The HINDU DHARMA FORUMS for discussion of Sanatana Dharma, Hindu Religion and Indian Culture. [link to HDF home]  

Go Back   Hindu Dharma Forums > Sanatana Dharma > Yoga
Join Us! Rules/FAQ Library Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Yoga Discuss Yoga traditions here.

Dangerous Mantra Meditation?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 19 February 2012, 10:08 AM
MahaHrada MahaHrada is offline
icchAshaktitamAkUmarI
 
Join Date: November 2007
Age: 58
Posts: 855
MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !
Reputation: 25129
Re: Dangerous Mantra Meditation?

Quote:
I have heard that the Shri Meru is prohibited to keep for the uninitiated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sm78 View Post
I have heard this, and there may be some support in books (meru is a later concept anyway - tantras only talked about yantras), but I don't believe it.
It is not that it is prohibited for the uninitiated to use or see Yantras, in my opinion it is the other way around the iniitiated are prohibited to display a diksha -yantra-mandala to outsiders, because a diksha often includes shaktipath by the darshan of the mandala or yantra, and this diksha marks a change from Pravritti to Nivrittimarga, from the outside focus to the inside, from the human body to the divine body. So the first look on the yantra is an important step. This itself has redeeming qualities and is part of the transformation that enables one to profit from these methods. So because looking at the yantra is part of the diksha only a Guru can show you a yantra and transfer shakti by that act, a disciple is not qualified to give diksha, (which includes showing a yantra) only an acharya or Guru should do this. This is also true for Mantras if a qualified Guru writes down a mantra and shows it or says it loud, this can be a diksha, he can do that, other disciples not, if they do it instead their own tapas shakti probably will disperse and is gone. No help done for anyone, everybody looses in the process, thats why these methods are kept secret.

All these rules do not apply to outsiders they can print show or paint yantras, these are simply lines on paper, because rarely a transfer of shakti occurs outside of the parampara
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 19 February 2012, 11:25 AM
yajvan's Avatar
yajvan yajvan is offline
etad vai tat
 
Join Date: September 2006
Age: 62
Posts: 7,041
yajvan has disabled reputation
Reputation: 2233
Re: Dangerous Mantra Meditation?

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

Sometimes one forgets the meaning of mantra... it is man+tra.
  • man = mad which means to stand still
  • mad is rooted in mand and this is to gladden, to shine, be splendid.
  • tra = protecting
  • trai = protect, preserve, defend.
Hence when we deal with the science of mantra it is that which gladdens, protects, makes splended or makes one brillant or shining.

We can see the possibilities when different phonemes (akṣara samudaya) are assembled; the possibilities are:
  • protecting
  • preserving
  • shining
  • gladden
  • make to stand still
  • defend
All these things are possible within a person and within the environment.


praṇām
__________________

शिवतुल्यो जायते॥
__śivatulyo jāyate
____yajvan___
_oṁ śāntiḥ śāntiḥ śāntiḥ

Last edited by yajvan : 19 February 2012 at 11:47 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 19 February 2012, 11:54 AM
sm78's Avatar
sm78 sm78 is offline
here and now
 
Join Date: August 2006
Posts: 1,222
sm78 is surely an avatara !sm78 is surely an avatara !sm78 is surely an avatara !sm78 is surely an avatara !sm78 is surely an avatara !sm78 is surely an avatara !sm78 is surely an avatara !sm78 is surely an avatara !sm78 is surely an avatara !sm78 is surely an avatara !sm78 is surely an avatara !
Reputation: 46225
Re: Dangerous Mantra Meditation?

man
Monier Williams

to think , believe , imagine , suppose , conjecture (मन्ये , I think , methinks , is in later language often inserted in a sentence without affecting the construction ; cf. g. चा*दि and Pa1n2. 4-1 , 106) ;

to regard or consider any one or anything (acc.) as (acc. with or without इव , or adv. , often in -वत् ; in later language also dat. , to express contempt [cf. Pa1n2. 2-3 , 17] , e.g. g. राज्यं तृणय मन्ये , " I value empire at a straw " i.e. I make light of it = लघु √ मन् , and opp. to बहु , or साधु √ मन् , to think much or well of , praise , approve) ib. ;

to think one's self or be thought to be , appear as , pass for (nom. ; also with इव) ib. ;

to be of opinion , think fit or right MBh. Ka1v. &c ;

to agree or be of the same opinion with (acc.) MBh. ;

to set the heart or mind on , honour , esteem (with नौ , disdain) , hope or wish for (acc. or gen.) RV. &c ;

to think of (in prayer &c , either " to remember , meditate on " , or " mention , declare " , or " excogitate , invent ") RV. AV. ;

to perceive , observe , learn , know , understand , comprehend (acc. , Ved. also gen.)

mad-to enjoy bliss etc.

They are different roots. Mantra shares the same root as manas or mind/thought. Generally a guru explains mantra as that which protects(liberates) the mind - manasam trayate. It means a sacred hynm in normal dictionary.

The word mantra is of vedic origin, and there is no mention of satkarmas in vedas nor there is any association of mantra intrinsically with satkarmas, since mantra has been in use and written about much much before satkarma was ever heard of.

There is no mention of application of shatkarma "inside" the person, please let us know if there is a concept like that and where. Mantra sadhana is completely related to the stages of its illumination from para to audible as also the underlying shakti of a mantra. nada and shakti are two ways of using a mantra. mantra sadhana is very advaitic in nature and concept of application/doing(karma) is not meaningful in mantra japa.
__________________
What is Here, is Elsewhere. What is not Here, is Nowhere.

Last edited by sm78 : 19 February 2012 at 10:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 19 February 2012, 12:11 PM
MahaHrada MahaHrada is offline
icchAshaktitamAkUmarI
 
Join Date: November 2007
Age: 58
Posts: 855
MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !
Reputation: 25129
Re: Dangerous Mantra Meditation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sm78 View Post
Generally a guru explains mantra as that which liberates the mind - manasam trayate. It means a sacred hynm in normal dictionary.
Yes agreed, that is the etymology used in the tantras. Mantras should be understood as liberating, otherwise they are without power in Sadhana. Mantras used in shatkarmas are not liberating they are binding, these Mantras are related to ghora (terrible) shaktis not aghora (non terrifying). Therefore generally shatkarma mantras and procedures bind and lead deeper into samsara.

It is said in the srikantheyasamhita:
Mantras without the first letter and the last are barren like the autuum clouds, know that conciousness of the first and last letter is the characteristics of the master.

The first and last letter here mean the first letter of the sanskrit alphabet "a" and the last letter "ha" together this spells A ha m the divine I conciousness. This is the heart of the Mantra which makes it alive. Devoid of the divine I conciousness Mantras are without virya or energy, they lack liberating or redeeming power.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 19 February 2012, 01:54 PM
yajvan's Avatar
yajvan yajvan is offline
etad vai tat
 
Join Date: September 2006
Age: 62
Posts: 7,041
yajvan has disabled reputation
Reputation: 2233
Re: Dangerous Mantra Meditation?

hari o
~~~~~~

namasté

Quote:
Originally Posted by sm78 View Post
man
Monier Williams

to think , believe , imagine , suppose , conjecture (मन्ये , I think , methinks , is in later language often inserted in a sentence without affecting the construction ; cf. g. चा*दि and Pa1n2. 4-1 , 106) ;

to regard or consider any one or anything (acc.) as (acc. with or without इव , or adv. , often in -वत् ; in later language also dat. , to express contempt [cf. Pa1n2. 2-3 , 17] , e.g. g. राज्यं तृणय मन्ये , " I value empire at a straw " i.e. I make light of it = लघु √ मन् , and opp. to बहु , or साधु √ मन् , to think much or well of , praise , approve) ib. ;

to think one's self or be thought to be , appear as , pass for (nom. ; also with इव) ib. ;

to be of opinion , think fit or right MBh. Ka1v. &c ;

to agree or be of the same opinion with (acc.) MBh. ;

to set the heart or mind on , honour , esteem (with नौ , disdain) , hope or wish for (acc. or gen.) RV. &c ;

to think of (in prayer &c , either " to remember , meditate on " , or " mention , declare " , or " excogitate , invent ") RV. AV. ;

to perceive , observe , learn , know , understand , comprehend (acc. , Ved. also gen.)

mad-to enjoy bliss etc.

They are different roots. Mantra shares the same root as manas or mind/thought. Generally a guru explains mantra as that which protects(liberates) the mind - manasam trayate. It means a sacred hynm in normal dictionary.

The word mantra is of vedic origin, and there is no mention of satkarmas in vedas nor there is any association of mantra intrinsically with satkarmas, since mantra has been in use and written about much much before satkarma was ever heard of.

Please don't invent stuff with psuedo punditry and mislead people. There is no mention of application of shatkarma "inside" the person, please let us know if there is a concept like that and where. Mantra sadhana is completely related to the stages of its illumination from para to audible as also the underlying shakti of a mantra. nada and shakti are two ways of using a mantra. mantra sadhana is very advaitic in nature and concept of application/doing(karma) is not meaningful in mantra japa.
First let me offer one idea:
  • 'man' as you offer brings one to manas intellect , intelligence , understanding , perception , sense , conscience , will.
    This too applies to man-tra and many will extend man to manas. You have offered the definition well in your post, thank you.
you mention
Quote:
manasam trayate. It means a sacred hynm in normal dictionary
Yes I agree and is alluded to in my first post , number 2 above...
"Others say each word of the veda is a mantra ( which is true when one understands the word in full) ."

You mention
Quote:
The word mantra is of vedic origin, and there is no mention of satkarmas

Fine, as this has not been my offering and I do not see the connection. This ṣaḍkarma was offered to compare and contrast knowledge. To the best of my recollection I did not connect a force-feeding tube to anyone and ask them to swallow without digesting the idea at hand.
Also, Please do not interpret this response as a request for more information, as I am fine with the knowledge at hand.

You mention
Quote:
Please don't invent stuff with psuedo punditry and mislead people. There is no mention of application of shatkarma "inside" the person, please let us know if there is a concept like that and where. Mantra sadhana is completely related to the stages of its illumination from para to audible as also the underlying shakti of a mantra.
You say there is no mention of ṣaḍkarma inside a person. I am not certain which knowledge you wish to refer to. All things have an external and internal component - whether you wish it to be so or not, I will leave that with you.

You ask me not to 'invent stuff' - There is no invention on my part, just observation, offers and passing on what I know. Yet, thank you for the reminder that my studies need to continue - I am not complete as yet.

Last, for some reason some parts of the last few posts may have irrated some in a small or large way. This knowlege that was offered was to be simple, insightful - for those new to this knowledge. If we wish to go indepth, akṣara-by-akṣara , then it would be best to do that in the uttara folder. Part of the offer is from jyotish, the core of picking the correct sounds; other parts are from mantraśāstra, mālinīvijayottara tantra, and the like.

If one is looking for jalpa¹ with one named yajvan, I do not plan on engaging; others may be more suited for this then me.

If there are any posts that perhaps irritate you in any manner, please feel free to put me on your ignore list, I am fine with it.

praṇām

1. jalpa - a kind of disputation i.e. overbearing reply and disputed rejoinder
__________________

शिवतुल्यो जायते॥
__śivatulyo jāyate
____yajvan___
_oṁ śāntiḥ śāntiḥ śāntiḥ

Last edited by yajvan : 19 February 2012 at 02:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 19 February 2012, 10:39 PM
sm78's Avatar
sm78 sm78 is offline
here and now
 
Join Date: August 2006
Posts: 1,222
sm78 is surely an avatara !sm78 is surely an avatara !sm78 is surely an avatara !sm78 is surely an avatara !sm78 is surely an avatara !sm78 is surely an avatara !sm78 is surely an avatara !sm78 is surely an avatara !sm78 is surely an avatara !sm78 is surely an avatara !sm78 is surely an avatara !
Reputation: 46225
Re: Dangerous Mantra Meditation?

It is a basic question and not about person's ego's and achievements or being sentimental.

I have removed that one line that I also regard as jalpa on my part.
__________________
What is Here, is Elsewhere. What is not Here, is Nowhere.

Last edited by sm78 : 20 February 2012 at 11:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 20 February 2012, 01:36 AM
shian's Avatar
shian shian is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: March 2007
Age: 31
Posts: 821
shian is surely an avatara !shian is surely an avatara !shian is surely an avatara !shian is surely an avatara !shian is surely an avatara !shian is surely an avatara !shian is surely an avatara !shian is surely an avatara !shian is surely an avatara !shian is surely an avatara !shian is surely an avatara !
Reputation: 28059
Re: Dangerous Mantra Meditation?

If we diligently and virya practice Shanti Mantra,

all of karman, like : Vasikaran (harmonization), Paustika (increase wealth and wisdom), Abhicaruka (subjugate our self, subjugate enemies)

will be sampurna (perfect )automaticlly.

will get automaticlly.
__________________

OM. VAJRA. VISHNUYA. SVAHA
OM. VAJRA. GARUDA. CALE CALE. HUM PHAT


OM. AMOGHA VAIROCANA. MAHA-MUDRA. MANI PADMA JVALA PRAVARTTAYA. HUM

Om Saha Nau-Avatu |
Saha Nau Bhunaktu |
Saha Viiryam Karava-Avahai |
Tejasvi Nau-Adhii-Tam-Astu Maa Vidviss-Aavahai |
Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih ||

Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 20 February 2012, 09:34 AM
MahaHrada MahaHrada is offline
icchAshaktitamAkUmarI
 
Join Date: November 2007
Age: 58
Posts: 855
MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !MahaHrada is surely an avatara !
Reputation: 25129
Re: Dangerous Mantra Meditation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sahasranama View Post
They even put these mantras in the yearly panchangas and other astrological publications.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yajvan
Part of the offer is from jyotish
Proffessional astrologers and the "remedies" they offer are the main reason people use mantras for worldly gain, dominion, attraction of woman, destruction of enemies, and other selfish purposes.

It is these people that classify upasana mantras or mantras used in bhakti yoga that is nishkamya Mantras, as if these are also being only part of the shatkarmas. The bad name of tantra as sorcery is partly due to the liberal use of mantra shastra or shatkarmas and the worldly understanding of the subject by those people who serve others and help to fulfill their desires or remedy their sufferings by means of mantras and spells, because they decided to earn their living by being "tantrics" or astrologers.

A bhakta or upasaka should differentiate between Mantras for worldly purposes that are directed against a victim, whose name is most often included in the mantra, or written in diagramms, on dolls etc. or which involves the use of amuletts, kavachas and diverse herbs and substances and are for the purpose of worldly gains or to inflict distress or offer protection (kamya Mantras and astra Mantra) and Mantras used out of devotion or as a part of Upasana. (para mantras).

Only para Mantras are liberating, the others will inevitably bind and drag one further into bondage, so they should only be used to prevent even worse things to happen.Not all kamya mantras are sorcery but tantras that are about the subject like indrajala, kamaratna, yantrachintamani, kalpachintamani, damoddara always contain many mantras that can be used only for evil purposes. So it is most of the time not a good advice to become involved in shatkarmas.

I don´t think that Yajvan is aware of the widespread misuse of mantra shastra and Jyotisha in India, otherwise he would have not included a reference to shatkarmas in his posting.

Last edited by MahaHrada : 20 February 2012 at 09:46 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 21 February 2012, 10:11 PM
devotee's Avatar
devotee devotee is offline
Self Seeker
 
Join Date: December 2007
Age: 53
Posts: 2,754
devotee is surely an avatara !devotee is surely an avatara !devotee is surely an avatara !devotee is surely an avatara !devotee is surely an avatara !devotee is surely an avatara !devotee is surely an avatara !devotee is surely an avatara !devotee is surely an avatara !devotee is surely an avatara !devotee is surely an avatara !
Reputation: 153517
Re: Dangerous Mantra Meditation?

Namaste Kismet,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kismet View Post
So I've been doing japa for over a week with this one mantra 'Aum Kreem Kalikaye Namaha' in an attempt to, shall we say, destroy my own ego.

Since I've begun a number of rather inauspicious things have taken place, which I won't go into. However, I wonder if anyone knows more about this mantra who can inform me specifically how and in what way it is beneficial.

Speaking personally, I find that it resonates with me. However, that may be a quick judgment call, so I welcome any and all input.
You were inclined towards Lord Vishnu. How suddenly you turned towards Mother Goddess KAli ?

You have to be a little careful while using Mantras ... especially the Beej Mantras. This particular mantrA is a beej mantrA due to use of the BeejAkshar "Kreem". Moreover, whenever you are invoking forms of Gods/Goddesses who are Ugra-roopa (of violent nature) ... like Mother Goddess KAli, DurgA, Bhairava etc. ... you have to do it according to the prescribed rituals so as not to invite their anger if you do anything in a wrong way.

Why don't you stick to your chosen deity e.g. Lord Vishnu/Krishna which you can do without any guidance or a Guru ?

OM
__________________
"Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 22 February 2012, 09:29 AM
Kismet's Avatar
Kismet Kismet is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: June 2011
Posts: 345
Kismet is surely an avatara !Kismet is surely an avatara !Kismet is surely an avatara !Kismet is surely an avatara !Kismet is surely an avatara !Kismet is surely an avatara !Kismet is surely an avatara !Kismet is surely an avatara !Kismet is surely an avatara !Kismet is surely an avatara !Kismet is surely an avatara !
Reputation: 27497
Re: Dangerous Mantra Meditation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by devotee View Post
Why don't you stick to your chosen deity e.g. Lord Vishnu/Krishna which you can do without any guidance or a Guru ?

OM
Well, to be honest, I do not know if I am qualified for that form of worship. Do asuras worship Lord Vishnu? I feel that, unless I can better my nature, I do not have the right to worship the deity I see as most high.

I might have it opposite, though, as many of these comments here indicate.
__________________
How can I put this in a sentence? Try next time.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (1 members and 1 guests)
Ekam
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
An exposition on the Maha Mritunjaya Mantra Agnideva Shaiva 10 26 September 2014 11:22 PM
Nilakantha Agnideva Puranas 36 11 May 2009 10:22 PM
Cundi Baghavati shian Buddhism 0 31 May 2008 01:29 AM
chanting cbrahma Vaishnava 25 26 April 2007 01:53 AM
Sanatana Dharma for Kids: Sacred Symbols: AUM saidevo God in Hindu Dharma 1 22 August 2006 05:45 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:18 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Hindu Dharma Forums