devotee can have a direct relationship with KrushNa in any of the four ras - dasya sakhya vatsalya madhurya AS LONG AS Shri KrushNa drives the relationship. _
    Dandavat,
    very nice post, and very nice discussion mood.
    You gave also many quotes, very nice.
    I don't think that only according to you "a devotee can have a direct relationship with KrushNa in any of the four ras" al long as Krishna Himself says that:
    ye yathā māḿ prapadyante - all according to (the way) they took Me as shelter
    certainly in the same way I worship them - eva tathā aham bhajāmy tan

    Krishna is bound by the wish of the devotee to reciprocate accordingly.
    He is the true cause for the fullfilment of the wishes of all living beings in all the worlds.

    The driving force is the wish of the devotee. The more powerful this wish is, the more fast the wish will become true. The power of this wish is reflected in one's sadhana.

    Madhya 8.197

    'sādhya-vastu' 'sādhana' vinu keha nāhi pāya
    kṛpā kari' kaha, rāya, pābāra upāya

    (Sri Caitanya said) :
    The purpose of life cannot be achieved without (spiritual) practice -sādhya-vastu nāhi pāya vinu sādhana
    Raya have mercy with me and explain the means by which one reaches (the goal life) - rāya kṛpā kari' kaha pābāra upāya
    Without it no one can reach it- keha nāhi pāya

    Tika:
    ādhanaughair anāsańgair
    alabhyā su-cirād api
    hariṇā cāśv adeyeti
    dvidhā sā syāt su-durlabhā (Madhya 24.172)

    By masses of practice without attachment - oghaiḥ sādhana anāsańgaiḥ
    even after a considerable duration of time su-cirāt api (one will not attain prema)
    also one is considered by the Lord unfit to be given (that prema) soon - ca hariṇā adeyā āśu
    thus for this two reasons is difficult to obtain (it) - iti dvidhā sā syāt very su-durlabhā.

    The fact that Mahaprabhu speaks about the appearance of prema, can be seen in the previous vers CC 2.24.171:

    ca-śabda api-arthe, 'api' — avadhāraṇe
    yatnāgraha vinā bhakti nā janmāya preme

    In Bhakti-sandarbha 286, is spoken about the meditation on one's siddha-deha (spiritual body):

    bhUta-zuddhir nijAbhilaSita-bhagavat-sevaupayika-tat-pArSada-deha-bhAvana-paryantaiva tat-sevaika-puruSArthibhiH kAryA nijAnukUlyAt | evaM yatra yatrAtmano nijAbhISTa-devatA-rUpatvena cintanaM vidhIyate, tatra tatraiva pArSadatve grahaNaM bhAvyam.

    "Though there are many kinds of bhuta-suddhi, its ultimate form is to think of oneself in a body suitable for serving the Lord in accordance with one's wishes.
    This is the practice that those who desire only service to the Lord should engage in.
    Thus, in whatever particular form or situation they think of their ista-devata, they should identify themselves as a corresponding associate of the Lord present in the same place." ("bhAvyam" indicating that it must be done, that it is not optional.)

    Srila Vishwanath Cakravarti identifies AsaGga with the stage of Asakti in the Adau zraddhA verse. He quotes BRS 1.3.8 to support the argument that if you practice devotion with attachment, then you will attain the stage of bhAva.

    In Caitanya Caritamrita 1.8.16 it is said:

    bahu janma kare yadi śravaṇa, kīrtana
    tabu ta' nā pāya kṛṣṇa-pade prema-dhana

    Even if one practice hearing and chanting (the holy name) for many lifetimes -yadi kare śravaṇa kīrtana bahu janma
    in spite of that still one doesn't get -ta' tabu nā pāya-
    the treasure of love at the lotusfeet of Krishna -prema-dhana pade kṛṣṇa

    In other words, the casual bhakti performed by inexperienced bhaktas will not be potent enough to produce the desired result; or as Krishna Das Kaviraja says

    yatnāgraha vinā bhakti nā janmāya preme

    Without great attention and eagerness bhakti-practice will not give birth to divine love - vinā yatna graha bhakti-sadhan nā janmāya preme.
    Last edited by anadi; 12 September 2011 at 01:43 PM.
    tadetadAtAravilochanasri / sambhAvitASeza vinamragarvam
    muhur murArer madhurAdharoztham / mukhAmbujam chumbati mAnasam me

    kRSNa karNamRtam 85

  8. #78

    Re: Gaudiya Vaishnava Dharma - The goal of life

    Namaste Anadiji

    Thank you very much for the quotes picked from the vast Gaudiya literature. Like CC, Bhakti Sandarbha and BRS.
    And thank you for this thread.

    praNAm _/\_
    Hare KrushNa
    Last edited by smaranam; 23 October 2011 at 09:05 AM.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  9. #79
    Join Date
    March 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Age
    64
    Posts
    343
    Rep Power
    222

    Re: Gaudiya Vaishnava Dharma - The goal of life

    Dandavat smaranamji,
    This thread was written for persons like you.
    tadetadAtAravilochanasri / sambhAvitASeza vinamragarvam
    muhur murArer madhurAdharoztham / mukhAmbujam chumbati mAnasam me

    kRSNa karNamRtam 85

  10. #80
    Join Date
    March 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Age
    64
    Posts
    343
    Rep Power
    222

    Re: Gaudiya Vaishnava Dharma - The goal of life

    Madhya 8.198 - 202

    rāya kahe, — yei kahāo, sei kahi vāṇī
    ki kahiye bhāla-manda, kichui nā jāni


    Ramananda Raya replied: Whatever you make me say, that message I utter - rāya kahe yei kahāo sei vāṇī kahi
    I do not know if what I say is right or wrong - kichui nā jāni ki kahiye bhāla-manda

    tribhuvana-madhye aiche haya kon dhīra
    ye tomāra māyā-nāṭe ha-ibeka sthira


    Who in the three worlds, is as wise - kon tri-bhuvana-madhye haya dhīra
    to remain calm while you use your illusory energy maya - ha-ibeka ye sthira aiche tomāra nāṭe māyā

    mora mukhe vaktā tumi, tumi hao śrotā
    atyanta rahasya, śuna, sādhanera kathā


    You're the one who speaks through my mouth and you're the one who listens - tumi vaktā mora mukhe tumi hao śrotā
    Listen about the spiritual practice, which is most mysterios - śuna kathā sādhanera atyanta rahasya

    rādhā-kṛṣṇera līlā ei ati gūḍhatara
    dāsya-vātsalyādi-bhāve nā haya gocara


    The pastimes of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa are very confidential - rādhā-kṛṣṇera līlā ei ati gūḍhatara
    They cannot be appreciated - nā haya gocara
    through the moods of servitude, fraternity or parental affection - bhāve dāsya vātsalya-ādi.

    sabe eka sakhī-gaṇera ihāń adhikāra
    sakhī haite haya ei līlāra vistāra


    Only the family of girlfriends (of Radha) alone has this qualification - sabe gaṇera sakhī eka ihāń adhikāra
    The girlfriends (of Radha) are the ones that make the pastimes to be expanded- sakhī haite haya ei līlāra vistāra
    tadetadAtAravilochanasri / sambhAvitASeza vinamragarvam
    muhur murArer madhurAdharoztham / mukhAmbujam chumbati mAnasam me

    kRSNa karNamRtam 85

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •