Measuring growth ...

[Indiaspirituality Amrut]

Originally Posted by yajvan

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

Another measure is śauca or cleanliness. Sure being clean in body and clothes is one idea. Yet it spills into another dimension of thinking and emotions. How often do ill feelings come to one's mind ? How often does one put their attention on higher ideals and higher learning.

So, this śauca takes on different aspects as one grows.

praṇām

Namaste,

Yes it does. Inner purity is necessary. Outward purity is a poor replica of it. Definitions and meaning changes as one progresses.

Initially, I was told to be moderate in everything. So that implied to meditation too. Everything should be balanced. Later I got another definition of balance. Maya has 3 gunas, so work for 8 hours, meditate for 8 hours and sleep for 8 hours. He wanted me to meditate more. Initially, I was too hard with myself. So he slowed me down.

Purity increases as Sattva Guna increases. satva guna increases by doing sattvik karma. To go beyond Sattva Guna (as Gunas are dosha), you have to take refuge (adhara) in the one who is above Guna and Maya. It's none other than God / Brahman. Once you are merged in God, you are the purest and maun is the only closest expression that can define / describe this state of Self Realization (Atma Sthiti)

So one has to go beyond Gunas as well, as sattva guna is attached to happiness, daya, tyaga, which has no place in atma sthiti, since no one else than you exist.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality

Purity increases as Sattva Guna increases. satva guna increases by doing sattvik karma. To go beyond Sattva Guna (as Gunas are dosha), you have to take refuge (adhara) in the one who is above Guna and Maya. It's none other than God / Brahman. Once you are merged in God, you are the purest and maun is the only closest expression that can define / describe this state of Self Realization (Atma Sthiti)

So one has to go beyond Gunas as well, as sattva guna is attached to happiness, daya, tyaga, which has no place in atma sthiti, since no one else than you exist.

I see what you say, yet there is a more refined view of what you offer. Not opposing, just more subtler (aṇu). If one does action (karman) no matter what action, all 3 guna-s are there, otherwise action cannot take place. So, one needs to go beyond the 3 guna-s , as
kṛṣṇa-jī rightly informs us in the bhāgavad gītā ( 2, 45th śloka ).

So how does one infuse sattva ? If this definition sattva is not only purity but is essence, it is being itself. We need to transcend the exiting levels of the guna-s and arrive at this level of purity. By doing this, more and more sattva become part of our active nature, our behavior. This sets the satage over time to come to that level which will allow us the purity to come to Self-realization, then on to knowing the Supreme as a personal relationship. We are brought there step by step. Yet it starts with this infusion .

How does one do this ? I can think of 112 ways (yuktistha).

praṇām

[AmIHindu]

Originally Posted by yajvan

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

If I cared to measure my physical growth, . Also, one's intellectual growth can be measured in multiple ways e.g. comprehension, skills ability, academic progress and the like . Yet what of one's spiritual growth ?
praṇām

We are discussing growth, spiritual growth. Like we have physical growth, intellectual growth and spiritual growth.

But we also need to understand tools employed to grow.
For physical growth, jogging, running, exercise etc.
For intellectual growth, reading, puzzles solving etc.
For spiritual growth, spiritual practices depending on one's choice.

So when we grow in our spirituality we like to do more and more of that spiritual practices and day in day out that spiritual practice becomes more and more dense. This is also one sign that we are on the right way of spiritual path.

[Indiaspirituality Amrut]

Originally Posted by yajvan

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté



I see what you say, yet there is a more refined view of what you offer. Not opposing, just more subtler (aṇu). If one does action (karman) no matter what action, all 3 guna-s are there, otherwise action cannot take place. So, one needs to go beyond the 3 guna-s , as
kṛṣṇa-jī rightly informs us in the bhāgavad gītā ( 2, 45th śloka ).

So how does one infuse sattva ? If this definition sattva is not only purity but is essence, it is being itself. We need to transcend the exiting levels of the guna-s and arrive at this level of purity. By doing this, more and more sattva become part of our active nature, our behavior. This sets the satage over time to come to that level which will allow us the purity to come to Self-realization, then on to knowing the Supreme as a personal relationship. We are brought there step by step. Yet it starts with this infusion .

How does one do this ? I can think of 112 ways (yuktistha).

praṇām

Namaste,

What you say is indeed true. Without all 3 gunas one cannot do anything. It depends upon which guna has triggered an action if an action is trigged by sattvik quality, then it helps reduce ego and or is for good of all. One acts due to rajas guna but the triggering force is sattva, say service to humanity or visiting place of pilgrimage.

In general predominant Guna (overall in a person or chitta) and or Predominent or amost active at a particular time influences ones decision or understanding or interpretation or anything. Say we feel a discourse insightful (at that time, sattva guna was more active) after leaving the places, rajas becomes predomenant and one starts to think, it's just philosophy (ego does not allow one to bend) - Faith fluctuates. When sleeping one is in tamas guna. When doing activity in is in Rajas. All are needed, but more the sattva Guna and the more it says predominant the better it is for spiritual progress.

When one goes beyond Guna, there is no individual identity, it's just pure consciousness / Atman / Brahman. When satva guna is also saturated (i.e. reaches charam seema), tyaga happens, actions reduces.

How to increase sattva Guna depends upon any of the 112 ways
Afterall we are conerned with reaching our destination i.e. Self Realization, no matter how we reach it i.e. whichever path we follow.

whether one consciously tries to increases satva guna or it simply happens as a part of progress makes no diference, as all (correct ) approaches lead one to same destination.

__/\__

Aum

IS

[Indiaspirituality Amrut]

@AmIHindu

+1, True very true.

But it is also true that efforts decreases and ananda & peace increases.

[AmIHindu]

Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality

@AmIHindu

+1, True very true.

But it is also true that efforts decreases and ananda & peace increases.

Efforts decreases ? I think struggle decreases, seeker is now more established in thehis spiritual practices so he has less problem getting in the spiritual practice. Before it takes some time, as mind is not altogether under control but after some period of time of constant practice, he gets little, very little success in his practice.

[Indiaspirituality Amrut]

Originally Posted by AmIHindu

Efforts decreases ? I think struggle decreases, seeker is now more established in thehis spiritual practices so he has less problem getting in the spiritual practice. Before it takes some time, as mind is not altogether under control but after some period of time of constant practice, he gets little, very little success in his practice.

Struggle is a better word, nice catch. Struggle decreases. But Even effort decreases as all you have to do is to sit. That's the only effort. Mind does not becomes extrovert. You do not have to remind yourself to come meditate in free time, or to wake up early. All you have to do is just sit and since purified mind does not give any importance to world, so only god is left, there is no mental agitation. So struggle and effort decreases.

Personally, I have also observed that effort also decreases. I even, have felt that effort decreases. All you have to do is to sit, which is easy.

Sri Ramakrishna said that, once the sailor align your boat in the direction of wind, then he sits and smokes. Wind will carry the boat, without the effort of sailor. There was initial struggle and an effort, now where is the effort.

God takes control. thoughts pop-up, mantra takes over thought, thought disappear and then even mantra silences and you enter into blank state. You are not doing anything no effort, all that is happening is happening spontaneously (sahaj). Someone is taking control over your mind. Who is it? It's none other than God, since you are surrendered to God. All you have to do is to sit and when ever you find free time, surrender. Mantra will continue.

By limited efforts, one cannot have unlimited result - Swami Tadrupanand

Result is Jnana. Everything just happens. You heart is sucked in source of mantra. It happens to a very pure mind. Life changes. You become extremely neutral. This is the reason why we are told to be neutral it is one of shatsampatti - Titiksha. you constantly feel bliss and peace flowing through you. You are filled with bliss, sometimes, bliss overflows from heart.

Just a personal opinion.

Aum

Indiaspirituality

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam
i am entering the thread in full flow, if the point has already been made forgive the intrusion.

who better to measure the growth, the spiritual growth then the self but then the ego also may take over, in this instance there is a story of Naradji narrated in Tulsidas Ramayan how he thought he had overcome the lust.
Point is can we trust ourself?

Control over our senses, lust anger and greed would be a major yard stick.
Just as a lamp in the windless does not waver, so as we remain steady in our resolve, in our journey unaffected by the ravages of sansar(world).

Arjun posed a similar question to Lord Krishna BG2.54
arjuna uvaca
sthita-prajnasya ka bhasa
samadhi-sthasya kesava
sthita-dhih kim prabhaseta
kim asita vrajeta kim

Arjuna said: O Krishna, what is the mark of a person whose Prajna is steady and merged in superconscious state? How does a person of steady Prajna speak? How does such a person sit and walk?

Lord Krishna says
A person whose mind is unperturbed by sorrow, who does not crave pleasures, and who is free from attachment, fear, and anger; such a person is called a sage of steady Prajna. (2.56)

Bhagvat Gita is full of wisdom that gives us the gauge by which we can measure our growth.

Jai Shree Krishna

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad

Arjuna said: O Krishna, what is the mark of a person whose Prajna is steady and merged in superconscious state? How does a person of steady Prajna speak? How does such a person sit and walk?

Lord Krishna says
A person whose mind is unperturbed by sorrow, who does not crave pleasures, and who is free from attachment, fear, and anger; such a person is called a sage of steady Prajna. (2.56)

What you offer is true... yet one must be aware that what kṛṣṇa-jī offers us here, is the one that has arrived, that is no longer 'work in process'. Hence this person's progress has come to fruition.

Just as a person taking a train from point A to B; One can point out the milestones, you will see lake, this bridge, this valley. Yet once the person arrives at his/her destination, all those milestones have fulfilled their purpose - informing the traveler he/she was going on the right train and in the proper direction.

praṇām